|
c1dh3d
The elephant is BACK




Registered: 07/15/08
Posts: 5,229
Loc:
Last seen: 7 months, 17 days
|
Question about small-claims court
#13570663 - 12/01/10 09:58 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
My mom divulged to me tonight that my aunt (her sister) borrow a few thousand dollars 5 years ago, and told her tonight she doesn't want to hear from her again and "will pay her back when she feels like it." Given that out of 5 year of waiting, she has only gotten back $1500, she has decided she is going to sue my Aunt for the other $1500.
Here enlies the problem / my question. My mom does not have a written / signed agreement to pay her back the money, as being it was her sister, she didn't feel that necessary. Here is the following evidence that she has:
- A typed letter from her sister, whining about a bunch of shit, but mentioning the money owed. This letter is both typed, and unsigned (probably completely worthless)
- A photocopy of the check she received for half the payment ($1500), and in the memo portion it states "For: owed balance of $1500"
- Can possibly obtain records of where the check was deposited, but I don't see this as being much use either
What I told her was that she needed some form of admittance of the owed money, signed or not, for at least the sake of evidence. I have heard that recording audio without expressly disclosing to the person that you are recording it for use in court, will result in the said audio admittance being thrown out as evidence.
What I suggested, was to possibly email the aunt, stating something about the money so that she hopefully responds with an admittance of the debt. This would at least have her email / name on it, which I am sure is still very weak, but could any of this add up to a decent case to get a ruling in favor of her case?
Without a written / signed agreement to pay her back, is there any chance in hell of her being in favor of the ruling?
|
Anonymous #1
|
Re: Question about small-claims court [Re: c1dh3d] 1
#13570694 - 12/01/10 10:04 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Judge Judy that shit, man.
|
oldmyco
Perma-5 Mushroom Rating
Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 278
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
|
Re: Question about small-claims court [Re: Anonymous #1]
#13570717 - 12/01/10 10:08 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
family and money issues are tough man. the check she gave her and that was cashed is great evidence.
basically it will go to small claims and they will both plead their case, it will be word vs word, but with that check at least your mother has a fighting chance to win. the judge can indeed decide that your aunt isnt being truthful and rule against her.
if you have other family members, having them pressure your aunt is a good idea. going to court sucks im sure. on a side note, thats a pretty shitty way to pay back your mothers kindness.
-------------------- Deal with it
|
c1dh3d
The elephant is BACK




Registered: 07/15/08
Posts: 5,229
Loc:
Last seen: 7 months, 17 days
|
Re: Question about small-claims court [Re: Anonymous #1]
#13570727 - 12/01/10 10:09 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Anonymous said: Judge Judy that shit, man.
Actually already got her applied for the show I figure my mom would win be default, because my Aunt is a humongous bitch, and would end up getting thrown out of the courtroom.
|
oldmyco
Perma-5 Mushroom Rating
Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 278
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
|
Re: Question about small-claims court [Re: c1dh3d]
#13571905 - 12/02/10 06:52 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
im not a lawyer by any means but i have been to small claims court. its much looser than a court with lawyers. meaning the laws still apply but the judge has a bit more leeway to decide if someone is lying.
here is the scenario i picture
your mom claims she lent her money hopefully your aunt flat out denies this , which she may your mom shows the 1500 payment from your aunt the judge asks your aunt what that is all about
your aunt starts to backpeddle saying she only borrowed 1500
and hopefulllllly, the judge digs into her about it, asking why she didnt bring that up from the start.
with a few witnesses i think your mom has a good chance of winning in small claims court
judge judy and the tv shows pay the pepole to be on the show. if your aunt doesnt want to go, they will actually pay her, and use an actress in her place. no lie. they may also offer to pay some if not all of the judgement
-------------------- Deal with it
|
Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 19 days
|
Re: Question about small-claims court [Re: oldmyco]
#13572093 - 12/02/10 07:56 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
> hopefully your aunt flat out denies this , which she may
More likely, she will claim it was a gift.
> your mom shows the 1500 payment from your aunt
At which point the aunt is screwed.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
|
johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
|
Re: Question about small-claims court [Re: c1dh3d]
#13572130 - 12/02/10 08:10 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Where was the loan made? Where are the parties living now? Country, state/province
Don't worry so much about "proof". You don't need anything that fancy. As long as your mom is willing to go through the process and follow instructions (i.e. follow the law and insist on her rights), she'll probably get judgment if it was a valid loan and outstanding.
What evidence do you have of the money being loaned? How was the money transfered to yoru aunt? If by check or something, get a copy and hopefully the endorsement.
Then you get the Aunt on the stand and grill her. If she goes the "gift" route, you nail her with the memo and anyone else's testiomny who is aware of the loan. If she claims anything else, she's probably screwed.
Depending on the law, without a loan agreement there may be some defenses and statute of limitations issues, but these are usually affirmative defenses that your aunt likely won't know enough to raise unless she gets an attorney.
|
Cyclohexylamine
Turn on, Tune in, Drop out



Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 14,327
|
Re: Question about small-claims court [Re: johnm214]
#13572294 - 12/02/10 09:08 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
> hopefully your aunt flat out denies this , which she may
More likely, she will claim it was a gift.
> your mom shows the 1500 payment from your aunt
At which point the aunt is screwed.
Because of this don't tell your aunt anything about having any proof. This will allow for her to slip up more easily.
|
Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
|
|
Unless the aunt admits the loan, the case is a loser. A check for payment does not prove the other half was loaned. Don't throw good money after bad, it costs money to file a claim and serve papers. It also makes family feuds worse, the happy endings are mostly in the movies. Moral of the story is don't loan money to relatives and any loan should be documented.
Even getting a judgement does not mean you will get paid. It can be hard to collect.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
|
oldmyco
Perma-5 Mushroom Rating
Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 278
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
|
Re: Question about small-claims court [Re: Stonehenge]
#13574183 - 12/02/10 04:18 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
it costs thirty bux to file a claim in my state, probably pretty similar in others. not pursuing it is silly. five grand of money hard earned is nothing to just write off, family or not.
if my brother owed me five grand and told me to piss off, id show up at his house with an axe handle.
-------------------- Deal with it
|
Stonehenge
Alt Center

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 14,850
Loc: S.E.
|
Re: Question about small-claims court [Re: oldmyco]
#13574287 - 12/02/10 04:33 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
5 grand? I thought it was 1500? 30 bucks is dirt cheap, it's a lot more many places to file, plus the process server. All it will likely do is piss off the aunt so she never pays. You have to prove your claim to get a judgement and even that can be very hard to collect.
-------------------- “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835) Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
|
oldmyco
Perma-5 Mushroom Rating
Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 278
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
|
Re: Question about small-claims court [Re: Stonehenge]
#13574424 - 12/02/10 04:58 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Stonehenge said: 5 grand? I thought it was 1500? 30 bucks is dirt cheap, it's a lot more many places to file, plus the process server. All it will likely do is piss off the aunt so she never pays. You have to prove your claim to get a judgement and even that can be very hard to collect.
yeah she borrowed five grand, paid back 1500 so 3500 outstanding balance.
yeah its pretty cheap here to file. and to be honest its not as hard to win in small claims court. i dont want to say the rules are bent but they definitely play by a different set to a certain extent.
i won in small claims court easily. granted i had a good chunk of proof, but when you go you sit through other peoples cases, and i saw just how little hard evidence you need if the judge feels the other person is lying.
if she doesnt pursue it she will never get paid, if she does she has a chance. imo the sisterly friendship is long dead since the aunt is acting this way. his mom , imo, should recoup her hard earned money, and then cut her losses family wise
-------------------- Deal with it
|
Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 19 days
|
Re: Question about small-claims court [Re: Stonehenge]
#13574484 - 12/02/10 05:08 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
> Unless the aunt admits the loan, the case is a loser.
I disagree completely, given what has been stated. The aunt already returned part of the loan, thus she has shown that it was not a gift, even in her mind. Small claims judges hear "it was a gift" excuse every single day. They are very good at spotting bullshitters.
> i saw just how little hard evidence you need if the judge feels the other person is lying.
Exactly. Small claims is not like a court with lawyers and a jury.
> All it will likely do is piss off the aunt so she never pays.
Would that not be contempt of court?
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
|
oldmyco
Perma-5 Mushroom Rating
Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 278
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
|
Re: Question about small-claims court [Re: Seuss] 1
#13574514 - 12/02/10 05:14 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
damnit people im a pro at this i watch judge judy like a mofo!!!
-------------------- Deal with it
|
luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
|
Re: Question about small-claims court [Re: Seuss]
#13574547 - 12/02/10 05:23 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Seuss said: > All it will likely do is piss off the aunt so she never pays.
Would that not be contempt of court?
Let me tell you how it works here in my state where I have won several judgments.
1. I win a judgment against shitbag. 2. Receive no payment from shitbag. 3. File papers for non-payment, which costs me money. 4. Have Sheriff serve papers to shitbag, which costs me money. 4. Shitbag files "Affidavit Of Financial Responsibility". This is a form showing income and expenses for shitbag. 5. Judge says Sorry Sir but they have no way to pay at this time. Try again in a few months. Or, in rare cases, orders shitbag to pay me 5.00 per month for the rest of my fucking life. 6. Repeat steps 3 - 5 until you realize the utter futility of your endeavor.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
|
oldmyco
Perma-5 Mushroom Rating
Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 278
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
|
Re: Question about small-claims court [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#13574567 - 12/02/10 05:27 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
Seuss said: > All it will likely do is piss off the aunt so she never pays.
Would that not be contempt of court?
Let me tell you how it works here in my state where I have won several judgments.
1. I win a judgment against shitbag. 2. Receive no payment from shitbag. 3. File papers for non-payment, which costs me money. 4. Have Sheriff serve papers to shitbag, which costs me money. 4. Shitbag files "Affidavit Of Financial Responsibility". This is a form showing income and expenses for shitbag. 5. Judge says Sorry Sir but they have no way to pay at this time. Try again in a few months. Or, in rare cases, orders shitbag to pay me 5.00 per month for the rest of my fucking life. 6. Repeat steps 3 - 5 until you realize the utter futility of your endeavor.
as a general rule yes that happens. but this is family. his mom may know where she is working. unlike a stranger who can work off the books and say they have no income or money etc, his mom knows ,,possibly knows, her financial history or details or income etc
-------------------- Deal with it
|
c1dh3d
The elephant is BACK




Registered: 07/15/08
Posts: 5,229
Loc:
Last seen: 7 months, 17 days
|
Re: Question about small-claims court [Re: oldmyco]
#13574748 - 12/02/10 06:24 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
The total loan was 3000, of which 1500 is paid.
Im under the impression, that in MN courts will either garnish wages or confiscate state tax returns to pay the owed amount.
And yes, the two work for the same company, at different locations.
|
luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
|
Re: Question about small-claims court [Re: c1dh3d]
#13574967 - 12/02/10 07:13 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
oldmyco said: as a general rule yes that happens. but this is family. his mom may know where she is working. unlike a stranger who can work off the books and say they have no income or money etc, his mom knows ,,possibly knows, her financial history or details or income etc
It doesn't matter if it's family or not.
It doesn't matter if they are working on or off the books or if I know where they are working.
Some states/courts/judges do not take matters like this seriously.
Quote:
c1dh3d said: Im under the impression, that in MN courts will either garnish wages or confiscate state tax returns to pay the owed amount.
Alas, the state I am in will not garnish wages. Several will not. And as we pay no state income tax, that's not an option. Your mom should consider herself fortunate that hers will.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
|
oldmyco
Perma-5 Mushroom Rating
Registered: 11/12/10
Posts: 278
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
|
Re: Question about small-claims court [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#13575161 - 12/02/10 08:34 PM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
just tell her to take her to court and let the cards fall where they may nothing we say here matters
she will win im willing to bet on it
-------------------- Deal with it
|
luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
|
Re: Question about small-claims court [Re: oldmyco]
#13576382 - 12/03/10 03:30 AM (13 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Quote:
oldmyco said: just tell her to take her to court and let the cards fall where they may nothing we say here matters
True enough.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
|
|