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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: IkiLeaks [Re: Shins]
#13642354 - 12/16/10 02:23 PM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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How about you just argue the side you actually believe? Given your positions I am quite sure that there will be no dearth of those who will take the other side.
By the way, Stormfront says Hi.
http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t720869/#post8262913
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Nexius
Ruler



Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 3,960
Loc: Earth
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Seuss is on a power trip
-------------------- Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: IkiLeaks [Re: Nexius]
#13642378 - 12/16/10 02:28 PM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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That's a personalism.
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: IkiLeaks [Re: Nexius]
#13642385 - 12/16/10 02:28 PM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nexius said: Seuss is on a power trip
He's going to assassinate your account ;D
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Nexius
Ruler



Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 3,960
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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Re: IkiLeaks [Re: Shins]
#13642456 - 12/16/10 02:40 PM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said:
Quote:
Nexius said: Seuss is on a power trip
He's going to assassinate your account ;D
hehe
-------------------- Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak
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husk
Stranger
Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 232
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
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Re: IkiLeaks [Re: Seuss]
#13645888 - 12/17/10 05:52 AM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > how many scientists capable of making such things have ever actually used them personally????
There was a cult in Japan a while back that made sarin nerve gas and released it on the Tokyo subway. There was another cult in the US a while back that sprayed salad bars in the PNW with biological weapons. It doesn't even take a scientist if the "recipes" are published.
> Albert Einstein may have made the atomic bomb possible
The only thing Albert Einstein had to do with the atomic bombs was writing a letter to the President of the US warning him of the possibilities of the enemies developing such a weapon before the US.
> The Truth has value and if everyone and everything were exposed we might be forced to be truely civilised.
There are crazy people in the world that don't care about being civilized. Not everybody is good at heart.
if you can't trust society how can you trust a handfull of people with greater power/rights and access to information, whom are in an even better position for curruption??? the problem is human and regardless of who has the info they are prone to that fault.
besides chemistry could lead anyone to developing such weapons, one need not read pages and pages of wiki leaks archives in the hope of finding such things, google will yeild you info on serin gas : Properties Molecular formula C4H10FO2P Molar mass 140.09 g/mol Appearance Clear colorless liquid. Odorless in pure form. Density 1.0887 g/cm³ at 25 °C 1.102 g/cm³ at 20 °C Melting point
-56 °C, 217 K, -69 °F Boiling point
158 °C, 431 K, 316 °F Solubility in water miscible
if you have the lab and the chemistry skills you don't need wikileaks
Knowledge and the Truth should be availible to everyone...all information should come under the banner of Academia because polotics, history, anthropology cover most of what is in wikileaks... data is data, its statistics, its information that can be learned from.
For fear of what may go wrong, mushrooms and psychadelics have a pretty bad wrap.... but so much can be learned and for many its worth the risk. The information comes with risk. splitting the atom came with risk, and starting the large hadron collider came with risk... now open source government or free information will come with risks too... whats the worst that can happen??? with the large hadron collider it was a black hole in europe... with free information from wikileaks the risks are slightly less id say.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
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Re: IkiLeaks [Re: husk]
#13645917 - 12/17/10 06:25 AM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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> all information should come under the banner of Academia
Cool... so you don't mind if I install cameras in your house and stream everything you do to the web? You did say all information. I'm guessing somebody will pay to watch you on the toilet. There are some odd people out there.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Cannashroom
Smoke two Joints



Registered: 10/25/07
Posts: 2,141
Loc: Everywhere
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: No, sorry, I am correct. It is definitively a troll. Adopting a position you do not believe for the sake of argument is by definition trolling.
So debate club is trolling? Sometimes people just want to become better at arguing, practice makes perfect.
Trolling is purposefully posting just to aggravate other people for an emotion response. Carrying out a debate is not trolling, even if you claim it so zappa.
-------------------- "A human being is part of the whole, called by us 'Universe'; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest -- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security." Albert Einstein
Edited by Cannashroom (12/17/10 08:01 AM)
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Grav


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 4,454
Loc:
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Re: IkiLeaks [Re: husk]
#13646180 - 12/17/10 08:46 AM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
if you can't trust society how can you trust a handfull of people with greater power/rights and access to information, whom are in an even better position for curruption??? the problem is human and regardless of who has the info they are prone to that fault.
i agree. we are letting employees withhold their own performance reviews for our own 'security'.
this reminds me of the lectures ex-cia Robert Steele has online. he swears up and down that the way we gather and manage intelligence is totally inefficient and out of date. the gathering of secrets only meant for a privileged few is flawed by nature.
what if intelligence was opened up to the public and we didn't have to perform this continuous act of faith on the gatekeepers? let the people know what is really happening in the world and let them decide what threats exist (we're not stupid, we all want to survive) and allow them to collectively vote on what to do about it. we are in such constant communication with each other via wireless technology, tweets, networking, etc. we could really be the eyes and ears of the world without the old veil of secrecy that has not been proven in any way to actually work.
take for example the theatre of Al-Qiada. if intelligence were opened up, society could see that it is a non-existent organization (which has been proven over and over again) we could use our powers of reason to fire the people who created the threat for their own gain, move past the facade, and evaluate real dangers to the people, not dangers to 'secrecy'.
if a group began misusing intelligence or spreading lies, there would be about 50 million people that would call them on it almost immediately. we could enact a new set of intelligence laws that carry severe punishments for spreading false information. weed out the liars, propagandists, and spinners and get back to reality.
obviously open intelligence would have its own unique problems, but i think would be a huge step up from allowing a cabal of criminals to horde secrets for themselves as we the sheep hope and pray we fall under their umbrella of protection as they seek to protect themselves.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: IkiLeaks [Re: Grav]
#13646503 - 12/17/10 10:35 AM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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> what if intelligence was opened up to the public and we didn't have to perform this continuous act of faith on the gatekeepers?
Then our spies in other countries would be shot and the information the send us would no longer be available to anybody.
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Stillmatic9142
Learner



Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 797
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Re: IkiLeaks [Re: Seuss]
#13647287 - 12/17/10 01:46 PM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > all information should come under the banner of Academia
Cool... so you don't mind if I install cameras in your house and stream everything you do to the web? You did say all information. I'm guessing somebody will pay to watch you on the toilet. There are some odd people out there.
If that's what you wanted to do. Then why not?
-------------------- In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists & will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together. -former President & 5 Star General, Dwight D Eisenhower's farewell address to the Nation
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Nexius
Ruler



Registered: 06/24/07
Posts: 3,960
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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-------------------- Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak
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husk
Stranger
Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 232
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
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Re: IkiLeaks [Re: Seuss]
#13648803 - 12/17/10 07:53 PM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > all information should come under the banner of Academia
Cool... so you don't mind if I install cameras in your house and stream everything you do to the web? You did say all information. I'm guessing somebody will pay to watch you on the toilet. There are some odd people out there.
go ahead what do I care, if everyone is is streamed on the toilet i would hardly feel bad about it...after all its a fact of life.
you really dislike the idea of freedom of information. makes me think perhaps you feel people should have things to hide??? personally i feel when everything is exposed you have to live in a way that you actually beleive is right... why would you be ashamed, feel guilty or want to keep secret anything that you believe is righteous???
when you live a righteous life you have unlimited confidence. being blind drunk has the same effect but mainly because your mind has less time (well really reduced processing capacity) to apply a moral code before you act on impulse.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: IkiLeaks [Re: husk]
#13649269 - 12/17/10 09:41 PM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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> you really dislike the idea of freedom of information
No, I really do like the idea of privacy. I don't need anybody that feels like it pretending to be me and draining my bank account.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Stillmatic9142
Learner



Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 797
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Re: IkiLeaks [Re: Seuss]
#13649669 - 12/17/10 11:00 PM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > you really dislike the idea of freedom of information
No, I really do like the idea of privacy. I don't need anybody that feels like it pretending to be me and draining my bank account.
There is a difference between freedom of information and privacy rights.
-------------------- In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists & will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together. -former President & 5 Star General, Dwight D Eisenhower's farewell address to the Nation
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Yes there is quite a difference. They are diametrically opposed.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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> Yes there is quite a difference. They are diametrically opposed.
And it certainly isn't Assange's right to decide where to draw the line between what is private and what is not.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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WScott
´ ɑ `▽ ᑲᓇᑕ


Registered: 07/31/05
Posts: 5,713
Loc: Nacada
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: IkiLeaks [Re: Seuss]
#13674297 - 12/23/10 02:46 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Cenk Uygur interviews Julian Assange 15 15Minutes --DylanRatiganShow-MSNBC 12-22-10.flv
In this interview, Cenk Uygur, of The Young Turks, asks some questions but mostly allows Julian Assange to speak on several important points that have to do with the whole situation of WikiLeaks, Bradley Manning and his solitary imprisonment, and things to be aware of concerning the future of journalism.
Assange raises an interesting point in the video at 7:15 when he discusses how certain U.S. political figures are accusing him of being a terrorist, yet, according to Assange, if you look at the definition of terrorism, you see that it is violence or the threat of violence to achieve political ends - nothing of which describes WikiLeaks (please watch the video before debating this), but, again according to Assange, describes the actions of politicians perfectly.
Reminds me a little bit of 1984 in that the words are being manipulated so incredibly.
edit --
One of the top rated comments off of YouTube reiterates nicely:
Quote:
The most unusual thing about all this mess is NOT Julian Assange and Wikileaks gossip stuff - it is, as is said in the interview, the statements by Sarah Palin and Mike Huckabee - as well as MANY others on Fox News actually calling for MURDER or KIDNAPPING of people throughout the world when they do these things. That is Terrorism in the most descriptive use of the word. resculptit 7 hours ago 104
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
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Re: WIKILEAKS [Re: WScott]
#13674405 - 12/23/10 03:53 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Assange raises an interesting point in the video at 7:15 when he discusses how certain U.S. political figures are accusing him of being a terrorist, yet, according to Assange, if you look at the definition of terrorism, you see that it is violence or the threat of violence to achieve political ends
Unfortunately, the word 'terrorist' often gets used carelessly, usually by politicians trying to stir emotions. However, there is some validity in the use of the term with respect to Assange. He is certainly trying to achieve political ends. The only question becomes is the threat of violence or use of violence being used to achieve his goal? In a traditional sense, no. He isn't building bombs or threatening to blow up buildings. However, the information he is releasing allows people that are building bombs and threatening to blow up buildings to better target their weapons. There is no question that the information he is releasing enables terrorists to do a better job. It is a fine line that he is walking...
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: WIKILEAKS [Re: Seuss]
#13674418 - 12/23/10 04:28 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
Quote:
Assange raises an interesting point in the video at 7:15 when he discusses how certain U.S. political figures are accusing him of being a terrorist, yet, according to Assange, if you look at the definition of terrorism, you see that it is violence or the threat of violence to achieve political ends
Unfortunately, the word 'terrorist' often gets used carelessly, usually by politicians trying to stir emotions. However, there is some validity in the use of the term with respect to Assange. He is certainly trying to achieve political ends. The only question becomes is the threat of violence or use of violence being used to achieve his goal? In a traditional sense, no. He isn't building bombs or threatening to blow up buildings. However, the information he is releasing allows people that are building bombs and threatening to blow up buildings to better target their weapons. There is no question that the information he is releasing enables terrorists to do a better job. It is a fine line that he is walking...
It's a fine line you're walking, because that is quite a stretch.
What about war? does war not count as terrorism by that definition?
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