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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Poor Debating Technique
    #1355203 - 03/06/03 04:14 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

One of my least favorite debating tricks is the declaration of the "obviousness" of a certain conclusion.

This device is insidious as it can be blatant or quite subtle. You will frequently hear it on the news in a form such as:

"Any patriotic American must support..." or

"Any intelligent person must understand that..." or

"It is common sense that..." or

"Everybody knows that..." or

"It goes without saying..."

Frequently these are compounded with the additional fallacy of appealing to the crowd.

Markos recently slipped this gem in his diatribe to reinforce his point: "...and without debate..." Sorry bro, all is open to debate; otherwise why state it?

Do you use any of these? Great if you want to be a politician or a manipulator, but if you are striving for sincerity, avoid this technique.

Remember: "Any honest debater refrains from..."


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Anonymous

Re: Poor Debating Technique [Re: Swami]
    #1355249 - 03/06/03 04:40 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

This is a clever psychological ploy to put the speaker in the position of authority, too, in a "get with the program" sort of way.

The most humble of debating phrases would probably be "I think".


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OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
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Registered: 04/11/99
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Re: Poor Debating Technique [Re: Swami]
    #1355368 - 03/06/03 05:53 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

This is so stupid I don't even need to respond.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
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Re: Poor Debating Technique [Re: ]
    #1355371 - 03/06/03 05:54 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Watched Fox News tonight. Their byline is "Fair and Unbiased Reporting" or "Fair and Accurate Reporting". This is another variation of truth by mere declaration.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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Offlinechemkid
Be excellent toeach other

Registered: 06/21/02
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Re: Poor Debating Technique [Re: Swami]
    #1355450 - 03/06/03 06:39 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Obviously without question I would never do this.



--------------------
An open mind is the greatest journey of all.


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OfflineGlacius
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Re: Poor Debating Technique [Re: Swami]
    #1355945 - 03/07/03 03:08 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Indeed. I think, or I perceive. Subjectivily anything can be right.


--------------------
addicted to reason
a hollow understanding trapped me
I cannot see outside but its calling


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: Poor Debating Technique [Re: Swami]
    #1356002 - 03/07/03 03:49 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Fair and Balanced News is their tagline....and that is DEFINITELY inaccurate.


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Anonymous

Re: Poor Debating Technique [Re: Swami]
    #1356009 - 03/07/03 03:58 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Anyone with an ounce of sense knows this isn't true in the slightest.


[ducks and runs swiftly out of the room]


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OfflineStrumpling
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Registered: 10/11/02
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Re: Poor Debating Technique [Re: Swami]
    #1356474 - 03/07/03 07:34 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I'm with Mr. Mushrooms - everybody knows he's right. Obviously Swami doesn't know what he's talking about..... We all figured that our months ago.. :tongue: :tongue: :tongue:

heh just kidding man :smile: Thanks for pointing this out - it bothers the hell out of me too :laugh:


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


Edited by Strumpling (03/07/03 07:35 AM)


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Poor Debating Technique [Re: Swami]
    #1357314 - 03/08/03 05:22 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

"We've already established that you're wrong Swami..."
Does this sound in any way familiar?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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Anonymous

Re: Poor Debating Technique [Re: Swami]
    #1357465 - 03/08/03 06:56 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Actually, declaration is a good for of debating.  Keep in mind, the point of a debate is to convince the other side, or persuade a mediator.  You're not going to convince anyone by saying, "I think Bush might not be too smart," as opposed to, "Bush is obviously a dolt."

What I think you are aiming at is the use of sourceless declarations found in the news and often around these boards, in which case, you are without a doubt correct :wink:


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InvisibleThe_Clash_UK
Day Tripper
Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,000
Loc: UK
Re: Poor Debating Technique [Re: Swami]
    #1357492 - 03/08/03 07:05 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

"One of my least favorite debating tricks is....."

Oh really Swami? Why do you wanna make a post about it?
And why not post in another forum?

Gently edited to prevent any misunderstanding. :smile:


--------------------
Crash a cig guvnor?


Edited by Mr_Mushrooms (03/08/03 10:59 PM)


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OfflineStrumpling
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Re: Poor Debating Technique [Re: The_Clash_UK]
    #1357908 - 03/08/03 10:15 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

wow calm down dude...... he posted a thread about it most likely with the hopes that it would reduce the amounts of claims made with that type of rhetoric


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Offlinestoner2002
Stoner

Registered: 11/15/02
Posts: 183
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Poor Debating Technique [Re: Strumpling]
    #1357923 - 03/08/03 10:25 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I think that every opinion should start off with "I think". What do you think? Perception is reality.


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OfflineStrumpling
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Registered: 10/11/02
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Re: Poor Debating Technique [Re: stoner2002]
    #1357924 - 03/08/03 10:27 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

did you see my sig?

it says just that, to pretend that I'm THINKING instead of CLAIMING when I post, and to feel free to yell at me :wink:


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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Offlinestoner2002
Stoner

Registered: 11/15/02
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Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Poor Debating Technique [Re: Strumpling]
    #1357940 - 03/08/03 10:36 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

did you see my sig?

it says just that, to pretend that I'm THINKING instead of CLAIMING when I post, and to feel free to yell at me :wink: 




Holy shit! I never noticed that before.  It's good to see we think alike. heh

That's a good way to think though.  You shouldnt believe what anybody else thinks, unless they have proof...only listen to yourself. 


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
Loc: Apt #6, The Village
Re: Poor Debating Technique [Re: The_Clash_UK]
    #1358072 - 03/08/03 12:00 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Oh really Swami? Why do you wanna make a post about it?
And why not post in another forum you Pribechian Mo'fucker!



What's the matter, did you see some of your words up there? Oh, are you aware of the 'Be Nice' policy?


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Edited by Evolving (03/08/03 12:01 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Poor Debating Technique [Re: The_Clash_UK]
    #1358110 - 03/08/03 12:26 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I know you probably were kidding but all of us are subject to the Be Nice policy.

Please edit your post or I will have to.

Thanks Bro. :smile:

Cheers,


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Anonymous

Re: Poor Debating Technique [Re: Strumpling]
    #1358114 - 03/08/03 12:27 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Welcome back. :wink:


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OfflineStrumpling
Neuronaut
Registered: 10/11/02
Posts: 7,571
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Last seen: 5 years, 8 months
Re: Poor Debating Technique [Re: ]
    #1358308 - 03/08/03 02:35 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

thanks man - peace :smile:


--------------------
Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE


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