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Invisibleredtailedhawk
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How different cubensis strains differentiate themselves regarding their effects? * 1
    #13540163 - 11/25/10 04:26 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I'm looking for information on how different cubensis strains differentiate themselves regarding their effects (not on their looks or any other parameters). So far I gathered this from different posts. Please comment and share additional insight. Thanks! :mushroom2:

CUBENSIS:

Treasure Coast

* i feel gives a more visual trip. colors bleed together, traffic lights become hazzy as hell (every time i eat this strain)

Thailand Koh Samui Super Strain

* i feel is a extremely intense body buzz, with less of a visual effects. i've tried to follow glowstix while on these, and it's not as fun.
* very potent strong body high, very speedy though, decent visuals but a rather short lived trip.

Cambodia

* were the best visually, about mind fucks, I don't know, they all pretty much fuck my brain good.
* cambos were everything
* visuals like crazy
* very body high
* Cambo's are the fucking mike tysons of the mushroom world and they will knock your ass down!
* If your into visuals, i heard it's a blast.
* pretty clean. Little to no stomach discomfort. Wonderful vibes and insane visuals.
* Hawks Eye: a very nice energetic high that tended to last quite a while. Very smooth as well without much body noise

mexi-cub

* has a super clean buzz
* Hawks Eye: it doesnt seem to give the high anxiety a lot of mushrooms do when the first initial waves of euphoria come over on. Its a very smooth, clean vibe, with a nice heavy play

PR

* stronger more intense visual experience
* PR are everything in one I feel, mind-fuck, body high, visual high.
* somewhat disappointed with PR.
* Pr is not all that visual and kinda hyped up imo...non of my friends liked em.

T3

* calmer, easier effects but still very visual

B+

* short and high body buzz
* predominately physical
* Few visuals, highly euphoric, trails...
* IME are a very visual strain OEV and CEV (open/closed eye visuals).
* epeaditly have relaxed visuals everytime
* more laughter and isn't the greatest for visuals.
* visuals from B+'s seem very flowing and 'big. Euphoria from B+'s is awesome
* not a 'tripping balls', but transparent, easygoing, energetic, spiritual, meditative, anxiety free,reflective strain. they feel 'clean' and are a gentle teaching tool

Golden Teacher

* good strong body buzz, head buzz and nice visuals
* more of a mind trip.........no visuals but crazy thought. i didn't like them.
* Very few visuals, mostly physical and euphoric.
* little low on visuals...high on the mindfuck
* very visual mind high
* intense, body wise

Ecuador

* Very potent great body vibe, layed back not overly speedy like ks, strong visuals/ very visual!
* a little more visual at a lower dose but are a tad to "Mindfucky"
* always more intense
* have very defined visuals, my mind feels very sharp
* pure fun, low open eye visuals imo.
* Hawks Eye: the euphoric sensation it creates is a very dreamy, relaxing, and can be quite visual.

Mazatapec

* Great body vibe nothing compares so sweet, very visual and an excellent strain my fav!
* preforms great and gives off awsome visuals and a smooth happy vibe trip last a decent while too.
* trips heavy in spiritual wisdom and self-knowledge
* by far the best visuals visuals....tracers.. colors etc. Less body high... racier.... speedier
* Hawks Eye: mushrooms from Mexico tend to deliver a very powerfull spiritual journey

Mexi/ Palenque

* A little speedy very clean vibe with noce visuals Costa Ricans
* great visuals and was more layed back

PESA

* very laid back with mild visuals

Penis Envy

* Hawks Eye: vibe lasts a long, long time. It does not come on in "waves" as most cubensis do. It is very smooth, and clean and easy on the body.

OTHERS:


Ps. Azurescens

* were the strongest ones by far, although I don't really like their kind of trip, which sometimes is too rough to enjoy it.

Pan. Cyanescens

* are also very nice and very visual, without being too mind fucking. my favorite mushrooms to trip on, since their trip is very moving and colourful (so great visuals), a VERY nice body high and they seem not to fuck with your mind at all.
* 1. Quick onset 10-20 min 2. Shorter duration 4-6 hours 3. Friendlier, less analytical, more "recreational" 4. Dreamy 5. Visuals are different then cubensis/ more dramatic
* Hawks Eye: extremely beautiful vibe beyond description. So peacefull and colorfull, very potent yet about the "smoothest" mushroom experience out there

Ps. Semilanceata

* very much, though they very VERY much in potency, which can be quiet annoying, since you have either a shitty or a too strong trip

Panaeolus Cambodginiensis

* Hawks Eye: The vibe from these is very intense and last many hours. not as smooth as the pan cyans. more "body noise. On another note they are extremely colorful and visual.

Panaeolus Tropicalis

* Hawks Eye: Its extremely visual... a very nice clean... vibe.....tasty...and just delivers a very powerful, colorful journey into the mind.


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"Who are you who live in all these many forms? You're death that captures all. You too are the source of all that's gonna be born. You're glory, mercy, peace, truth. You give calm a spirit, understanding, courage, the contented heart."


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InvisibleLibertin
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Posts: 959
Re: How different cubensis strains differentiate themselves regarding their effects? [Re: redtailedhawk] * 2
    #13540572 - 11/25/10 06:11 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

There is much disagreement regarding this topic. And in your search for the information you've already obtained, I would guess that you've come across the "a cube is a cube" argument. If you haven't it's basically as follows:

Each of the various cubensis strains contain the same chemicals:
  • Psilocin
  • Psilocybin [the predrug of psilocin]
  • Baeocystin

Because different strains contain the same chemicals, in theory, the mushrooms of any cubensis strain should provide the same kind of experience. The differences between the strains are merely superficial and there is no scientific reason for the experiences to be vastly different.


Despite this, there are many subjective reports of differing effects between the various strains. Why is this so? At first sight there seems to be a discrepancy between the theory and the practice.

My personal views on this issue. (Sure, you can all disagree or swear at me whatever ^^)

All of my experiences with mushrooms have been with the same strain from the same source. I can attest that some of these experiences have been wildly different from the others. In my mind therefore, I cannot see how one can possibly attribute particular effects to any particular strain. Sure, you might say that my argument is weakened by the fact I've never tried other strains. I might change my opinion if I tried another strain. However, I doubt this. I believe that any substantial difference in a single experience can be explained by the fact that there is naturally a huge amount of variance between trips.

I suppose I could crudely force my argument into one sentence. Within the same strain there is enough variance to make any strain-to-strain comparison worthless.

If someone is experiencing consistent effects that they believe are characteristic of a particular strain, I would suggest that this could be due to psychological phenomena such as expectation and the power of suggestion.


Edited by Libertin (11/25/10 06:23 PM)


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Offlinek00laid
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Re: How different cubensis strains differentiate themselves regarding their effects? [Re: Libertin]
    #13540760 - 11/25/10 06:58 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

strain thread.

cervantes strain journal.


also a cube is a cube until we are allowed to trade mycelium isolates


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OfflinePoisonCrazy
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Re: How different cubensis strains differentiate themselves regarding their effects? [Re: k00laid]
    #13540842 - 11/25/10 07:21 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

k00laid said:
also a cube is a cube until we are allowed to trade mycelium isolates



Cant wait for that day....


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Offlineaqualato
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Registered: 07/08/09
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Re: How different cubensis strains differentiate themselves regarding their effects? [Re: PoisonCrazy]
    #13541815 - 11/26/10 12:11 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

i agree with you Libertin. also put in the fact that every person is different. Also the active chemicals in cubes vary from strain to strain or even batch to batch. So someone having an eighth of one batch could have a completely different trip then some someone with another batch even if it is the same cube.


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OfflineCaptainAhab


Registered: 12/25/09
Posts: 1,875
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Re: How different cubensis strains differentiate themselves regarding their effects? [Re: aqualato]
    #13542215 - 11/26/10 01:56 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Amazon
Pretty stoney, not very visual. Some stomach discomfort.
Look the best when growing, but not the strongest.

Agree on Golden Teacher, agree on Koh Samui. Also agree with B+... and
B+ I thought were the best trip. Well described by you.


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Invisiblemonkiman
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Registered: 06/30/10
Posts: 1,030
Loc: somewhere in space time.
Re: How different cubensis strains differentiate themselves regarding their effects? [Re: CaptainAhab]
    #13542253 - 11/26/10 02:10 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

so all psilocybin mushrooms have the same effects? what about cubes vs subaeruginosa?


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OfflineCaptainAhab


Registered: 12/25/09
Posts: 1,875
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Re: How different cubensis strains differentiate themselves regarding their effects? [Re: monkiman]
    #13542387 - 11/26/10 02:53 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

monkiman said:
so all psilocybin mushrooms have the same effects? what about cubes vs subaeruginosa?




No, they sure don't. There's a lot of talk on here about not having "strain" discussions... but I don't see why. They grow different, look different, have different types of unique attributes, and have different psychoactive effects. I think strain discussions should be opened up.


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Invisibledrr
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Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 8,444
Re: How different cubensis strains differentiate themselves regarding their effects? [Re: Libertin]
    #13542477 - 11/26/10 03:14 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Libertin said:
Within the same strain there is enough variance to make any strain-to-strain comparison worthless.

If someone is experiencing consistent effects that they believe are characteristic of a particular strain, I would suggest that this could be due to psychological phenomena such as expectation and the power of suggestion.



I think I agree with this.

I did seem to think the effects of p. mexicana I tried were significantly different than my other cube trips. It seemed much more visual, and more intense. Which makes perfect sense, because they are more potent, and I had not reached that level eating eighths of cubes. I don't think its a quality of the mushroom, it is just a matter of dose.


OP: Didn't you notice that most of those descriptions are the same for different strains, and many are conflicting, within the same strain?


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OfflineCaptainAhab


Registered: 12/25/09
Posts: 1,875
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
Re: How different cubensis strains differentiate themselves regarding their effects? [Re: Libertin]
    #13542512 - 11/26/10 03:23 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Libertin said:
There is much disagreement regarding this topic. And in your search for the information you've already obtained, I would guess that you've come across the "a cube is a cube" argument. If you haven't it's basically as follows:

Each of the various cubensis strains contain the same chemicals:
  • Psilocin
  • Psilocybin [the predrug of psilocin]
  • Baeocystin

Because different strains contain the same chemicals, in theory, the mushrooms of any cubensis strain should provide the same kind of experience. The differences between the strains are merely superficial and there is no scientific reason for the experiences to be vastly different.


Despite this, there are many subjective reports of differing effects between the various strains. Why is this so? At first sight there seems to be a discrepancy between the theory and the practice.

My personal views on this issue. (Sure, you can all disagree or swear at me whatever ^^)

All of my experiences with mushrooms have been with the same strain from the same source. I can attest that some of these experiences have been wildly different from the others. In my mind therefore, I cannot see how one can possibly attribute particular effects to any particular strain. Sure, you might say that my argument is weakened by the fact I've never tried other strains. I might change my opinion if I tried another strain. However, I doubt this. I believe that any substantial difference in a single experience can be explained by the fact that there is naturally a huge amount of variance between trips.

I suppose I could crudely force my argument into one sentence. Within the same strain there is enough variance to make any strain-to-strain comparison worthless.

If someone is experiencing consistent effects that they believe are characteristic of a particular strain, I would suggest that this could be due to psychological phenomena such as expectation and the power of suggestion.




I disagree completely. First of all, you've only taken 1 strain. Why are you parroting all of this cube-is-a-cube rhetoric without ANY experience with other strains? You're talking out of your ass.


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Edited by CaptainAhab (11/26/10 03:25 AM)


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OfflineMycjunky
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Re: How different cubensis strains differentiate themselves regarding their effects? [Re: Libertin]
    #13542534 - 11/26/10 03:34 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Like stated this topic is hotly debated but I'd like to just put something I've thought about into this thread. Many highly respected members of this community seem to constantly state that a cube is a cube, and for the most part this is definitely true for multiple reasons. First being all cubes have pretty much the exact same growing conditions with very little variation. Second being cubes from multispore are always going to be totally unpredictable, multispore is just like throwing the dice and seeing what you get.

However what I'd like to add, and mind I haven't got a lot of scientific proof to back it up is that different cube strains aren't really much different from having different strains of marijuana. It's well known what different marijuana strains have different make ups of chemicals because there are multiple chemicals that get you high. It's well known for mushrooms there are multiple chemicals that also cause the affects. It's very reasonable that different strains of mushrooms would have slightly different chemical make ups.

Here's the main problem though. Where as with weed it's easy to pass on a strain by getting seeds from a plant it's not the same with mushrooms. Starting with spores from a certain strain isn't saying it will have the same characteristics as the original mushroom strain because that's not how mushrooms are. When you get a seed from a marijuana plant the plant you grow from that seed is going to have the characteristics of the plant it came from no doubt about it. So for this fact we can't compare the multispore columbian strain grower A has to the multispore columbian strain grower B has because different spores reproduced in each of those cases, and essentially they really aren't even the same strain.

So concluding this if anyone even cared to read it lol, there can definitely be different effects from different cube strains but unless you actually isolate a strain it's never going to be consistent.


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Invisiblemonkiman
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Re: How different cubensis strains differentiate themselves regarding their effects? [Re: CaptainAhab]
    #13542564 - 11/26/10 03:43 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

i have not had cubensis before(doing my first grow at the moment), the only mushroom i have had is psilocybe subaeruginosa, so i will soon be able to tell for myself.
why no strain discussions? this would be good information if there was different effects.
its tricky because the psychedelic experience is hard to judge.


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Offlinek00laid
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Re: How different cubensis strains differentiate themselves regarding their effects? [Re: monkiman]
    #13543823 - 11/26/10 02:11 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

monkiman said:
why no strain discussions?





because what we are discussing are NOT strains.

a strain is the result of two spores.
when you shoot 300 spores into a BRF cake and get something that looks like B+ you cannot assume it will be as potent as everyone elses B+.

or that it will colonize in the same amount of time.
or that it will give the exact same kind of trip.
or that it will be "contam resistant" like some people claim some "strains" are.


spores are spores.
and strains are strains.


cubes are cubes.


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Invisiblemonkiman
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Re: How different cubensis strains differentiate themselves regarding their effects? [Re: k00laid]
    #13543996 - 11/26/10 03:09 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

thanks for clearing that up, what about a woodlover or liberty cap? i know they are more potent, but would these other psilocybes have different effects from cubes?


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OfflineCaptainAhab


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Re: How different cubensis strains differentiate themselves regarding their effects? [Re: monkiman]
    #13544288 - 11/26/10 04:29 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

You know, I'm going to have to lay some academics on you guys. Let me put some things out there in laymen's terms, first.

Q: Did you know that there are similarities among different races of plants, people, and all living things despite the variation inherent in chromosome replication (breeding)?

A: Obviously. Look at skin color, eye color, hair color, breast size. Whatever it is, there's a genetic correlation.


Q: Do you know how organisms are created? Do you know what a clone is? This will help you understand genetics. 

A: Think back to Jurassic Park. If you can look at all the coding regions of a genome (DNA), then, in effect, you could recreate the organism. The process of breeding makes this easy, since genetics from 2 parents combine to form offspring.


Q: Did you know that we can find our closest relatives through investigation of our DNA (mtDNA)?

A: Yes, we can trace your mitochondrial DNA all the way back to the genetic "Eve," or first mother. In effect, this means that there are similarities among our chromosomes that allow us to find a common ancestor.


Okay, now that you know this, let's look at some interesting facts about fungi genetics.

1. The fungi probably colonized the land during the Cambrian Period (542–488.3 Million years ago), long before land plants.

2. The major phyla (sometimes called divisions) of fungi have been classified mainly on the basis of characteristics of their sexual reproductive structures.

3. The use of DNA sequencing technologies and phylogenetic analysis has provided new insights into fungal relationships and biodiversity, and has challenged traditional morphology-based groupings in fungal taxonomy.

Let's look at what genetics are.

Organisms inherit traits via discrete units of inheritance called "genes." Genes hold the information to build and maintain an organism's cells and pass genetic traits to offspring.

Genes correspond to regions within DNA, a molecule composed of a chain of four different types of nucleotides—the sequence of these nucleotides is the genetic information organisms inherit.

DNA naturally occurs in a double stranded form, with nucleotides on each strand complementary to each other. Each strand can act as a template for creating a new partner strand—this is the physical method for making copies of genes that can be inherited.

The sequence of nucleotides in a gene is translated by cells to produce a chain of amino acids, creating proteins—the order of amino acids in a protein corresponds to the order of nucleotides in the gene.

This relationship between nucleotide sequence and amino acid sequence is known as the genetic code.

The amino acids in a protein determine how it folds into a three-dimensional shape; this structure is, in turn, responsible for the protein's function. Proteins carry out almost all the functions needed for cells to live.

A change to the DNA in a gene can change a protein's amino acids, changing its shape and function: this can have a dramatic effect in the cell and on the organism as a whole.


Tying it all together:

Mushrooms predate pangaea, wherein the world was one large continent. Mushrooms evolved separately over eons to create and maintain distinct genomes. These genomes give rise to coding genes that make mushrooms what they are.

Here's a map of the distribution of Psilocybe cubensis:


The major active "ingredients" in cubensis mushrooms are:
    * Psilocybin (4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine)
    * Psilocin (4-hydroxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine)
    * Baeocystin (4-phosphoryloxy-N-methyltryptamine)
    * Norbaeocystin (4-phosphoryloxytryptamine)

Many of you on this forum know that 2ci is not the same as 2cb. Well, the molecular difference between the two is just a switch of bromine for iodine at one position on the molecule.

Here's another example... Testosterone versus Nandralone. Can you tell me the difference between these two molecules?



One gives you male characteristics, the other gives you impotence. There's only a switch of a methyl group for a hydrogen.

Further, I invite you to characterize (identify) all active ingredients in a mushroom via HPLC, IR, C/H-NMR. To my knowledge, the complete chemical composition of Psilocybe cubensis hasn't even been deciphered, or published academically, yet. If it has, then please, by all means, tell me how many different compounds are present.

Here's what you would need to do to prove that "a cube is a cube."
1. Successfully identify all chemical compounds within each "strain" of cubensis
2. Trace each strain's chemical compounds back to the genes that coded for them
3. Show that each strain of cubensis contains the same genes

Here's why you can't do that:

Chemical composition directly correlates to genetics that directly correlates to heredity. In other words, since there are different genetics, there are different chemicals. No one can tell me that there aren't different genetics involved in the different strains.

My point is that there are many different chemicals in many different concentrations that give rise to the experience of a "mushroom trip." Even the slightest variation among the chemicals can create vastly different experiences. The chemical compositions of mushrooms are based on heredity, as are their physical appearances.

Quit spouting "a cube is a cube," please.


Edited by CaptainAhab (11/26/10 04:51 PM)


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Invisiblemonkiman
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Re: How different cubensis strains differentiate themselves regarding their effects? [Re: CaptainAhab]
    #13545544 - 11/26/10 10:35 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

wow :thumbup: now that is the best explanation that i heard so far, that made sense and i now understand why it is such a touchy subject.


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OfflinePrimalSoup
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Re: How different cubensis strains differentiate themselves regarding their effects? [Re: CaptainAhab]
    #13545805 - 11/26/10 11:42 PM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Indeed, fungi are older than plants, although both may be considerably older than previously believed, as fossil evidence is notoriously hard to interpret. 

I agree genetics determine mushroom yield, potency, and distribution among active alkaloids - but a certain amount of what people attribute to differences between "strains" of any one species is down to expectation.

Differences between species themselves are far more pronounced, although there are (of course) people who claim there isn't really any. 

There are people who claim you can't isolate for potency as well...which must be true. :wink: I've certainly never done it. :wink: :wink: Because it's impossible. :wink: :wink: :wink: I mean, why bother?

And even if you could you'd never be able to test the differences without a shed full of quantitative analysis equipment. :wink: Because nobody can do a valid bioassay on multiple samples. :wink: :wink:  Because it's impossible, see. :wink: :wink: :wink:  OK?

Suppose you just grow out a random isolate from each of a number of strains, and test these on yourself and your friends.  And then you come to "conclusions" about strain differences, much like the original post.  What you didn't (apparently) do was grow out an equal number of random isolates from just one strain, and test those on yourself and your friends - to establish a baseline of random variations.

And I'm not even going to speculate about multispore growing in this regard.

Though I suspect there may be differences, even replicable differences (because otherwise selection for valued characteristics doesn't work - although we generally know it does work, by narrowing the genetic variability) it's nigh impossible to prove.  This is why both points of view survive.

Peace
-PS


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