Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Political Discussion
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   North Spore Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]
GUNS
    #1353923 -

there are debates in here all the time about gun-related topics. they've often missed the point or gotten onto a debate about the meaning of the second amendment, etc. second amendment aside, let us debate this issue on more philosophical terms than legal ones. should civilian adults (in any nation) be permitted to own weapons? should there be restrictions? what should those restrictions be?

i say that yes, adult civilians who have not commited violent crimes should be permitted to own weapons. on this point, i think we would all agree. i think all of us also agree that there should also be restrictions. the difference is where we would set the restrictions. some here would probably restrict "weapons" to meaning only edged weapons, peppers spray, and blunt objects. some would say no handguns. some no assault rifles.

i myself think that restrictions on the weapons people may own should be very, very relaxed. i think i, as a peaceful citizen, have a right to own an assault rifle. at the same time, i also have a right to be secure in knowing that my neighbor does not have an atom bomb (or vial of anthrax, or ton of TNT).

i think the deciding factor in whether or not a weapon should be legal or not is how much damage a willing person could easily cause with it before being stopped. no one should be allowed to own "weapons of mass destruction", or even large amounts of explosives. but most, if not all, firearms should be legal.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: ]
    #1353957 -

We're in agreement, kind of. However, rather than go with your limitations on weapons based on how much damage can be done with them, I'll propose a different solution:

Ban all weapons that do not require direct action to set off. I will clarify this. Guns require a person to pull the trigger. All guns from assault rifles and machine guns to muzzle loading rifles have this characteristic.
Barring what you might have seen in movies, it is impossible or next to impossible to set up such weapons to be automatically triggered and take out mass amounts of people while you're 1000 miles away.
That said, objects such as explosives, biological and chemical weapons, and automatic turrets (if they exist) should be either illegal or heavily restricted.
I hope I've made this clear. Basically it means if you want to use a legal weapon, it must be a weapon which requires you to be present as well.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: ]
    #1353979 -

I believe people should have to get a license to own any firearm, just like you have to have a license to drive, because I believe that, like driving, gun ownership should be a privilege, not a right. You would have to pass a gun safety test and a background check in order to get the license. There should also be specialized licenses you'd have to get to own more dangerous firearms, such as assault rifles and fully automatic guns.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: silversoul7]
    #1353982 -

?This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!? - Adolph Hitler, April 15, 1935

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: Anonymous]
    #1353985 -

Getting a license to own a gun isn't the same thing as registration.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: silversoul7]
    #1354002 -

actually, it effectively is.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: Anonymous]
    #1354038 -

stonedfish writes:

Ban all weapons that do not require direct action to set off. I will clarify this. Guns require a person to pull the trigger. All guns from assault rifles and machine guns to muzzle loading rifles have this characteristic.

There is another characteristic that must be considered -- selectiveness. Firearms target selectively. Bombs, nerve gas, nukes, anthrax etc. by their nature cannot reliably be targeted selectively.

The ethical justification for individual ownership of weaponry can only be for hunting and for self-defense. In order to defend one's SELF (and family), one must be able to disable an attacker or a few attackers. If the group attacking you is too large to hold off with an assault rifle, you are no longer in a self-defence situation, you are in a WAR situation, and that's what the military is for.

pinky


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: silversoul7]
    #1354144 -

Quote:
Getting a license to own a gun isn't the same thing as registration


Explain this please...hiter-esque


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1354254 -

registration is bullshit -- the goverment has no right to know if you own guns.
it is your RIGHT.

the feds have fucked me.
they already have my prints and know I have a conceald weapon permit.
it's a catch 22-- carry the gun legally--have to get a license and submit prints to local and state law and to the feds


--------------------
"A politician is like a baby's diaper, it should be changed often and for the same reason"-Coy Turner Sr.

"what is a weed, a plant whose virtues have not yet been discovered"--Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I'm sippin Hennessy, riding on my muthafucking enemies" -Meek Mill.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: joe666]
    #1354282 -

Quote:
the goverment has no right to know if you own guns.it is your RIGHT


Unfortunatly there are many here that find individual rights to be subjective.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: silversoul7]
    #1354298 -

this doesn't have much to do with your post... i'd like to point out that even if every single manufactured gun could be eliminated from the land, criminals could still aquire deadly projectile weapons. a crude yet deadly shotgun can be made with a few dollars worth of pipes and a couple other items from a hardware store. during the wars in southeast and southwest asia, local artisans were able to produce, from scratch, workable copies of AK-47s and other weapons in backyard foundries. hell... people have made crude but effective guns in prison before. a gun is just a mechanical device... and it can be a rather simple on at that. it's a tube with an opening at one end and and an explosive charge and projectile at the other. it could be even more simple than that. i'm sure we've all heard of someone making a gun that shoots potatoes via hairspray or compressed air. hell... a paintball gun would require very little, if any modification to become a deadly weapon... we all know that a nasty little firebomb can be made with items as easily attainable as a little gasoline, a glass bottle, and a rag. i wonder if anyone has ever thought of using one of those water balloon slingshots to throw molotov cocktails? people can very easily make rather deadly weapons from readily available materials. the only thing gun "control" does is make it harder for regular folks to defend themselves.

and that's presuming that all of the guns in america could be eliminated in the first place. gun control would work about as well, and have the same (but probably more severe), problems associated with drug control. (and even if it could work, i sure as hell wouldn't want the government to be the only ones with the guns). we can and should prevent any random joe from getting his hands on a ton of high explosive or a heavy artillery piece, but gun control? come on... people are going to be able to get (or make) weapons no matter what.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1354306 -

Quote:
Quote:
Getting a license to own a gun isn't the same thing as registration


Explain this please...hiter-esque 


Well, go to the DMV, and ask them what the difference is between getting your driver's licence and registering a vehicle.

Edit:  Oh ya, and that's really mature of you comparing me to Hitler.  :smirk:


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

Edited by silversoul7 (03/06/03 07:08 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: silversoul7]
    #1354336 -

you don't register the gun, you register as a gun owner... that's what you're talking about with licensing... you do see the blatant flaw in trying to say that there is a difference between having to register a gun you own and registering yourself as a gun owner, right?

either way... the effect is the same... the government knows you've got a gun. registration has to happen for disarmament to happen... they get everyone to register, or get a license... everyone says, "oh, that's ok.. no big deal, at least i can still own a gun"... and then a few years down the line, they know exactly who to come for when they want to disarm the populace. fuck that. when i buy a gun, it's gonna be from my boy jose on the corner, and uncle sam ain't gonna know about it. that brings up another point... do you think criminals will obey this licensing rule?

i agree with what you're saying. people should have training in and respect for firearms before they can buy them, but you gotta be realistic... if the government forces people to get a license to have a gun... it's just another big brother tactic.

you have a license not to operate a car, but to use the road. the government built that road (albeit with our money). guns are a little different.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: silversoul7]
    #1354344 -

Quote:
Well, go to the DMV, and ask them what the difference is between getting your driver's licence and registering a vehicle.


not the same thing.

Quote:
Edit: Oh ya, and that's really mature of you comparing me to Hitler.


quit yer whining, i was saying that gun registration is hiter-esque, jesus are all people these days sooo sensative?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: ]
    #1354392 -

Alright then. How 'bout instead of a license, you just have to have a certification card, like how you have to have a First Aid certification card to perform First Aid on someone. That way you just show the card when you buy a gun, and they won't track you. They'll just know that you know about gun safety.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: silversoul7]
    #1354428 -

so it would be anonymous? and when i went to the class to get it, would the class be anonymous? could i pay cash?

what would keep someone from lending their card to other people? or just going to the class repeatedly, getting the cards, and selling them to people?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: ]
    #1354438 -

Quote:
so it would be anonymous? and when i went to the class to get it, would the class be anonymous? could i pay cash?


Dude, you're being WAY too paranoid. And yes, you could pay cash.
Quote:
what would keep someone from lending their card to other people? or just going to the class repeatedly, getting the cards, and selling them to people?


It would have your name on the card. You would have to sign it. Of course people would find loopholes, but this is more about gun safety than about keeping guns out of the hands of criminals.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

Edited by silversoul7 (03/06/03 07:58 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: silversoul7]
    #1354458 -

then it wouldn't be anonymous, and hence, it would accomplish the same thing as registration...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: ]
    #1354485 -

Look, it wouldn't be registering you as a gun owner. It would only certify that you know how to operate a gun safely. Can't you see the difference? A person who gets certified wouldn't necessarily own a gun, but if they wanted to, they could. It's not like it would have a tracking device on it or anything. Damn, you people are paranoid...


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: silversoul7]
    #1354518 -

alright... i can see how you might think it's paranoid. i just don't think it's the governments business to know if i own a gun. i don't think they should. in trying to provide an anonymous system for mandatory gun education for those who wish to purchase guns, you don't seem to have a problem with that.

i too think that gun education should be mandatory for those who wish to own guns... hell, if not just for safe use... if you're gonna buy a gun, it'd be good to know how to actually USE it effectively in a tactical situation... i know i'd take a course if i bought a gun...

and i've thought about it before... if it would be possible for such education to be mandatory, yet anonymous, and i just don't think it is. i've thought about the same ideas as yours before, but they just aren't anonymous. the Man would still know you've got a gun... and come on... who's gonna pay a few hundred dollars for a course if they don't plan on buying a gun? it's a good idea... but it lets them know you've got a gun.... and i just don't think that's something they should know.

i don't disagree with you 100%... having such a license wouldn't nessecarily mean that you do own a gun... if my paranoid vision ever did come to pass, and they went after "license holders" asking them for their guns... they could very well just say they don't have any. it's sure alot better than having to register the gun itself. not a bad idea... but it's a restriction, and a pointless one at that. law-abiding citizens would be forced to spend time and money, and give their name to the government, to be able to buy protection for themselves. i don't think that's right. what about poor folk who live in shitty neighborhoods who can barely afford a much-needed firearm to protect themself? should they have to pay for a few hundred dollars for a course? and on top of that, this wouldn't effect criminals who buy guns on the black market anyway.

most people who buy guns have been taught by someone how to use them anyway. my dad taught me how to use and care for a gun, and i'm sure it's like that with alot of folks who want to buy guns. i shouldn't be required by law to pay for a course which i don't want to take which won't teach me anything, and nor should anyone else.

what sorts of things do you think they should teach in these courses?

Edited by mushmaster (03/06/03 08:33 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: silversoul7]
    #1354524 -

it would be like if the government required you to take a course about sex when you hit puberty...

oh wait.. .there's sex ed in high school... at least it's free though.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: ]
    #1354548 -

Why do you need anonymity for owning a gun? The government can check to see if you are being held responsible for a vehicle(registered in your name).


--------------------

"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: silversoul7]
    #1354562 -

Quote:
Alright then. How 'bout instead of a license, you just have to have a certification card, like how you have to have a First Aid certification card to perform First Aid on someone. That way you just show the card when you buy a gun, and they won't track you. They'll just know that you know about gun safety.


I am extremely pro-gun but I see absolutely nothing wrong with this idea.

Great thought!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: sir tripsalot]
    #1354567 -

because registration makes it much easier for the government to disarm the populace. it may seem paranoid to you, but i assure you, it's not. there's no reason to have to register when you buy a gun. if "registering" was an unfortunate side-effect of taking a mandatory gun safety course, that would be a little different.

but come on... a program to teach people responsible, careful, use of firearms? correct me if i'm wrong here, but i was under the impression that the vast majority of killings with guns are intentional, and when they are accidents, it's usually someone other than the owner having the "accident". i don't think such programs have any purpose. you can teach yourself anything you ever wanted to know about gun safety without having to pay a few hundred dollars for a course and giving the government your name. just read the damn owner's manual.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: ]
    #1354662 -

Quote:
it may seem paranoid to you, but i assure you, it's not.



it may seem legitmate to hide the fact you have a gun, but i assure you, it's not.


--------------------

"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: sir tripsalot]
    #1354688 -

maybe you missed this from before in this thread...

?This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!? - Adolph Hitler, April 15, 1935



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: sir tripsalot]
    #1354714 -

people who support gun control usually do it with the same blind conviction as those who support the drug war.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: ]
    #1354741 -

Oh, another Hitler- Bush comparison.


--------------------

"Little racoons and old possums 'n' stuff all live up in here. They've got to have a little place to sit." Bob Ross.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: sir tripsalot]
    #1354752 -

how was that in any way a comparison of hitler to bush?

Edited by mushmaster (03/06/03 09:54 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: ]
    #1354786 -

I think the point is that it's an ad-hominem argument. It's saying that because Hitler was for gun control that it makes gun control wrong, which isn't necessarily true.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: ]
    #1354825 -

Don't know if anyone's posted this yet or not but:

Here in Canada, you need a licence to own or use a firearm of any kind.

The only exception I know of is that you are alowed to use a firearm if and only if under the direct supervision of a licenced adult.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: ]
    #1354848 -

I come from Australia (please don't hold that against me :smile:)  We have gun registration, gun licenses, we are very limited in the weapons we are allowed to own, and we have a low gun mortality rate.  I myself see nothing wrong with gun ownership.  I quite like guns. As an outsider  I find that many Americans want guns for protection.  "I need a gun to defend myself," "Without a gun, how will I defend my family?"  Defend yourself from who?  It is almost as if you are afraid of everyone.  Your neighbours, people down the street,  all those rapists/thieves/murderers/drug using terrorists that are hiding out there waiting to get you, the police, the military, and your obviously all terrified of your own government (with good reason.)  Land of the Free?  In your fucking dreams!  I worry about what will happen to you all in the future because your country seems stuck in a downward spiral.  I've said before, feel free to move to Australia, it's a great country.  Look me up, we can go hunting :smile:       


--------------------
MushyMay is a fictional character, as a result any information provided by MushyMay is also fictitious.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: silversoul7]
    #1354986 -

No but it's one of many examples from history of a ruthless dictator disarming a country.

And I odn't know if the gun certification argument is over or what, but I had an idea in another thread a while back that I stick by. Require all middle and high schools have gun safety classes, and make those classes requirements for continuation. The entire population would at least be aware of the uses and dangers of a firearm, and we would not have any issues with the government watching gun owners or potential gun owners.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: Anonymous]
    #1355034 -

Quote:
Require all middle and high schools have gun safety classes, and make those classes requirements for continuation.





I don't know about middle school, but definetly high school. I like the idea.


--------------------
Re-Defeat Bush in '04

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: ]
    #1355053 -

What do you call weapons of mass destruction?


People in the US who have a WMD permit pay out the ass every year in insurance and taxes witch go to teach hunters ed.
These people are less of a threat than someone with a marlin 22.


--------------------

You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: Chills420 version2]
    #1355076 -

WMD = nuclear weapons, radioactive material, biological weapon agents, chemical weapon agents, poisons, large quantities of explosives, heavy artillery, etc.... an AR-15 is not a weapon of mass destruction.

and about these "gun safety" courses... i still do not see why people think they are neccesary. most people who buy guns know what they're doing. gun safety is about common sense. if you're stupid enough to point a gun at someone just because you think it's not loaded, you're just an idiot and no 2 hour course is gonna change that...

there's just no reason to require gun safety courses and licensing. operating a car is dangerous and requires a reasonable level of skill to do safely. operating a gun safely just requires common sense. when people die from car "accidents", it's usually because someone wasn't trained well enough or it was otherwise unpreventable. when people die from shootings, it's intentional. when it's an accident, it's rarely the owner who is operating the gun... and when it is... it's because s\he was being a complete moron. there's no need for mandatory training. it's a burden and a restriction and it serves no purpose.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: ]
    #1355089 -

Ok I just wondered.
To the ATF a sawed off shotgun is a WMD


--------------------

You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: ]
    #1355295 -

If I may steal an idea from Chris Rock...

Instead of gun control, lets have bullet control--make bullets cost $5000. Then, if someone gets shot, you KNOW they must've done something to really piss someone off. It'd be like, "Man, I would blow you fuckin head off!--if I could afford it."


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: Anonymous]
    #1355526 -

?This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!? - Adolph Hitler, April 15, 1935

LOL!  :grin: :grin: :grin:

Hitler never said this. It's a notorious fraud the pro-gun lobby people made up.

Interestingly the weimar republic passed laws in 1928 to try and restrict gun ownership to stop the rise of Hitlers armed private armies. If they had done it 10 years earlier it's likely Hitler would have never come to power.

Hitler wasn't particularly interested in gun control - the first time he bothered to address the issue was in 1938 - 5 years after he came to power when he added a small amendment to the laws the weimar republic had already introduced.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: Anonymous]
    #1355535 -

No but it's one of many examples from history of a ruthless dictator disarming a country.

I'd recomend some more reading before trusting what the pro-gun lobby tell you.

http://rkba.org/research/rkba.faq

The "Hitler" Quote That Wouldn't Die: "1935 Will Go Down In History!"
--
"This year* will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized
nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our
police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the
future!"
--falsely attributed to Adolf Hitler, "Abschied vom Hessenland!"
["Farewell to Hessia!"], ['Berlin Daily' (Loose English Translation)],
April 15th, 1935, Page 3 Article 2, Einleitung Von Eberhard Beckmann
[Introduction by Eberhard Beckmann]

This quotation, often seen without any date or citation at all,
suffers from several credibility problems, the most significant
of which is that the date given (*in alternate versions, the
words "This year..." are replaced by "1935...") has no correlation
with any legislative effort by the Nazis for gun registration,
nor would there have been a need for the Nazis to pass such a
law, since gun registration laws passed by the Weimar government
were already in effect. The Nazi Weapons Law (or_Waffengesetz_)
which further restricted the possession of militarily useful
weapons and forbade trade in weapons without a government-issued
license was passed on March 18, 1938.
The citation usually given for this quote is a jumbled mess,
and has only three major clues from which to work. The first is
the date, which does not correspond (even approximately) to a date
on which Hitler made a public speech, and a check of the texts of
Hitler's speeches does not reveal a quotation resembling this
(which is easily understandable when you realize that "Hitler"
is commenting on a non-existent law). The second clue is the
newspaper reference, which if translated into German resembles the
title of a newspaper called _Berliner Tageblatt,_ and a check of
the issue for that date reveals that the page and column references
given are to the arts and culture page! No Hitler speech appears
in the pages of _Berliner Tageblatt_ on that date, or dates close
to it, because there was no such speech to report. Finally,
the citation includes a proper name "Eberhard Beckmann," which
is sometimes cited as "by Einleitung Von Eberhard Beckmann,"
which is an important clue itself, because it reveals that the
citation was fabricated by someone who had so little knowledge of
the German language that they were unaware that "Einleitung"
isn't the fellow's first name! The only "Eberhard Beckmann"
which has been uncovered thus far did indeed write introductions,
but he was a journalist for a German broadcasting company after
WWII, and he wrote several introductions to_photography books,_
one of which was photos of the German state of Hesse (or Hessia),
which may be the source of the curious phrase "Abschied vom
Hessenland!" which appears in the citation. This quotation,
however effective it may be as propaganda, is a fraud.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: ]
    #1355570 -

The historical records show that guns, used at the direction and under control of governments have taken more lives than all murders and accidents with guns in the hands of private citizens.

Perhaps it is governments who should be disarmed.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: silversoul7]
    #1355653 -

Quote:
If I may steal an idea from Chris Rock...

Instead of gun control, lets have bullet control--make bullets cost $5000.  Then, if someone gets shot, you KNOW they must've done something to really piss someone off.  It'd be like, "Man, I would blow you fuckin head off!--if I could afford it." 


That would work
+ I have reloading equipment
I'll sell them for 2500 a box. :grin: :grin:
I think I'll call them The value violence pack 


--------------------

You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: silversoul7]
    #1355789 -

Quote:
I believe people should have to get a license to own any firearm, just like you have to have a license to drive, because I believe that, like driving, gun ownership should be a privilege, not a right. 



You only have to have a driver's liscense to use public roads. You can drive around in your back yard all day without a liscense.

I'll agree with you as far as I think you should have to have a liscense to use a gun on a public highway.  :grin:


--------------------
https://www.gofundme.com/f/support-for-renee-goods-wife-and-son

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: Xlea321]
    #1355897 -

No, Alex. That article was never written. It's notorious fraud the anti-gun lobby made up.

How about this one? You have any more bullshit articles to feed me saying Himmler never existed?

?Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA - ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the state.? - Heinrich Himmler

Thank your lucky stars that you aren't speaking German because of gun registration.

Edit: That article does little to prove that Hitler never said that phrase. Quotes are miswriten and edited all the time for the sake of clarity. Is it too much to hope for that you will ever see through the lies you so enthusiastically spout?

Edited by stonedfish (03/07/03 12:38 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: Anonymous]
    #1356148 -

anti gun people really kill me.

They go on this big kick about how guns r bad and kill people.

Let's say for a second that something happens in the states and shit goes crazy.

How will you protect yourself,wife and kids? I guess the question is actually would you stand up to fight or would you sit and say nothing.

I for 1 would do my best to protect my fam & what others lost there lives for.
If you don't the true spirit of america is broken.
I'd rather die in a puddle of blood than sit and do nothing.
Atleast then when it's all said and done people can say he stood up.

The day they start taking guns will be the day they shoot me dead.







--------------------

You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: Chills420 version2]
    #1356172 -

Pro gun people - Wisen up and end the cycle of violence. You can never be truly at PEACE with a gun in your hand.



--------------------
Always Smi2le

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: Anonymous]
    #1356175 -

That article does little to prove that Hitler never said that phrase

It does to anyone with even the faintest trace of an open mind.

Is it too much to hope for that you will ever see through the lies you so enthusiastically spout?

This is rich  :grin: So you give a totally fraudulent qoute that Hitler never made, I point out it's a lie, yet I'M the one spouting lies? That's your story right?

Typical of that bizarre brand of lunacy exhibited by the right wing shroomery contingent...


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: GazzBut]
    #1356240 -

Quote:
Pro gun people - Wisen up and end the cycle of violence.


Guns are tools, they are not the cause of cycles of violence. Human action is required. I have owned guns and been around guns all my life and never once were the guns I've owned or had access to used agressively against another person. None of them has been fired at another human being, not even when used in self defense.
Quote:
You can never be truly at PEACE with a gun in your hand.


Wrong, maybe YOU can never be truly at peace with a gun in your hand. But that's probably because you don't understand them and you fear them. I can sleep like a baby with a gun right next to me.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

Edited by Evolving (03/07/03 04:06 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: Xlea321]
    #1356352 -

Quote:
It does to anyone with even the faintest trace of an open mind.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You accuse me of not having an open mind!

You pointed out no lie, you brought up another wacko conspiracy theory. And you said nothing of the Himmler quote. You do know who Heinrich Himmler is, don't you?

Quote:
Typical of that bizarre brand of lunacy exhibited by the right wing shroomery contingent...


Thank you, Hillary Clinton.

Edited by stonedfish (03/07/03 04:52 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: GazzBut]
    #1356368 -

Quote:
Pro gun people - Wisen up and end the cycle of violence. You can never be truly at PEACE with a gun in your hand.


Check out this link already posted by luvdemshrooms: Summit over 35% gun crime rise

Maybe you should "wisen up" and realize that guns have uses other than killing pregnant mothers with cute babies.

Edited by stonedfish (03/07/03 05:15 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: Anonymous]
    #1356780 -

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! You accuse me of not having an open mind!

How else can you describe it? You read a quote on a pro-gun board and instantly believe it and start quoting it yourself. Someone points out it's a notorious fraud and you refuse to accept it. I think that's about as closed a mind as you can possibly get.

you brought up another wacko conspiracy theory

The only conspiracy theory is that Hitler said that line. If you can find a shred of evidence supporting it (apart from "duh..some dood like wrote it on a pro-gun board like dood..") then let us have it.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: Xlea321]
    #1356787 -

i said this in another thread, and i'll say it here. alex, it doesn't matter to me whether or not he actually said that quote. it sure sounds like something hitler would say. gun contol is fascist authoritarian bullshit.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: ]
    #1357064 -

Isn't it better to believe the truth rather than made up lies tho? Or would you prefer to believe the lies?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: Xlea321]
    #1357133 -

Quote:
I think that's about as closed a mind as you can possibly get.


75% Alpo, 75%.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: Xlea321]
    #1357191 -

Isn't it better to believe the truth rather than made up lies tho?

yes, al... yes it is...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: GazzBut]
    #1357195 -

Quote:
Pro gun people - Wisen up and end the cycle of violence. You can never be truly at PEACE with a gun in your hand.





Maybe not but I can put some mother fuckers in pices

Quote:
Wisen up and end the cycle of violence.



If you wana see violence take guns away.
You'll have a new civil war.


--------------------

You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.


Edited by Chills420 version2 (03/08/03 01:28 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: Chills420 version2]
    #1357203 -

I for 1 would do my best to protect my fam & what others lost there lives for.
If you don't the true spirit of america is broken.
I'd rather die in a puddle of blood than sit and do nothing.
Atleast then when it's all said and done people can say he stood up.

The day they start taking guns will be the day they shoot me dead.

For the record this is where I stand as well.  I do not like guns.  I do not get a thrill out of owning one.  I don't need a gun to make me feel like a real man.  My wife doesn't like guns either.

But, and there is no getting around this.  They are needed where we live for self-defense.

Come in my house uninvited and unannounced and you will be fired upon, period.  If I perceive you as a threat to my family I will shoot you dead.  Make no mistake about that.

I find it odd that those who would strip us of the means to defend ourselves are the very same ones who side with the Communists in the war against Iraq.  Now, I am not for that war but it it makes me a little uneasy to know that people against the right to self-defense stand with the Communists on a very important issue.  :crazy:

Unfortunately I have been attacked more times than I can count.  Sometimes merely from being in a wrong neighborhood.  I am a fairly large man, 6' 3" 220 lbs., and there has always been some little shit that thought he needed to "try me".

The statistics on peace in a place where guns are prevalent are pretty well established.  Here in America most of the violence occurs in large cities where people are not allowed to have guns or use them.  Other countries have a different atmosphere and may not need them.

But, as Rono and MANY MANY MANY MANY others have pointed out this country is currently being run by someone that many consider a madman.  With things like the Patriot Act I and II and Homeland Security how would you place us in the hands of the United States government, which you declare as desperately wicked, AND AT THE SAME TIME DENY US THE RIGHT TO DEFEND OURSELVES FROM THAT GOVERNMENT?!?!?!?!

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

:frown: :frown: :frown: :frown: 

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: Xlea321]
    #1357269 -

Alex, you've supported claims that have been proven false through thick and thin, REPEATEDLY. You are the reason why the left will never gain much ground in America, because we recognize blind ignorance when we see it. Sorry, but even Bush could run rings around you ina debate.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: ]
    #1357306 -

Quote:
...this country is currently being run by someone that many consider a madman. With things like the Patriot Act I and II and Homeland Security how would you place us in the hands of the United States government, which you declare as desperately wicked, AND AT THE SAME TIME DENY US THE RIGHT TO DEFEND OURSELVES FROM THAT GOVERNMENT?!?!?!?!


You realize that common sense carries no weight with those who's analysis of issues ends at their first emotional reaction don't you? :wink: 


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: Anonymous]
    #1357391 -

>This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun
>registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will
>follow our lead into the future!? - Adolph Hitler, April 15, 1935

You might want to read this about this urban legend:
http://www.urbanlegends.com/politics/hitler_gun_control.html


--------------------
Grow Mushrooms from Spores - PF-Tek for Simple Minds

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: Anno]
    #1357405 -

Excellent article, Anno! I've watched a lot of History Channel, and have never once seen any reference to Nazi gun control.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: Anno]
    #1357414 -

Alex posted that same article. Its three main arguments cast doubt upon the quote, at best. The article sure as hell doesn't disprove anything.

First, the author brings up that the quote is often altered to include the date, rather than just leaving it at the end. Quotes are very often edited in such a way, to save time and space. That is why we have brackets [].

Second, the author argues that there was no speech made by Hitler on or near April 15, 1935. He is assuming everything Hitler said was in a speech, which is damn near one of the dumbest assumtions ever.

Third, the author relies on misspellings of German names and other typos to solidify his case.

All this is a pathetic attempt to dismiss a quote with which the author disagrees. He offers NO proof that this quote was never uttered. Finally, if you think the jist of the quote was wrong, here's another:
?Germans who wish to use firearms should join the SS or the SA - ordinary citizens don't need guns, as their having guns doesn't serve the state.? - Heinrich Himmler

I have replied to Alex with all this information before, and his rebuttles have been nothing but name calling. I hope you can do better.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: Anonymous]
    #1357421 -

But what the article DOES point out is that if the quote is real, it's referring to a non-existant law.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: Anonymous]
    #1357437 -

All this is a pathetic attempt to dismiss a quote with which the author disagrees

You've said this already. Can you provide the slightest evidence that Hitler said this or that the Nazi's passed a law relating to gun control in 1935?

and his rebuttles have been nothing but name calling

I think you're the one coming out with most of the insults son. Lets cut to the chase - can you provide a single shred of evidence that Hitler said this?


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: silversoul7]
    #1357438 -

no correlation with any legislative effort by the Nazis for gun registration, nor would there have been a need for the Nazis to pass such a law, since gun registration laws passed by the Weimar government (in part to address street violence between Nazis and Communists!) were already in effect. The Nazi Weapons Law (or_Waffengesetz_) which further restricted the possession of militarily useful weapons and forbade trade in weapons without a government-issued license was passed on March 18, 1938.

Sounds like it was a law to me, and it is full gun registration - every single firearm out there can be construed as a "militarily useful weapon."

That said, I just did a litle research, and the orginization Jews for the Preservation of Firearm Ownership (JPFO) has acknowledged the quote as not false, but unproven. Though it pains me to say so, Alex was right, Anno was right, and the quote has been deleted from my archieves. However, I stumbled upon a real quote with the same principle:

Der gr??te Unsinn, den man in den besetzen Ostgebieten machen k?nnte, sei der, den unterworfenen V?lkern Waffen zu geben. Die Geschichte lehre, da? alle Herrenv?lker untergegangen seien, nachdem sie den von ihnen unterworfenen Volkern Waffen bewilligt hatten.

[The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to permit the conquered Eastern peoples to have arms. History teaches that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by doing so.]
-- Adolf Hitler (1889-1945), April 11, 1942, quoted in Hitlers Tischegesprache Im Fuhrerhauptquartier 1941-1942. [Hitler's Table-Talk at the Fuhrer's Headquarters 1941-1942], Dr. Henry Picker, ed. (Athenaum-Verlag, Bonn, 1951)

From http://www.jpfo.org/faq.htm#faq02

Edited by stonedfish (03/08/03 04:38 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: Anonymous]
    #1358001 -

maybe if we search we can find a WWII historian <(spelling not sure)

and maybe get to the bottom of this. They might beable to link us to something that will put some light on this


--------------------

You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: GUNS [Re: Evolving]
    #1359191 -

Yeah, I got that Bro.  I also see it got real quiet on that part of the issue. :wink:

:laugh:

Think.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4  [ show all ]

Shop: Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   North Spore Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

General Interest > Political Discussion
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Someone stated gun registry didn't lead to arbitrary confiscation. nakors_junk_bag 645 5 12/12/05 03:09 PM
by nakors_junk_bag
* Canada's firearms registry: The issue isn't gun wingnutx 633 1 07/23/03 10:35 PM
by pattern
* Whither Gun Control? luvdemshrooms 1,507 12 05/23/04 07:23 AM
by Xlea321
* 40 Reasons For Gun Control
( 1 2 all )		 Ellis Dee 5,991 31 10/08/13 02:05 AM
by Therian
* Thank god for gun ownership...
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )		 Xlea321 6,254 86 10/22/02 12:47 AM
by Boglyn
* Idiotic Gun Laws
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )		 The14thWarrior 7,260 94 10/13/05 02:12 PM
by Mushmonkey
* Guns and Liberals
( 1 2 3 4 all )		 luvdemshrooms 4,480 70 08/22/03 10:09 AM
by st0nedphucker
* Saddams sons killed in "gun-battle"?
( 1 2 3 4 ... 12 13 all )		 Xlea321 14,053 243 07/27/03 03:14 PM
by shakta

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Enlil, ballsalsa
4,850 topic views. 0 members, 0 guests and 5 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.043 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 14 queries.