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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Disbelievers in the spiritual and mystical side of things...
    #13531484 - 11/23/10 06:05 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Will they ever recant their beliefs?  What would be required for such a paradigm shift?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineBobFromReboot
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Male

Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 261
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: Disbelievers in the spiritual and mystical side of things... [Re: deCypher]
    #13531494 - 11/23/10 06:07 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Brain damage.

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Offlinethe bizzle
the joke that no one spoke


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 11,870
Loc: :seriousbusiness:
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Disbelievers in the spiritual and mystical side of things... [Re: BobFromReboot]
    #13531501 - 11/23/10 06:08 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

who cares


--------------------
MY HAIR IS A BIRD 
YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID


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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Disbelievers in the spiritual and mystical side of things... [Re: the bizzle]
    #13531510 - 11/23/10 06:10 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Sigh... why post in this thread if you have nothing constructive to offer?

I'm just curious because even experience itself seems unlikely to shake some people's convictions if they can just rationalize it away as mere flukes of brain chemistry.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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OfflineBobFromReboot
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Male

Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 261
Last seen: 9 years, 7 months
Re: Disbelievers in the spiritual and mystical side of things... [Re: deCypher]
    #13531524 - 11/23/10 06:12 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Exactly, the part of brain with rational thought would have to be wiped out. There is no going back to my childhood beliefs.

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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!


Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: Disbelievers in the spiritual and mystical side of things... [Re: BobFromReboot] * 1
    #13531542 - 11/23/10 06:15 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

it does not matter

when they are ready they will

do not think in the way that

one life is all there is ,

if that is so , why did michael jackson get to be him, that is a weird fate yeah ? no amount of reasoning can disprove reincarnation, as the realm of spirit IS science .

reincarnation meaning more accurately REBIRTH, SOW AND REAP ,
people become what they have already created either in the lives of others [ so therefore create only good in others experience, as all is us ] ( horrible rebirths in the case of negatives, into great suffering ) , or as themselves,

and/or a myriad of wanting to , and / or needing to learn a lie about specific lessons to complete soul growth ,

remember , spirituality is a science, much of this information is recorded in the buddhist teachings

the source of knowing is inside us , how to get there takes a lot of work and time,

so those people that don't believe don't need to , and may not , until another life.

to open minds to spiritual idea, accepting spiritual values, speak with equanimity if warranted and allowed

the basis of spirit is faith, which splits into dogma or realization of a truth,
realization of a truth creates spiritual teachings, spiritual teachings create masters of light and consciousness, or dogma,

for instnace, if one chants the gayatri mantra they will know traveling through the universe, based upon what th esages wrote of the mantra,
this only reuires patience and faith , and enoyment

but faith in someone else chanting it for you is like the modern day western lazy way to god, which is a dead end on a merry go round with many tool boothes and clowns, and a total not , so , ing, newss, to the ways christ EXMEPLIFIED WITH A PATH

the way to enlighten a religious christian is to show them bible passages that speak about the real nature of things, such as the kingdom of god is within you

if they eye be single they body is full of light, etc, but they will either say nuh-uh, or , be interested, hence equanimity is needed.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

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InvisibledeCypher
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Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
Re: Disbelievers in the spiritual and mystical side of things... [Re: leery11]
    #13531567 - 11/23/10 06:20 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

leery11 said:
so those people that don't believe don't need to , and may not , until another life.




Right, I'm not saying that anyone needs to believe anything; I'm just curious what would be necessary to change such a person's mind.

Edit: you're saying faith is necessary for spirituality?


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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InvisibleParkseerf
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Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 1,611
Loc: Louisiana
Re: Disbelievers in the spiritual and mystical side of things... [Re: deCypher]
    #13531598 - 11/23/10 06:24 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

deCypher said:
Quote:

leery11 said:
so those people that don't believe don't need to , and may not , until another life.




Right, I'm not saying that anyone needs to believe anything; I'm just curious what would be necessary to change such a person's mind.




Psychedelics:shrug: lol Its pretty crazy that you just asked this, i was just having a discussion with my family about something of this sort. And i was thinking pretty much the exact thing you asked:sun:

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Offlineretrospect
Registered: 01/07/07
Posts: 1,340
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
Re: Disbelievers in the spiritual and mystical side of things... [Re: leery11]
    #13532360 - 11/23/10 08:47 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

leery11 said:
it does not matter

when they are ready they will

do not think in the way that

one life is all there is ,

if that is so , why did michael jackson get to be him, that is a weird fate yeah ? no amount of reasoning can disprove reincarnation, as the realm of spirit IS science .

reincarnation meaning more accurately REBIRTH, SOW AND REAP ,
people become what they have already created either in the lives of others [ so therefore create only good in others experience, as all is us ] ( horrible rebirths in the case of negatives, into great suffering ) , or as themselves,

and/or a myriad of wanting to , and / or needing to learn a lie about specific lessons to complete soul growth ,

remember , spirituality is a science, much of this information is recorded in the buddhist teachings

the source of knowing is inside us , how to get there takes a lot of work and time,

so those people that don't believe don't need to , and may not , until another life.

to open minds to spiritual idea, accepting spiritual values, speak with equanimity if warranted and allowed

the basis of spirit is faith, which splits into dogma or realization of a truth,
realization of a truth creates spiritual teachings, spiritual teachings create masters of light and consciousness, or dogma,

for instnace, if one chants the gayatri mantra they will know traveling through the universe, based upon what th esages wrote of the mantra,
this only reuires patience and faith , and enoyment

but faith in someone else chanting it for you is like the modern day western lazy way to god, which is a dead end on a merry go round with many tool boothes and clowns, and a total not , so , ing, newss, to the ways christ EXMEPLIFIED WITH A PATH

the way to enlighten a religious christian is to show them bible passages that speak about the real nature of things, such as the kingdom of god is within you

if they eye be single they body is full of light, etc, but they will either say nuh-uh, or , be interested, hence equanimity is needed.





nice, thankyou

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Offlinesoldatheero
lastirishman
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Registered: 03/09/07
Posts: 2,856
Loc: Flag
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Disbelievers in the spiritual and mystical side of things... [Re: retrospect]
    #13532489 - 11/23/10 09:06 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Exactly, the part of brain with rational thought would have to be wiped out. There is no going back to my childhood beliefs.




Hmm so your concepts of mysticism and spirituality have not evolved since childhood.. I see

Quote:

Will they ever recant their beliefs?  What would be required for such a paradigm shift?




A person experience happens to them which they cannot deny. ex) someone who swears the existence of ghosts is impossible\irrational, sees one personally.


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.

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Offlinesoldatheero
lastirishman
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Registered: 03/09/07
Posts: 2,856
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Re: Disbelievers in the spiritual and mystical side of things... [Re: soldatheero]
    #13532498 - 11/23/10 09:07 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

This guy for instance.

Please tell me what you make of this.


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.

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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
Male User Gallery
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
Re: Disbelievers in the spiritual and mystical side of things... [Re: deCypher]
    #13532508 - 11/23/10 09:11 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Everyone is different. Everyone is going to need their own medicine... their own experience. I think it has to do with the momentum you come into this life with. When I started reading about DMT and mystical experiences I felt like I had discovered an entire new world, yet a world I felt so connected with. Someone else could read that stuff and just see "brain damage."

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Disbelievers in the spiritual and mystical side of things... [Re: deCypher]
    #13533683 - 11/24/10 02:31 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Believe me out of it.

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Offlinemigraineur
Geezer
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 1,642
Last seen: 8 months, 21 hours
Re: Disbelievers in the spiritual and mystical side of things... [Re: deCypher]
    #13533765 - 11/24/10 03:26 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

(a) Ignorance
(b) Mental illness
(c) drugs
(d) All of the above

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OfflineSpace Elf
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Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 3,371
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
Re: Disbelievers in the spiritual and mystical side of things... [Re: deCypher]
    #13533802 - 11/24/10 03:53 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

For some people it's easier to disbelieve than to believe. I know from experience that believing in God and an afterlife/reincarnation is a heavy load to carry. It would be so much easier if death was the end rather than just another chapter in eternity. That being said, I don't think there's anything that will force the skeptics to change their minds, in most cases. People tend to overlook the things they're not searching for.


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OfflinejivJaN
yes
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Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 4,245
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Disbelievers in the spiritual and mystical side of things... [Re: deCypher] * 1
    #13533833 - 11/24/10 04:26 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

cypher man..
im drunk so no homo
but i love you man.
ur one of those guys around here that has no shame to talk about craziness, but you're also one of those people that had hand 2 hand experience with craziness itself while maintaining to be a reasonable person.

What does it take ?
It really depends.
You could be talking to a dude that 50 some years old , already been through the whole spiritual mystic thing , which they now look back and shun upon as some sort of period of delusion.

The very simple truth is this and take it for what it is from a dunken man

WE ALL ! .. want to be spiritual , even we don't define it like that.
WE ALL ! .. want to love and be loved.

all those theories , all those stories , beliefs that come in between as the conceptual frame of reference for ones overall image are basically meaningless.
It fairly obvious what we all want.

What man fears the most !!  - is being alone.
This is inherent in us.

You can call me crazy or just stupid , but there is not a doubt in my mind that every single being in existence fears nothing more than this.
BEING ALONE.

yet.. we struggle with the issue of identity so much.

fuck ..
:rofldrunk:


bout 2 go get :stoned:

payce

why the fuck do i have to answer these questions in order to post ?!?!??!!??
somethin... about ..
somethin..


fuck..
fuck you
Users may choose only one ( total votes)
yes
-
0 0%
yup
-
0 0%
Votes accepted from (11/24/10 12:00 PM) to (11/24/10 04:26 AM)


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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OfflinejivJaN
yes
Male User Gallery

Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 4,245
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Disbelievers in the spiritual and mystical side of things... [Re: jivJaN]
    #13533835 - 11/24/10 04:28 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

sry..
forget about that vote.
that was.. a mistake ?

i thought cypher set up some questions so i just answered fuck you :lol::lol:


oh man...

im done.

gn


--------------------



---------------------

All my posts in this forum are strictly fictional.
They are derived from an acute mental illness , from which i am forced to lie compulsively.
I have never induced any kind of mind altering substance in my life  and i have no intentions whatsoever of doing anything illegal.
If I have ever suggested such a thing it would have most likely been , due to my personality disorder and i probably do not remember it at all..

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Invisiblederanger
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Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 6,840
Loc: off the wall
Re: Disbelievers in the spiritual and mystical side of things... [Re: jivJaN]
    #13533959 - 11/24/10 06:29 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

jivJaN said:
What man fears the most !!  - is being alone.
This is inherent in us.

You can call me crazy or just stupid , but there is not a doubt in my mind that every single being in existence fears nothing more than this.
BEING ALONE.




it's only through being alone feelings of loneliness can be overcome.  it's not that man fears being alone, it's the feeling of separateness that arises out of being alone.  if being alone weren't associated with feelings of loneliness, this world would probably be a more positive place.

i had a talk with someone a long time ago at a music festival about his experience at a Dark Room retreat.  he was alone in complete darkness for 12 days.  by the end of the retreat he told me about this inner light that gave him vision of his surroundings where no external light source was present.  he said he could see everything, including the stairs he needed to climb up to take a piss.  like bioluminescence.  this "light", he said, opened him in a way that he felt more connected to this wholeness in his day to day life.  so connected, that it prevented feelings of separateness to occur.  does he fear being alone?  no, it's aloneness that opened his eyes.

there are many other examples of how aloneness has helped people overcome such fears.

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InvisibleCups
technically "here"
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Registered: 12/24/09
Posts: 1,925
Re: Disbelievers in the spiritual and mystical side of things... [Re: deranger]
    #13534384 - 11/24/10 09:33 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I've been thinking about doing one of these this winter.  After my last trip...which took me down to the basement of experience..I was pretty shook up.  Two weeks later I was walking up some stairs when the door behind me closed and I was in complete pitch black darkness.

It took maybe 2 seconds for me to have a mild panic attack and I couldn't get out of there soon enough.  I've previously worked in ships (which are pitch black on the inside when the lights go out) with no problem.


--------------------
What's up everybody?!

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Offlinesoldatheero
lastirishman
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Registered: 03/09/07
Posts: 2,856
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Re: Disbelievers in the spiritual and mystical side of things... [Re: Space Elf]
    #13534887 - 11/24/10 11:26 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

For some people it's easier to disbelieve than to believe. I know from experience that believing in God and an afterlife/reincarnation is a heavy load to carry. It would be so much easier if death was the end rather than just another chapter in eternity. That being said, I don't think there's anything that will force the skeptics to change their minds, in most cases. People tend to overlook the things they're not searching for.





This is true and nobody seems to acknowledge it. If you believe this is your little sliver in eternity then you can really write yourself off and not have to face the bigger picture or the real purpose of life.
:thumbup:

Icelander seems to have every other person over in the philosophy forum convinced that all beliefs in the afterlife are merely the result of people brainwashing themselves due to death anxiety.. haha


--------------------
..and may the zelda theme song be with you at all times, amen.

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