Home | Community | Message Board

World Seed Supply
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
InvisibleMidnight_Toker
Gone Fishin'
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 11,589
Loc: Canada Flag
Do Trippers See The Geometry Of The Universe?
    #13520757 - 11/21/10 05:58 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

DISCLAIMER: This post may be very jumbled and make me sound very retarded because this idea is still new in my head and I just want to get my thoughts into writing.

So I was reading the new Scientific American and one of the articles in it had a very interesting theory on the structure of the universe called E8 theory.

I wish I could copy and paste from the Scientific American article because it's too much effort for me to try to explain, but it basically unifies gravity with all the other forces(with a few kinks still) by having every elementary particle and other undiscovered ones perfectly interwoven in 8 dimensions.  Now I don't understand any of the math for this theory, but luckily, they use pictures and such for dummies like me who can't fully understand what the heck they're talking about.  Strangely enough though, I feel like I have already seen what they are describing.

When people hallucinate from drugs, NDE's, etc, the hallucinations they perceive can be classified as form constants. Geometric patterns in different categories; lattices (including honeycombs, checkerboards, and triangles), cobwebs, tunnels, and spirals.
You can read more on form constants here;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Form_constant

The beauty and similarities of the end result of the E8 theory compared to the geometric patterns people perceive and the insights into how to universe operates while tripping lead me to believe that psychedelics really can open the doors of consciousness to the highest level.

This is a simplified version of the article I read,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Exceptionally_Simple_Theory_of_Everything

And this is the part too difficult for me to understand.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E%E2%82%88

If any of you can get your hands on the new issue of Scientific American I would recommend doing so because it makes more sense reading that article than the simplified one.  It also talks more about the spin of the structure as a whole which is more what made me relate it to a form constant.

Once again, sorry for the long rambling post that most definitely makes me sound like a tripper gone mad, but at least it's some food for thought if someone is as bored as me and looking for something to ponder.

Edited by Midnight_Toker (11/21/10 06:06 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMe_Roy
Stranger
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 3,230
Re: Do Trippers See The Geometry Of The Universe? [Re: Midnight_Toker]
    #13520903 - 11/21/10 06:25 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

The old definition continues to have explanatory power, imho.  Psychedelic = "mind manifesting."

Trippers see the structure of their visual apparatus. Sometimes they also have some insight into their cognitive apparatus. These are the sources of the form constants.

People involved in fringe activities, such as tripping, will gravitate towards the most recent theories of the universe and its complexity.  At the turn of the century spiritualists (people who conduct seances and the like) justified what they experienced as an effect of the fourth spatial dimension.  I used to try to do the same.  Now I see the whole psychedelic endeavor as much more navel gazing.

...not that this is entirely unproductive.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinesmokin427
 User Gallery


Registered: 07/27/09
Posts: 603
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Do Trippers See The Geometry Of The Universe? [Re: Me_Roy]
    #13521119 - 11/21/10 07:09 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Me_Roy said:
The old definition continues to have explanatory power, imho.  Psychedelic = "mind manifesting."

Trippers see the structure of their visual apparatus. Sometimes they also have some insight into their cognitive apparatus. These are the sources of the form constants.

People involved in fringe activities, such as tripping, will gravitate towards the most recent theories of the universe and its complexity.  At the turn of the century spiritualists (people who conduct seances and the like) justified what they experienced as an effect of the fourth spatial dimension.  I used to try to do the same.  Now I see the whole psychedelic endeavor as much more navel gazing.

...not that this is entirely unproductive.




post 420, congrats!  :sambergfive:


--------------------
I know exactly what you mean. Let me tell you why you're here. You're here because you know something. What you know you can't explain, but you feel it. You've felt it your entire life, that there's something wrong with the world. You don't know what it is, but it's there, like a splinter in your mind, driving you mad. It is this feeling that has brought you to me. Do you know what I'm talking about?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSS32
Stranger
Registered: 07/27/09
Posts: 897
Loc: elsewhere
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
Re: Do Trippers See The Geometry Of The Universe? [Re: smokin427]
    #13521156 - 11/21/10 07:15 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I can't seem to find the article right now, but I remember seeing simulations of different parts in the visual section of our brain and they look identical to the fractals we see while tripping.  If I can find the article I'll post it.


--------------------
Did he dream about dragons? Did he dream about deer? Did he whisper  he names of friends who were near?
What songs did they play, and how far away? Why did he whisper, why did she scream?
What does the sound of a screen door mean?
Who talks on the hill? Who goes to the cellar, can you feel the chill? Where does the river, when will the wind?
How far are the mountains? Where do they end? Why would the church?
Did the service begin? Tell me who died, and tell me who cried.
Help me hide in the skin of a deer, my zippered-up bag in the mouth of a stag so swiftly I go through rows of does,
it flows, it flows, it flows, it flows all over the hill where the green grass grows.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinedomite
Puppet
Male User Gallery
Registered: 04/12/03
Posts: 2,978
Loc: Who's askin'?
Last seen: 10 years, 7 months
Re: Do Trippers See The Geometry Of The Universe? [Re: SS32]
    #13521458 - 11/21/10 08:13 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

During my first trip, I kept seeing fractals, and had a feeling that they were very significant.

While reading the book "Chaos" which contains a bunch of info about the scientific and mathematical significance of fractals I felt that I had a strangely intuitive understanding of many of the principals explained.

So I'll vote yes.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblejustaguy
Registered: 06/12/10
Posts: 2,404
Loc: Flag
Re: Do Trippers See The Geometry Of The Universe? [Re: domite]
    #13521464 - 11/21/10 08:14 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Yes they do. Because I have seen the geometrified world with my own eyes


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNGC6705
In A Constant State of Becoming
 User Gallery


Registered: 12/08/09
Posts: 291
Loc: RA 18:53:44 DEC -06:28:42
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: Do Trippers See The Geometry Of The Universe? [Re: justaguy]
    #13521649 - 11/21/10 09:35 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I'll most definitely pick up a copy.  In the same issue is an article entitled "Hallucinogens as Medicine".  Waaaaay groovy.

Thanks infinitely for the heads-up!

Peace to All


--------------------
All Rights Reserved

    I TAKE DRUGS SERIOUSLY   
    CULTURE IS NOT YOUR FRIEND   
    MATERIALISM IS A FAITH POSITION   


"Once you find psychedelics, you're not looking for the
accelerator anymore -- you're looking for the brakes" -- Terence McKenna



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePandorok
Hu Man
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/21/09
Posts: 222
Loc: lol wut
Last seen: 11 years, 10 months
Re: Do Trippers See The Geometry Of The Universe? [Re: justaguy]
    #13521652 - 11/21/10 09:35 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

You can see it without "drugs".

PS: What's the universe?


--------------------
PANDOROK

Edited by Pandorok (11/21/10 09:55 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEywa_devotee
Goddess Worshiper
Male User Gallery
Registered: 10/04/10
Posts: 1,088
Loc: State of Confusion, Arkan... Flag
Last seen: 3 years, 9 months
Re: Do Trippers See The Geometry Of The Universe? [Re: Pandorok]
    #13522058 - 11/21/10 11:09 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I believe the geometric fractal patterns seen, especially on phenethylamine hallucinogens, are a fractal that your brain uses to process and integrate visual data into meaningful information. It's basically a compression algorithm.

The ones on DMT and other tryptamines seem to be a similar thing, but seem to be more of the code for consciousness itself rather than a process like seeing. It appeares salvinorin accesses a dangerous part of your brain's "software" Im guessing somewhere in the hypothalamus.


--------------------
"Love one another." "To Love is to know me." "Love is the Law, Love under Will." "In Compassion, all sorrows end." Regardless of the Master, the message is the same- Choose love and you shall live, Choose Fear and you shall die. Help bring peace to this Earth: Love one another, and serve others before yourself.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemutablemass
Stranger
Male


Registered: 07/12/08
Posts: 203
Last seen: 13 years, 15 days
Re: Do Trippers See The Geometry Of The Universe? [Re: Eywa_devotee]
    #13522133 - 11/21/10 11:31 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

All that is ever happening is the geometry of the universe seeing the geometry of the universe.. and then having a say...


--------------------
-----------------------------------
Mutable One

Edited by mutablemass (11/21/10 11:36 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineForestTramp
Stranger

Registered: 11/22/10
Posts: 20
Loc: Midwest, New England/NE, ...
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
Re: Do Trippers See The Geometry Of The Universe? [Re: mutablemass]
    #13522669 - 11/22/10 03:47 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I Kinda skimmed what you posted, but I think I get the jist of what you talking about.

But to add to what you posted, I have HPPD, and regardless of what people say, I have had some pretty trippy visuals on various natural hallucinogens. One of m favorites is this one particular time I smoke a blunt of kb with a friend. We also each shared a hit a piece of DMT.

All I can remember is at what point I was sucked into a kaleidescope of geometric patterns, that were constantly changing. Every split second the air in front of me was composed of these insanely colorful (cant even describe the colors) geometric patterns. Each second had like a mix of 5 different geometric shape pattern(s), and they were mixed around with each other in a wierd perfect fitting sort of way. And then the next split second would change to completely different geometric patterns and shapes that in no way looked anything like the last set of shapes and colors and patterns, but still blew my mind none the less.

As the experience intensified, I starting seeing moving images in little blurry windows that were ridiculous in terms of hue and contrast and shade and tint, let alone over bright colors and shit i just could not comprehend. But the images themselves were from all sorts of experiences a human being might come across in life. Anything you could  think up. And it somehow came my realization that this was the inner working of the universe. Every damn emotion Ive ever ehard of or ever felt in my 21 years on this planet, I felt while connecting to those images. From life, to death, happiness, sorrow, grief, ecstasy, everything. It was like I became a part of the "membrane" of the universe.


--------------------
-Fuck Social Stigmas, Fuck Racial Profiling & Prejudice, Fuck Racism, Fuck the Government, Fuck Modern Society, Fuck "Normal" People, Fuck Religion, Fuck Anarchy, Fuck it all. Why cant we all just get along? Because the world is a cruel, gloomy, morbid place, where the land is dotted by gruesome crumbling cities, wastelands of poverty, controlled by the wealthy and prosperous corrupted people of power in this world. From the devout terrorist, to the blood gangs and drug lords, to the corrupted government officials and world leaders that get fat and bloated off the sweat and tears of mankind. Lets Burn this earth to the ground.-

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledrr
Female
Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 8,444
Re: Do Trippers See The Geometry Of The Universe? [Re: Eywa_devotee]
    #13522723 - 11/22/10 04:30 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Eywa_devotee said:
I believe the geometric fractal patterns seen, especially on phenethylamine hallucinogens, are a fractal that your brain uses to process and integrate visual data into meaningful information. It's basically a compression algorithm.



interesting

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefugazi32
Hardcore Raver & Junglist
Male User Gallery

Registered: 11/01/09
Posts: 217
Loc: Milton Keynes, England
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
Re: Do Trippers See The Geometry Of The Universe? [Re: drr]
    #13522992 - 11/22/10 07:12 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I would say that on the natural entheogens, yes, you do see hyperspactial geometry... :wink:


--------------------
“Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence." - Robert Anton Wilson

It is so obvious: Psilocybin Mushrooms are living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy! :mushroom2:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePsilocypher
Explorer
Male User Gallery


Registered: 08/27/09
Posts: 804
Loc: Earth
Re: Do Trippers See The Geometry Of The Universe? [Re: Midnight_Toker]
    #13522999 - 11/22/10 07:15 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Midnight_Toker said:
Do Trippers See The Geometry Of The Universe?




Yes.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineForce Ten
Home Will Always Be Here
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/10/08
Posts: 747
Loc: Elation Station Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Do Trippers See The Geometry Of The Universe? [Re: ForestTramp]
    #13523610 - 11/22/10 10:41 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ForestTramp said:
I Kinda skimmed what you posted, but I think I get the jist of what you talking about.

But to add to what you posted, I have HPPD, and regardless of what people say, I have had some pretty trippy visuals on various natural hallucinogens. One of m favorites is this one particular time I smoke a blunt of kb with a friend. We also each shared a hit a piece of DMT.

All I can remember is at what point I was sucked into a kaleidescope of geometric patterns, that were constantly changing. Every split second the air in front of me was composed of these insanely colorful (cant even describe the colors) geometric patterns. Each second had like a mix of 5 different geometric shape pattern(s), and they were mixed around with each other in a wierd perfect fitting sort of way. And then the next split second would change to completely different geometric patterns and shapes that in no way looked anything like the last set of shapes and colors and patterns, but still blew my mind none the less.

As the experience intensified, I starting seeing moving images in little blurry windows that were ridiculous in terms of hue and contrast and shade and tint, let alone over bright colors and shit i just could not comprehend. But the images themselves were from all sorts of experiences a human being might come across in life. Anything you could  think up. And it somehow came my realization that this was the inner working of the universe. Every damn emotion Ive ever ehard of or ever felt in my 21 years on this planet, I felt while connecting to those images. From life, to death, happiness, sorrow, grief, ecstasy, everything. It was like I became a part of the "membrane" of the universe.




Man, this post was amazing. I put Pandora on right before I read this thread, and the fantastic ambient song "A Letter From Home" started fading in right as I started reading your post. It was awesome.

Interesting idea. I love fractals, and I have never seen anything more beautiful then geometric psychedelic visuals. I can still remember the first time I saw them... I wasn't even expecting to trip that hard, when all of a sudden, out of the blue, I saw this tunnel of bright, curving, shimmering rainbow hexagons, receding out into infinite... time slowed to almost to the point of stopping, and nothing existed in my consciousness other than the sight before my eyes and the feeling of being utterly astounded... as if I had finally returned to a place where I always belonged. Or something like that, haha.

:mushroom2:


--------------------

So hear this please
And watch as your heart speeds up endlessly
And look for the stars as the sun goes down
Each breath that you take has a thunderous sound
Everything, everything's magic

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMe_Roy
Stranger
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 3,230
Re: Do Trippers See The Geometry Of The Universe? [Re: Force Ten]
    #13523960 - 11/22/10 11:51 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

If by 'the geometry of the universe' you mean 'the materiality of inner space,' then yes.  I think these drugs help once to perceive the 'textures' of the senses and cognition that one might otherwise miss.

All the people in agreement with the OP are basically arguing the following:
"What I saw was really amazing, therefore it must have been the geometry of the universe."

Doesn't add up for me.  I mean, if you want to mystify your own experiences, I'm not going to be able to stop you.  But what you describe is more like religion than like science no matter what science-y jargon you use.

I know I'm inviting the "Stephen Hawkins says that science and religion converge" argument.  Fine.  Both are things that make you say "whoa". But you have no way of knowing that the fractalized leaves and clouds you see on drugs are more or less like the "real" structure of leaves and clouds, or that the geometries one sees on DMT are more descriptive of the "big picture" than are your more sober musings.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMidnight_Toker
Gone Fishin'
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 11,589
Loc: Canada Flag
Re: Do Trippers See The Geometry Of The Universe? [Re: NGC6705]
    #13524174 - 11/22/10 12:31 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

NGC6705 said:
I'll most definitely pick up a copy.  In the same issue is an article entitled "Hallucinogens as Medicine".  Waaaaay groovy.

Thanks infinitely for the heads-up!

Peace to All



Yes, it's quite a short article and it doesn't say anything we don't already know here at the Shroomery, but it is nice to see psychedelics being shown in a positive way in the scientific community.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineForce Ten
Home Will Always Be Here
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/10/08
Posts: 747
Loc: Elation Station Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Do Trippers See The Geometry Of The Universe? [Re: Me_Roy]
    #13524258 - 11/22/10 12:50 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Me_Roy said:
All the people in agreement with the OP are basically arguing the following:
"What I saw was really amazing, therefore it must have been the geometry of the universe."

Doesn't add up for me.  I mean, if you want to mystify your own experiences, I'm not going to be able to stop you.  But what you describe is more like religion than like science no matter what science-y jargon you use.

I know I'm inviting the "Stephen Hawkins says that science and religion converge" argument.  Fine.  Both are things that make you say "whoa". But you have no way of knowing that the fractalized leaves and clouds you see on drugs are more or less like the "real" structure of leaves and clouds, or that the geometries one sees on DMT are more descriptive of the "big picture" than are your more sober musings.




I'm not necesarilly saying I agree with the OP. Its an interesting idea... idk, since everything we see is always seen through the filter of our perceptions, I think its impossible to say conclusively one way or the other.


--------------------

So hear this please
And watch as your heart speeds up endlessly
And look for the stars as the sun goes down
Each breath that you take has a thunderous sound
Everything, everything's magic

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePsilocypher
Explorer
Male User Gallery


Registered: 08/27/09
Posts: 804
Loc: Earth
Re: Do Trippers See The Geometry Of The Universe? [Re: Force Ten]
    #13524398 - 11/22/10 01:22 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Whenever I trip, I usually see geometric tiles all slotted together perfectly. Normally it looks like I'm in some sort of huge temple or cathedral. It's an intricate architectural masterpiece whatever it is, and is constantly morphing its shape. All the walls/floors/whatever else is made out of these tiles made of light and indescribable colours.

Last trip I got the vibe that it was cells all slotted together, or this was how atoms were connected together to form molecules. All the tiles can move but they are still connected. Like water.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineislanduniverse
Male

Registered: 02/26/10
Posts: 1,963
Last seen: 1 month, 23 days
Re: Do Trippers See The Geometry Of The Universe? [Re: SS32]
    #13527574 - 11/23/10 12:05 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

i would like to see this

Quote:

SS32 said:
I can't seem to find the article right now, but I remember seeing simulations of different parts in the visual section of our brain and they look identical to the fractals we see while tripping.  If I can find the article I'll post it.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* CEV's of the geometric kind poke smot! 5,852 1 02/09/03 07:31 PM
by Strumpling
* The Psychedelic Experience Forum (Tripper's FAQ, Psychedelic Library and Rules) READ BEFORE POSTING! RoseM 14,082 7 10/06/16 10:36 PM
by PrimalSoup
* Tripper's FAQ: Read this First!
( 1 2 3 4 all )
RoseM 32,278 66 02/27/10 02:56 PM
by forreverendgreen
* Decent Article on Real LSD
( 1 2 3 all )
vintage_gonzo 24,046 40 08/16/14 11:15 AM
by s240779
* Article about geometric hallucinations Phencyclidine 1,008 4 05/09/04 11:26 PM
by Phencyclidine
* College Trippers
( 1 2 all )
Evangeliontx 3,363 39 02/17/04 04:49 PM
by Annom
* NewScientist article madscientist 1,212 4 07/26/01 02:06 PM
by KeepAskingTime
* HPPD truth or scare tactic? - For avid trippers.
( 1 2 3 all )
Afroshroomerican 7,962 58 05/23/11 01:06 AM
by Shroomerited

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: psilocybinjunkie, Rose, mushboy, LogicaL Chaos, Northerner, bodhisatta
8,672 topic views. 1 members, 36 guests and 43 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.029 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 15 queries.