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InvisibleMisterMuscaria
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: Kupo]
    #10780473 - 08/01/09 02:33 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Societies programming, both from the religious side and scientific side; for the most part really strive to get people to forget and break their spirits in early childhood.


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OfflineTeamAmerica
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: Kickle]
    #10780515 - 08/01/09 02:43 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I see ritual simply as a catalyst

A real ritual will be an accurate equation that catalyzes you into the dimension of "magic" etc...

Spontaneity and ritual are  different means to different ends...

I dont understand why they are versus each other in your thoughts though...

If magic is part of nature, then it coexists with law, there for obviously a ritual would be a logical approach to magic, or rather rituals could have been made by certain extensive observations of magic itself through synchronicity, then once experienced, passed down to others. Synchronicity itself may just be interferences with the law of magic, or time itself, making it a ritual, depending on the steps that created that "synchronicity."

Ritual is just another means of creating, or channeling "magic" that may not be obtainable through simply willing it.


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: TeamAmerica]
    #10783564 - 08/02/09 12:18 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I dont understand why they are versus each other in your thoughts though...




Due to matters of trust.
Do you trust yourself, as a magical being?
That you yourself ARE magic, no tools or circles needed?

This is why I compared to gravity. We needn't have studied the law of gravity, for it to exist.
Even when we weren't aware of it, we still utilized it unknowingly.

What has the knowledge gained us?

In the end, I have a similar line of belief to that of jivJan, although I'm coming into a phase of questioning that. It should be interesting to see where it leads :grin:


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


Edited by Kickle (08/02/09 12:21 AM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: Kickle]
    #10793550 - 08/03/09 05:08 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

“These metaphysics of magicians,
And necromantic books are heavenly;
Lines, circles, letters, characters.
Ay, these are those that Faustus most desires.”
- Christopher Marlowe, The Tragedie of Doctor Faustus (B text) Act 1.



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #10795849 - 08/03/09 11:17 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

suggesting that man can fall prey to demonic forces, and the rituals are more for divine protection than anything?


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineThe D Void
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: Kickle]
    #13508059 - 11/19/10 08:15 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I think that prehaps the reason for ritual in the use
Of magic is so that we are clear in our intention and
To provide us with a focus point so as not to loose
Concentration and petenially disrupt the flow of magic.


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"Once you have flown, you shall forever look to the sky, for there you have been, there you long to return" De Vinci


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: The D Void]
    #13508380 - 11/19/10 09:47 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

nice bump

I wonder, is intention necessary for magic? Or only necessary for control?
Can letting go, be magical?


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineTaco Chef
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: Kickle]
    #13509067 - 11/19/10 12:17 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

without intention, there is no magick, there may be trance, but not directed result


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: Taco Chef]
    #13509083 - 11/19/10 12:19 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

What makes you say that? Do things stop happening when you stop intending? Or is it only magic that disappears?


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineTaco Chef
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: Kickle]
    #13509189 - 11/19/10 12:36 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

magick is causing change to happen in conformity with will

give an example of magick without intent...


letting go can be magick, but letting go is an intent


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: Taco Chef]
    #13509213 - 11/19/10 12:44 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

letting go is not intent, because intending to let go is grabbing.
You can't release by trying to grab.


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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineTaco Chef
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: Kickle]
    #13509257 - 11/19/10 12:53 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

at this point i have to assume you're either being glib just for fun's sake, or you need to define your terms for us.

how is intending to let go grabbing? grabbing what? how is intent 'grabbing'?

release? i intend to release my attachment to "X". what am i grabbing there?


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Invisiblec0sm0nautt
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: Kickle] * 1
    #13509310 - 11/19/10 01:04 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
letting go is not intent, because intending to let go is grabbing.
You can't release by trying to grab.




By letting go you allow magic to flow through you. It's about ceasing control.

I think to passage is fitting:

Quote:

Align your own will with divine will and your Essence Self. Be transparent, innocently allowing magic to come through you rather than needing to create it. Open to heart-knowing and limitless possibilties.

White Wizard is a tool of the light, a conduit for the work of Spirit. A wise magician is spontaneous and transparent, allowing magic to come in rather than trying to control it or make it happen. A magician dances the dance of love through offering gifts of freedom to others. This is real magic. Freed from the need to use power to manipulate or control, a magician uses wisdom to manifest liberation and love.




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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: Taco Chef]
    #13510106 - 11/19/10 03:25 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

novumorganum said:
at this point i have to assume you're either being glib just for fun's sake, or you need to define your terms for us.

how is intending to let go grabbing? grabbing what? how is intent 'grabbing'?

release? i intend to release my attachment to "X". what am i grabbing there?




Sorry, it was poor word choice on my part. But perhaps this will illustrate better.
Can one let go of intention by intending to let go?


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Offlineretrospect
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Re: Magic -- Spontaneity vs Ritual [Re: c0sm0nautt]
    #13513114 - 11/20/10 05:15 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

c0sm0nautt said:
Quote:

Align your own will with divine will and your Essence Self. Be transparent, innocently allowing magic to come through you rather than needing to create it.







Interesting thread, yes I would say there lies the difference between self-will and thy will.


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