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zoomery
psilocybinist

Registered: 12/09/02
Posts: 162
Loc: saskatchewan
Last seen: 19 years, 11 months
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case misting question
#1349340 - 03/04/03 08:11 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Okay. So my cat made his 1st casing out of coir and a little bit of verm to soak up the extra water. When mycelia started appearing in the valleys he induced fruiting. Well now its 3 days after that and the mycelia is still growing! Its like all over the top, pretty far from overlay, but he cant get it to stop growin. Hopefully it will stop sometime today or tomorrow. Fanning 4X a day, RH>95%, 12hours of incandescent light a day but anyways his question is He cant really tell if the casing layer is dry. Should he start misting it every couple days and if he does, how would he go about it? He started fruiting when it was just poppin through, now its all over the place, pretty uniform. But he cant spray the casing without spraying the mycelium. Will this damage it? I heard coir also turns back to its original shade of deep red when its starts drying out, is this correct?
Edited by zoomery (03/04/03 08:13 AM)
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Birdman
If you catch onfire, do notrun!

Registered: 11/27/00
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Re: case misting question [Re: zoomery]
#1349527 - 03/04/03 09:10 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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I had the same problem. I waited a couple days and it started to pin beautifuly! I gave it a couple of LIGHT mistings during that period. I wouldn't mist to the point that the water would sit on top of the casings.
Check out my post. *****OVERLAY?*****
-------------------- "Livin' a Juggalo's life"
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Anonymous
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Re: case misting question [Re: zoomery]
#1349542 - 03/04/03 09:16 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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If you get water droplets on the mycilium it will most likelly kill it where the water is. And I have afoaf who does caseings and he keeps th rh at 80%. From his expeiriance he has had overlay at higher humidity.
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soochi
Chef


Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 2,420
Loc: The Richest County
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Re: case misting question [Re: zoomery]
#1349561 - 03/04/03 09:23 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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don't mist, just keep your rh up. It will start to fruit soon. You should only mist when the casing starts to pull from the sides of the container, but by then, you should be into your second flush.
-------------------- Wee, sleeket, cowran, tim'rous beastie, O, what panic's in thy breastie! Thou need na start awa sae hasty, Wi' bickering brattle!
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zoomery
psilocybinist

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Re: case misting question [Re: fee]
#1349748 - 03/04/03 10:34 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
And I have afoaf who does caseings and he keeps th rh at 80%. From his expeiriance he has had overlay at higher humidity.
I thought optimal humidity conditions were 95+ Rh for pin formation
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zoomery
psilocybinist

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Re: case misting question [Re: Birdman]
#1349760 - 03/04/03 10:38 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Oh and Birdman, thats what my casing looks like also... there was just a couple small tiny ass patches poking through when i induced fruiting conditions.
Now its all over the top. Not really layered, but pretty much everywhere.
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Shroomer_of_Oppression
Day Tripper
Registered: 02/28/03
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Re: case misting question [Re: zoomery]
#1349768 - 03/04/03 10:40 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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stupid question, but what does rh stand for? don't shun me, please.
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tsimpikao
PermanentVacation

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Re: case misting question [Re: zoomery]
#1349811 - 03/04/03 10:53 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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yep i've been told that the casing rh (relative humidity) should be around 80rh because it takes moisture from the vermiculite or soil coir or whatever your friend cased the humidity should be as high as 95 when someone is doing cakes
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dog
straw dog

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 2,790
Loc: Route 66
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rh = relative humidity
I lightly mist my casings with h20/h202 several times per day until I see knots forming. A light mist will not kill mycelium.
--------------------
Fascism (fash'izem) n. A governmental system marked by a centralized dictatorship, stringent socioeconomic controls, and often belligerent nationalism. see also: the Bush Administration.
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Shroomer_of_Oppression
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Re: case misting question [Re: dog]
#1349901 - 03/04/03 11:19 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Another dumb question: what is the difference between relative humidity and humidity?
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dog
straw dog

Registered: 06/20/02
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Loc: Route 66
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Same thing.
--------------------
Fascism (fash'izem) n. A governmental system marked by a centralized dictatorship, stringent socioeconomic controls, and often belligerent nationalism. see also: the Bush Administration.
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ClosetCase
but only inwinter

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Re: case misting question [Re: zoomery]
#1349922 - 03/04/03 11:25 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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You will definately be able to tell when coir gets dry by it's color... and I agree, light mistings (with a GOOD spray bottle) are beneficial. I just had some beautiful casings with coir and verm. Good Luck!
oh, and what is your temp at? My friend put's his by the patio door (~60 F) for a night to stop growth.
-------------------- "as your attourney I advise you to rent a very fast car with no top, and you'll need the cocaine.." "well.. why not? I mean if anything's worth doing, it's worth doing right. THIS IS THE AMERICAN DREAM IN ACTION"
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zoomery
psilocybinist

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Re: case misting question [Re: ClosetCase]
#1350067 - 03/04/03 12:28 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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temp is like 70F, and I was incubating at 85. So i thought the 15 degree change would be enough of a cold shock.
So am I wrong to keep the RH at 95%? I thought it was sposed to be between 95 and a 100 for primordia formation, and then 80 - 90 after they form.
According to this... http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/23457
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Angry Mycologist
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Re: case misting question [Re: ClosetCase]
#1350075 - 03/04/03 12:31 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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So some very tiny water droplets found on mycelium strands coming out of the casing layer is no big deal?
-------------------- The proper penalty of ignorance, which is of course that those who don't know should learn from those who do... - Plato
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zoomery
psilocybinist

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Re: case misting question [Re: zoomery]
#1350099 - 03/04/03 12:41 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Could anybody that is completely postive about this reply asap? I dont want this high humidity i have leading me into an overlay. The guide says 95-100rh for casing pin formation, but it seems a couple people are disagreeing with the guide...
thanks in advance
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zoomery
psilocybinist

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Re: case misting question [Re: zoomery]
#1350294 - 03/04/03 01:56 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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bump
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ClosetCase
but only inwinter

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 295
Loc: Somewhere rubbing my nugs...
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I guess you would have to define tiny. Something you would have to get close to see. Like a morning mist on a spider web. High humidity is what you want... Cold temps slow growth. Do you have a pic? This amount of mycelium on top is ok...
voila!
sorry, but it's my friend's first grow and he is very happy and proud right now!
-------------------- "as your attourney I advise you to rent a very fast car with no top, and you'll need the cocaine.." "well.. why not? I mean if anything's worth doing, it's worth doing right. THIS IS THE AMERICAN DREAM IN ACTION"
Edited by ClosetCase (03/04/03 02:39 PM)
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Shroomism
Space Travellin


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Re: case misting question [Re: zoomery]
#1350361 - 03/04/03 02:28 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'd say more like 92% rh until pinning.. and then 86%
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Dymentia
journeyman

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Re: case misting question [Re: Shroomism]
#1350376 - 03/04/03 02:37 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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if there is visible condensation on your casing and no pins, stop misting, and the pins will appear, then start misting again when they appear, if theres is no visible condensation on the casing just keep misting and the pins will eventually form. good luck
Dym
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



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Re: case misting question [Re: Dymentia]
#1350385 - 03/04/03 02:42 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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No, no , no. Don't mist when you have pins. It will kill them.
~Peace
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zoomery
psilocybinist

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Re: case misting question [Re: Dymentia]
#1350419 - 03/04/03 02:56 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Im havent really misted the casing yet, it doesnt appear dry yet, so I didnt see the need...
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Moronacracy
Lurker #1
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Re: case misting question [Re: zoomery]
#1350559 - 03/04/03 04:11 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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You don't need to drown your casing. Humidity in the 80s is best for casings, and your temp should be in the mid 70s. Mist whent he coir appears dry, it should be a slightly different color.
Now, I've never grown, but this is what seems to be workign for people.
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zoomery
psilocybinist

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Re: case misting question [Re: Moronacracy]
#1350587 - 03/04/03 04:23 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Everybody keeps saying Humidity in 80s for casings. But are you referring to the whole casing cycle? Because i was informed that humidity in the 80s is best for POST PINNING stage. Im asking for the PRE pinning stage.
And the only reason Im asking is because a lot of people are disagreeing with what is in the faq.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin


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Re: case misting question [Re: zoomery]
#1351033 - 03/04/03 08:35 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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According to Stamets, our God.. 92%-95% rh PRE-pinning, cut back to 86% after pins have developed. Of course I may be off as this is from memory but I am almost positive that's what it says. 1-3 air exchanges per hour is ideal..you can get away with 3 fans a day.
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Anno
Experimenter



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Re: case misting question [Re: Shroomism]
#1351132 - 03/04/03 09:37 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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>According to Stamets, our God.. 92%-95% rh PRE-pinning, No, according to Stamets 95-100% for this stage. Read http://www.shroomery.org/index/par/23457 .
Edited by Anno (03/04/03 09:42 PM)
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Shroomism
Space Travellin


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Re: case misting question [Re: Anno]
#1351156 - 03/04/03 09:48 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Ahh yes wise old sensai.. I thought I might have been off a bit. Guess I should brush the dust of my TMC.. haven't cracked open the Bible of shroom knowledge pin a while.
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Robbyrob
Cubensis seeker

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Re: case misting question [Re: Shroomism]
#1351239 - 03/04/03 11:39 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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im with this. I was told that pins need high RH for formation. Once your casing starts to pin then u can lower RH..
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Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
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Re: case misting question [Re: zoomery]
#1351343 - 03/05/03 01:48 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Everybody keeps saying Humidity in 80s for casings. But are you referring to the whole casing cycle? Because i was informed that humidity in the 80s is best for POST PINNING stage. Im asking for the PRE pinning stage.
From my friend's experience, casings do fine if you leave them at about 85% to 90% the whole time; pre-pin, pin, and fruiting. You can probably optimize things by using different RH at each phase, but as far as he's been able to tell, it doesn't make enough of a difference to bother with. It's also hard to rotate stock when you have four casings, each at a different stage, and only one big fruiting chamber.
Good luck!
-Diploid
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Bilge
longtimenoC

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Re: case misting question [Re: Diploid]
#1351354 - 03/05/03 01:55 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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my friend's experience is the same as Diploid's for 50/50+ casings of brf and wbs. he always used 87% rh from casing birth until finish with great results.
-------------------- Shopping for your head? Visit HeadShopFinder.com or find Online Head Shops.
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debianlinux
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Re: case misting question [Re: dog]
#1351451 - 03/05/03 03:20 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Same thing.
not exactly. for all intents and purposes the term "humidity" means "relative humidity (rH)" for us. "humidity" is an ambigous term. there is such a thing as "absolute humidity (aH)". rH is a ratio while aH is a defined number. Absolute humidity is the mass of water vapor divided by the mass of dry air in a volume of air at a given temperature. The hotter the air is, the more water it can contain. Relative humidity is the ratio of the current absolute humidity to the highest possible absolute humidity (which depends on the current air temperature). An example would be 1 cubic meter of air at 30 degrees celsius. It has a maximum absolute humidity of 30 grams. The aH would be calculated by dividing the mass of dry air by the mass of water contained within it (a maximum of 30g per cubic meter at 30 degrees celsius). Relative humidity would be the ratio of this calculated absolute humidity to the maximum absolute humidity (30g). Therefore rH is expressed as a fractional or percentage value and aH is expressed in a whole number of mass (in grams) per cubic meter. The most important aspect of this for a mycologist is the fact that warmer air holds more water. There is another way to sucessfully measure rH. It involves a rather experimental approach. It involves taking two alcohol or mercury tube thermometers and placing a wet cloth over one thermometer's bulb and placing bothe thermometers in the same area to be measured. An air current is established to evaporate the the water off the cloth. The ratio of the wet bulb temperature to the dry bulb temperature is equivalent to rH. Hope that clears things up, hehehe.
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dog
straw dog

Registered: 06/20/02
Posts: 2,790
Loc: Route 66
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Re: case misting question [Re: Redstorm]
#1351467 - 03/05/03 03:33 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
No, no , no. Don't mist when you have pins. It will kill them.
And just where did you dig up this nugget of wisdom?
--------------------
Fascism (fash'izem) n. A governmental system marked by a centralized dictatorship, stringent socioeconomic controls, and often belligerent nationalism. see also: the Bush Administration.
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Anno
Experimenter



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Re: case misting question [Re: debianlinux]
#1351471 - 03/05/03 03:36 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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>The most important aspect of this for a mycologist is the fact that warmer air holds more water. Nice try. Not quite true though. The air has noting to do with that. It?s not the air that "holds" vapor, but it?s the water vapor pressure that is temperature dependant. Read http://www.ems.psu.edu/~fraser/Bad/BadClouds.html . A quote from there: " To claim that a temperature-dependent holding capacity of the air caused the cloud to form in cold air is to get (approximately) the right answer for the wrong reason. It is like trying to reduce the fraction, 19/95, by imagining that you can cancel the 9s. The right answer ensues, but for the wrong reason." >The ratio of the wet bulb temperature to the dry bulb temperature is equivalent to rH. Again, not quite correct. Yes, you can determine the rH by comparing the wet bulb and dry bulb temperature, but to say that the "ratio of the wet bulb temperature to the dry bulb temperature is equivalent to rH" is not correct.
Edited by Anno (03/05/03 03:38 AM)
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debianlinux
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Re: case misting question [Re: Anno]
#1351649 - 03/05/03 05:02 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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gah, you got me on the vapor pressure. i had conveniently forgotten that part of my physics courses and demoted myself to grade school "theology". however, can you provide the proper method of using the wet bulb technique to determine rH? IIRC it is a matter of (wT/dT)*100. for example (29C/30C)*100 = 96%. i think you may be right though since the curve of vapor pressure plotted against temperature is not linear. however, i do not know the proper addition to the above formula (probably an additional constant that defines the sine of the curve).
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Anno
Experimenter



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Re: case misting question [Re: debianlinux]
#1351952 - 03/05/03 06:58 AM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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>however, can you provide the proper method of using the wet bulb technique to determine rH?
As far I rememeber the equations are rather difficult to solve, for the convenience one uses tablulated values. Like here: http://retirees.uwaterloo.ca/~jerry/orchids/wet&dry.html
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Diploid
Cuban


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Re: case misting question [Re: Anno]
#1353198 - 03/05/03 05:20 PM (20 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
As far I rememeber the equations are rather difficult to solve, for the convenience one uses tablulated values.
You're right, it's a complicated problem from what I recall. Among other things that complicate the solution are the fact that vapor pressure vs temperature is not linear and to make things worse, the shape of the curve is a function of the absolute pressure. I think I'll just use a tabulation.
-Diploid
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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