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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Joy without context?
#13488223 - 11/15/10 03:25 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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I love jokes, mainly because I love to laugh. Sometimes I think about how it's strange that the laughter resulting from listening to a joke depends on the existence of the joke and my exposure to it, as if the joke itself is an excuse to experience the joy it caused. To me, it seems rational to want to experience this joy as often as possible, without needing a preceding joke. But what would be the context behind such joy? Does one need to be happy about something in order to be happy, or can one experience happiness without anything to back it up?
Does joy require context?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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p4kSouL
Animals Are Cool

Registered: 01/13/05
Posts: 3,666
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Re: Joy without context? [Re: Poid]
#13489312 - 11/15/10 06:58 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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First what is Joy?? My understanding is, Joy is a response, to external events "suppose" to be funny. You can recreate that joy internally without needing that exact external algorithm. Simply meditate close the eyes and reexperience that joy. No need to watch a movie for it, or hear a joke for it. Its already there just got to go inward.
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: Joy without context? [Re: Poid]
#13489821 - 11/15/10 08:43 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Being itself is joy. Removed of any connotations, the simple act of existing beings happiness. It's just our outward attachments and failure to stay in the moment that makes something like a joke necessary to feel good. imo.
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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the bizzle
the joke that no one spoke


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 11,870
Loc: :seriousbusiness:
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: Joy without context? [Re: g00ru]
#13489836 - 11/15/10 08:44 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Does joy require context?
if you remove all context there is nothing but joy
-------------------- MY HAIR IS A BIRD YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID
  
Edited by the bizzle (11/15/10 08:45 PM)
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c0sm0nautt

Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,303
Loc: The Astral Realm
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Re: Joy without context? [Re: the bizzle]
#13490333 - 11/15/10 10:15 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Your avatar is joy I can't believe that shit used to scare me when I was little, it's so funny.
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Joy without context? [Re: Poid]
#13491249 - 11/16/10 04:16 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Unless your mind needs joy to have a context, joy itself doesn't need one.
--------------------
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Joy without context? [Re: Chronic7]
#13493729 - 11/16/10 04:24 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
p4kSouL said: First what is Joy??
I would say there are two types of joy--the immediate type (e.g ike laughing at a joke), and the more sustained long-term type (i.e. overall happiness).
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p4kSouL said: My understanding is, Joy is a response, to external events "suppose" to be funny.
Why "suppose"? I think it is a response to things that an individual finds to be comical.
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p4kSouL said: You can recreate that joy internally without needing that exact external algorithm.
Really? How am I supposed to start laughing in exactly the same manner that I do at a joke without hearing a joke? What would be the substance of the laughing?
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p4kSouL said: Simply meditate close the eyes and reexperience that joy. No need to watch a movie for it, or hear a joke for it. Its already there just got to go inward.
I would say that all of our emotions are "already there".
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guruu said: Being itself is joy. Removed of any connotations, the simple act of existing beings happiness. It's just our outward attachments and failure to stay in the moment that makes something like a joke necessary to feel good.
Existing is not an act, it's a state; I'm not saying that jokes are necessary to feel good, but it seems to me that one cannot experience the exact same type of joy that results from hearing a funny joke without hearing a funny joke--laughter seems to nee to have some substance behind it (e.g. What are you laughing at?).
Laughter without substance seems schizophrenic IMO. 
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the bizzle said:
Quote:
Does joy require context?
if you remove all context there is nothing but joy 
The implication being that joy necessarily has no context? 
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c0sm0nautt said: Your avatar is joy 
So is yours. 
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The Chronic said: Unless your mind needs joy to have a context, joy itself doesn't need one.
I just can't wrap my head around this--all of our emotions have reasons, why would joy be any different?
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Joy without context? [Re: Poid]
#13496924 - 11/17/10 08:02 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Laughter without substance seems schizophrenic IMO.
~
Why sir, purely substance based laughter is the best kind.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



Registered: 08/09/07
Posts: 21,088
Loc: georgia, us
Last seen: 5 years, 1 month
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Re: Joy without context? [Re: Grapefruit]
#13497526 - 11/17/10 10:41 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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there's nobody laughing
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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the bizzle
the joke that no one spoke


Registered: 04/14/09
Posts: 11,870
Loc: :seriousbusiness:
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: Joy without context? [Re: g00ru]
#13497829 - 11/17/10 11:39 AM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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laughing at the joke that no one spoke...
-------------------- MY HAIR IS A BIRD YOUR ARGUMENT IS INVALID
  
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Joy without context? [Re: Poid]
#13497943 - 11/17/10 12:02 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
The Chronic said: Unless your mind needs joy to have a context, joy itself doesn't need one.
I just can't wrap my head around this--all of our emotions have reasons, why would joy be any different?
Its hard to describe how this is possible, but say you find joy in a joke, another person may be totally disgusted by the joke, so the joke is not the joy, its how it filters through your mind, and everything is like that, it is not the object itself as every object is equally joyful
Its like joy is space Your mind is an object in space You see another object in space that your mind wants When you finally get it & feel joy, all you are doing is feeling the space as the mind has stopped
This space has no cause, no beginning point, so it is causeless joy
--------------------
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Joy without context? [Re: Chronic7]
#13498003 - 11/17/10 12:13 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Grapefruit said:
Quote:
Laughter without substance seems schizophrenic IMO.
~
Why sir, purely substance based laughter is the best kind. 
Touchè. 
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guruu said: there's nobody laughing 
What is that faggy-ass cloud laughing at? 
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The Chronic said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
The Chronic said: Unless your mind needs joy to have a context, joy itself doesn't need one.
I just can't wrap my head around this--all of our emotions have reasons, why would joy be any different?
Its hard to describe how this is possible, but say you find joy in a joke, another person may be totally disgusted by the joke, so the joke is not the joy, its how it filters through your mind, and everything is like that, it is not the object itself as every object is equally joyful
Exactly, those filters are the context, and without the joke nothing would pass through them.
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The Chronic said: Its like joy is space Your mind is an object in space You see another object in space that your mind wants When you finally get it & feel joy, all you are doing is feeling the space as the mind has stopped
I'm not sure I'm grasping this, may you elaborate? 
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The Chronic said: This space has no cause, no beginning point, so it is causeless joy
How can that space have no cause? Nothing has a beginning point without a reference point to compare it to...
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Joy without context? [Re: Poid]
#13498109 - 11/17/10 12:35 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
The Chronic said: Its like joy is space Your mind is an object in space You see another object in space that your mind wants When you finally get it & feel joy, all you are doing is feeling the space as the mind has stopped
I'm not sure I'm grasping this, may you elaborate? 
Joy is like the substratum of all things, but we play in creation pretending joy comes from the things Our desire is like a tension inside us, so when the object desired is gained then the tension leaves the underlying space as it is, joyful
Quote:
Quote:
The Chronic said: This space has no cause, no beginning point, so it is causeless joy
How can that space have no cause? Nothing has a beginning point without a reference point to compare it to...
It has no cause as it never had a starting point, you can never pin down infinity to say 'this' is when it began, it simply exists endlessly Its only knowable by recognizing it as your own nature, by diving within your Self & experiencing that spacious endless peace
9000 posts, i'm out this bitch!
If you guys ever wanna chat PM me
--------------------
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Joy without context? [Re: Chronic7]
#13498217 - 11/17/10 12:57 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Chronic said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Quote:
The Chronic said: Its like joy is space Your mind is an object in space You see another object in space that your mind wants When you finally get it & feel joy, all you are doing is feeling the space as the mind has stopped
I'm not sure I'm grasping this, may you elaborate? 
Joy is like the substratum of all things, but we play in creation pretending joy comes from the things Our desire is like a tension inside us, so when the object desired is gained then the tension leaves the underlying space as it is, joyful
Quote:
Quote:
The Chronic said: This space has no cause, no beginning point, so it is causeless joy
How can that space have no cause? Nothing has a beginning point without a reference point to compare it to...
It has no cause as it never had a starting point, you can never pin down infinity to say 'this' is when it began, it simply exists endlessly Its only knowable by recognizing it as your own nature, by diving within your Self & experiencing that spacious endless peace
Eh, I don't really buy the "joy is the substratum of all things" theory. 
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The Chronic said: 9000 posts, i'm out this bitch! 
Number 9, Number 9, Number 9, Number 9, Number 9, Number 9, Number 9, Number 9, Number 9.........
Why are you leaving at the 9,000 mark? That's pretty fuckin' random, but whatevs...
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The Chronic said: If you guys ever wanna chat PM me 
Will do, but you will be missed in the forums.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Joy without context? [Re: Poid]
#13498304 - 11/17/10 01:18 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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He could have had over 9000 posts.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Joy without context? [Re: deCypher]
#13498313 - 11/17/10 01:21 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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What the hell? 
Quote:
Warning, this page contains material that may be considered not safe for work. Do you wish to continue? Yes No
Remember my setting.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Joy without context? [Re: Poid]
#13498319 - 11/17/10 01:22 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Edited the link to Youtube, but haven't you ever browsed Encyclopedia Dramatica before?
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Joy without context? [Re: deCypher]
#13498341 - 11/17/10 01:28 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: ...but haven't you ever browsed Encyclopedia Dramatica before? 
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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deCypher



Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 56,232
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Re: Joy without context? [Re: Poid]
#13498344 - 11/17/10 01:28 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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You've missed out on many opportunities for joy then.
-------------------- We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
 
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir




Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,372
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Joy without context? [Re: deCypher]
#13498355 - 11/17/10 01:30 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
deCypher said: He could have had over 9000 posts. 
I love that show! 
Quote:
deCypher said: You've missed out on many opportunities for joy then. 
Yeah I'm used to it.
-------------------- Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan  fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Cynosure
allow me to be your guide.


Registered: 10/06/09
Posts: 4,228
Last seen: 11 months, 11 days
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Re: Joy without context? [Re: Poid]
#13499139 - 11/17/10 04:16 PM (13 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said: To me, it seems rational to want to experience this joy as often as possible, without needing a preceding joke.
I believe that many people do wish to experience this joy as often as possible. It's unfortunate that many don't see that it is possible. By simply (may not be the best choice of a word) accepting yourself and being content with what you have, I feel that this joy can be experienced at any and all times. The most genuine form of accepting oneself can often lead to laughter. On the downside, this still requires context.
Quote:
Poid said: Does joy require context?
I'll have to think on whether or not I believe that joy requires context. I must say that I really enjoyed The Chronic's theory.
-------------------- "You can peel it [language] off the ceiling and make it dance in front of you" - McKenna <3 .
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