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OfflinePreparationH
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Self defense or not? (VIDEO)
    #13469898 - 11/11/10 05:21 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)


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InvisibleI_was_the_walrus
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: PreparationH] * 1
    #13469927 - 11/11/10 05:26 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

The first shot was self defense. Done deal. Anything after that was pretty malicious.

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Offlinedestructo_low
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: PreparationH]
    #13469936 - 11/11/10 05:28 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Maybe it was self defense when the guy was coming at him. I'm not sure if the other guy had a gun or not, but when the dude started running, and he chased, still shooting, it comes out of the territory of self defense. He eliminated the threat and turned into the attacker.


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There is a molecule for every purpose. There are only actions and reactions. Cut out the middle men. Everything I say is a lie.

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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: destructo_low]
    #13469965 - 11/11/10 05:33 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

destructo_low said:
Maybe it was self defense when the guy was coming at him. I'm not sure if the other guy had a gun or not, but when the dude started running, and he chased, still shooting, it comes out of the territory of self defense. He eliminated the threat and turned into the attacker.



:shrug: I agree with ya there but if the man DID in fact have a gun, honestly if it were up to me(which it isn't) I'd be congratulating the marshal.  The guy was non-confrontational and backing away the whole time then the last time macho man walks toward him like he's about to shhot/stab/strike w/e he gets player owned.  regardless I laughed when I saw it.

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InvisibleCycleThoughts
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: destructo_low]
    #13470003 - 11/11/10 05:41 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Someone points a gun at you, regardless if they're fleeing, they're still a threat.

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OfflineHumility
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: PreparationH] * 1
    #13470005 - 11/11/10 05:41 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

You can't run a man down and gun him down and talk about you killed him in self defense.  There were elements of self defense there; obviously the VERY beginning of the attack qualifies.

It looks like that marshall chased that guy down at least 30 feet and shot him in the back multiple times.

How is that possibly "self defense"?


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Edited by Humility (11/11/10 05:42 PM)

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InvisibleCycleThoughts
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Humility]
    #13470020 - 11/11/10 05:45 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

How many times did her fire his gun?  I can only see 2, the initial shot, then as he charges him he shoots a second time.  The rest of the confrontation takes place off camera.  The first two shots were justified, if the other guy had a gun.

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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Humility]
    #13470029 - 11/11/10 05:47 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Humility said:
You can't run a man down and gun him down and talk about you killed him in self defense.  There were elements of self defense there; obviously the VERY beginning of the attack qualifies.

It looks like that marshall chased that guy down at least 30 feet and shot him in the back multiple times.

How is that possibly "self defense"?



that guy was headed for a taxi, which was headed for the local airport, which he was then going to fly around earth and sneak up on the marshal...  Cut and dry case. lol

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: destructo_low]
    #13470144 - 11/11/10 06:08 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

destructo_low said:
Maybe it was self defense when the guy was coming at him. I'm not sure if the other guy had a gun or not, but when the dude started running, and he chased, still shooting, it comes out of the territory of self defense. He eliminated the threat and turned into the attacker.




Quote:

destructo_low said:
Maybe it was self defense when the guy was coming at him. I'm not sure if the other guy had a gun or not, but when the dude started running, and he chased, still shooting, it comes out of the territory of self defense. He eliminated the threat and turned into the attacker.




guy had a weapon, cant say for sure it was a gun but at about 1:31 he
pulls something up, treats it like a pistol, he tucked it back into his
waistband and you can see it reflect again at about 1:58 and again at 2:07

it was self defense, the cop cant let him get to a position of cover so
he can return fire or get his boys so they can help return fire, another
example of why you kill whom ever you shoot

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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: CycleThoughts]
    #13470162 - 11/11/10 06:11 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

CycleThoughts said:
How many times did her fire his gun?  I can only see 2, the initial shot, then as he charges him he shoots a second time.  The rest of the confrontation takes place off camera.  The first two shots were justified, if the other guy had a gun.





it looked like he was about to shoot a 3rd time but the assailant fell, I didnt see a muzzle flash for a 3rd shot

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OfflineThe Vapor
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13470200 - 11/11/10 06:19 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I would say it is self defense. Shooting someone and then making sure the problem is dealt with is still self defense, especially if the other guy had a gun like the Marshall said he did.
Quote:


Matthew Itkowitz, an off-duty deputy U.S. marshal, was being beaten and threatened with a gun in an alley off Melrose Avenue when, in fear for his life, he managed to draw his own weapon and fatally shoot his attacker. At least, that's the story Itkowitz told Los Angeles police. What really happened that night in the Fairfax district is less clear-cut. Man in the red shirt is the U.S. Marshall




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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: The Vapor] * 1
    #13470225 - 11/11/10 06:25 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I'm on the same page as most here. It seemed like he was initially threatened (I didn't seem him brandish a gun in his face) and he was walking away when it looked like the marshall was still exchanging words. He then continued to walk at the man, and he just started firing like he was in nam. First shot defense (maybe), then the rest is just to make sure he killed him.


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OfflineChubba
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: PreparationH]
    #13470309 - 11/11/10 06:38 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

IF the guy had a gun/threatened with it, killing was justified.

Could it have been handled better? Yes.

At any point the guy could have turned around and started firing.

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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: j0nnyb0y05]
    #13470324 - 11/11/10 06:39 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Unable to decode blurry movements due to video quality.

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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: PreparationH]
    #13470326 - 11/11/10 06:40 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Running him down is self defense.  Like Pris says, you cant let him get cover, get the upper hand and then kill you.

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OfflineHumility
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: DieCommie] * 1
    #13470940 - 11/11/10 08:37 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Lol you guys, this isn't the military.  I am a voluntaryist for christs' sake; I believe in as few laws as ABSOLUTELY possible (I actually believe in zero laws, but rather community enforced guidelines)

In a voluntaryist world, you would NOT be able to defend SHOOTING A MAN IN THE BACK.  Not under these circumstances.

You guys have to understand, yeah you can talk big shit about what you would do on the Internet and what you would do in the privacy of your homes.  People talk big all the time about how they would gun other people down

But actually being out on the street and getting all fired up, being enraged or whatever because you two were just arguing and shooting a man, then as he runs, running after him for 10-15 feet and shooting him IN HIS BACK and then as he continues to run after the second shot following him further another 10 feet+ and at LEAST shooting him one more time is not just something that a community is going to tolerate.  This is AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIOR.  This guy thinks in a certain way, and his way of thinking is basically "I am so afraid in general of being hurt that if you make me think you're going to hut me, I will kill you."

If he didn't feel that way his first response wouldn't be to chase someone down and gun them down.  The way the guy acted APPEARED malicious.  He was indignant that someone would DARE attempt to assault him, and he was going to show this guy who was the bigger man.

Violence, force, is to be administered in a carefully measured and appropriately-meted out manner.

If you're afraid of the guy pulling his gun, you should shoot him and then run to your vehicle, or run away.  If you afraid of "his boys" being around the corner, you certainly wouldn't follow him running down the street.

Here's a question: if the guy has no weapons on him, only his fists and this altercation happened, was the Marshall justified?  What if the guy had a knife?  Whether someone is armed or

In law, there is a concept known as "appropriate level of response".  If you own land in Texas and an 8 year old girl wanders onto your property and is picking flowers and you SHOOT HER DEAD are you in the right because she was trespassing?  APPROPRIATE level of response when utilizing violence is an important concept that cannot be ignored.

Obviously, appropriate is a subjective term and will vary depending on whom you ask.


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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Humility]
    #13470987 - 11/11/10 08:46 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

That's why we mentioned the gun.  If he had a knife, it was inappropriate, but if he had a gun, he could've simply turned around and returned fire.  Whether or not the guy had a gun is the deciding factor in this case for me.

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OfflineHumility
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: CycleThoughts] * 1
    #13471023 - 11/11/10 08:52 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I would love to see some of you shroom-lovin folk run and gun down some dude and then have a trip.  Maybe that would put things back into perspective?

What part of becoming One is that?


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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Humility]
    #13471024 - 11/11/10 08:52 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Humility, I'm with you man, but I know there will be many who say this is idealistic and could never work in reality (lol, reality). The only valid point I can think of is a "heat of the moment" type thing, where he was so scared/enraged that he couldn't control himself. I didn't watch the video so I can't really say if it applies in this case.

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OfflineHumility
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: pyl91]
    #13471084 - 11/11/10 09:02 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Pyl I understand where you're coming from and you may well be right.  Sometimes the situation does take command of us and makes us act differently than we normally would.


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Offlineigwna
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: destructo_low]
    #13471101 - 11/11/10 09:05 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

destructo_low said:
Maybe it was self defense when the guy was coming at him. I'm not sure if the other guy had a gun or not, but when the dude started running, and he chased, still shooting, it comes out of the territory of self defense. He eliminated the threat and turned into the attacker.





no way. the threat is still present till its been nuetralized. MAYBE from being an officer of the law he shoulda check the guy for weapons then called 911 but still.


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I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.


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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Humility]
    #13471105 - 11/11/10 09:06 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

You could say the other guy bit off more than he can chew.


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OfflineChubba
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Humility]
    #13471648 - 11/11/10 11:19 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I would love to see some of you shroom-lovin folk run and gun down some dude and then have a trip.  Maybe that would put things back into perspective?

What part of becoming One is that?




LOL you tosspot.

If I had a gun and was confronted with a gun in an aggressive manner, I would kill that person at first chance.

You must live in a shelter world where you give up your life in exchange for some stupid high ground.

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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Chubba]
    #13471677 - 11/11/10 11:31 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Chubba said:
Quote:

I would love to see some of you shroom-lovin folk run and gun down some dude and then have a trip.  Maybe that would put things back into perspective?

What part of becoming One is that?




LOL you tosspot.

If I had a gun and was confronted with a gun in an aggressive manner, I would kill that person at first chance.

You must live in a shelter world where you give up your life in exchange for some stupid high ground.



lol yea dude I'd bight someone jugular out to save my own ass.

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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Chubba]
    #13471694 - 11/11/10 11:36 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

what most fail to realize here,. is law enforcement is trained just as the military is when it comes to situations like this,.

you are trained to shoot center mass, and im not there to wound/disable you,. im there to kill/neutralize the threat,.

if and when you hear of people getting shot by the cops and they lived,. either the cop was a bad shot, or the person that got shot was lucky and got to a good doctor in time,.

and the reason it is this way,. is if you have a gun/weapon, and are a big enough threat to me, that it is needed to be responded to in lethal force,.  then you ll be shot to be killed,. why would i want to wound/disable a person with a pistol,. and then have to walk up to said person, to then "help" them,. when they still have a pistol?

make sense?

now,. as for the off duty sheriff or what ever he was,.  i think for me to call if it was justified or not,. id have to have more info on what he was doing there, and how the conflict started,..

if he was minding his own, and said attacker just started messing with him,. then yes,. law enforcement or not,. it was a fair call,.

but now if the off duty sheriff was the one that started or excited the fact more then what it already was,.. then IMHO hes no more then a little common thug punk bitch,. and should be treated as such,. and had no right what so ever as "law enforcement" to of used lethal force,. and should be charged

bout all i got i guess

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OfflineChubba
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: PreparationH]
    #13471706 - 11/11/10 11:41 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

lol yea dude I'd bight someone jugular out to save my own ass.




I don't know if that's sarcastic, if it was my life vs his I would do that.

Seems like a stupid question... why wouldn't you save yourself?

Quote:

but now if the off duty sheriff was the one that started or excited the fact more then what it already was,.. then IMHO hes no more then a little common thug punk bitch,. and should be treated as such,. and had no right what so ever as "law enforcement" to of used lethal force,. and should be charged




I don't disagree with the actions, but I believe he should have announced himself sooner.

Ideally he should have announced himself straight away.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Humility]
    #13471709 - 11/11/10 11:42 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Humility said:
Lol you guys, this isn't the military.

In a voluntaryist world, you would NOT be able to defend SHOOTING A MAN IN THE BACK.  Not under these circumstances.




well it's a good thing you believe in no laws or as few laws as possible
that way we can run around shooting people in the back on a whim and
there's nothing you can do about it because laws are for pussies

this isnt a military decision situation, it's a personal safety issue,
there's no shoot and run, if you run he draws his weapon and shoots you
in the back, if you allow hit to run he takes cover, pulls his weapon
and shoots you while you stand there wondering why you didnt keep shooting

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OfflineChubba
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13471733 - 11/11/10 11:49 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

well it's a good thing you believe in no laws or as few laws as possible
that way we can run around shooting people in the back on a whim and
there's nothing you can do about it because laws are for pussies

this isnt a military decision situation, it's a personal safety issue,
there's no shoot and run, if you run he draws his weapon and shoots you
in the back, if you allow hit to run he takes cover, pulls his weapon
and shoots you while you stand there wondering why you didnt keep shooting




If someone shot me, in anyplace, I would immediately try to kill that person as quick as possible.

I'm dead, it's over... it's either dead or jail (if I'm a criminal), why wouldn't you try to end it right there?.

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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Chubba]
    #13471739 - 11/11/10 11:51 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Chubba said:
Quote:

lol yea dude I'd bight someone jugular out to save my own ass.




I don't know if that's sarcastic, if it was my life vs his I would do that.

Seems like a stupid question... why wouldn't you save yourself?

Quote:

but now if the off duty sheriff was the one that started or excited the fact more then what it already was,.. then IMHO hes no more then a little common thug punk bitch,. and should be treated as such,. and had no right what so ever as "law enforcement" to of used lethal force,. and should be charged




I don't disagree with the actions, but I believe he should have announced himself sooner.

Ideally he should have announced himself straight away.



No sarcasm at all.  Do what you need to do to see another day.

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OfflineChubba
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: PreparationH]
    #13471745 - 11/11/10 11:52 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

No sarcasm at all.  Do what you need to do to see another day.



No harm done then, sounded a bit crazy :vaped: I would strike someone before biting their arteries :sherlock:

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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Chubba]
    #13471759 - 11/11/10 11:56 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

O yea same here but I'll strangle you with my nostrils if I have to.

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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Humility]
    #13471839 - 11/12/10 12:27 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Humility said:
I would love to see some of you shroom-lovin folk run and gun down some dude and then have a trip.  Maybe that would put things back into perspective?

What part of becoming One is that?




I would have absolutely no problem.  Brandish a gun at me, come back at me, and I only shoot you twice and I am ready to arrest (US marsh) i would have absolutely NO regrets.  If the assailant had something less than a gun, then yes, it would be excessive, except we don't know what's around the corner.  Maybe a bunch of other assholes with guns.  Who knows


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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: bbl337]
    #13472156 - 11/12/10 03:26 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Fear over love.

Defending yourself is important, bloodlust is something entirely different

I'm done with this thread, it's clear how I feel and also clear how others think.

Have fun murdering people unnecessarily.  Then when you die, or you trip, or you get old you can ponder on how your actions affected the totality of the world and how what you did helped make the world what it is.

You want to continue to foster a world where your kids get in scuffles and one kid shoots another because he's afraid of dying?  This is bullshit guys, every altercation doesn't have to end in a death, and talking that shit about "OMGZ HE CUDDA HAD A GUN!" is fearmongering, murder-justifying bullshit.

He ran the fucking guy down over 20 feet, as quickly as he did that he could have turned around and run the fuck away.  It's simple man.

Have fun living your lives in fear and distrust, pondering murdering people around any and every corner.


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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Humility]
    #13472188 - 11/12/10 03:51 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Humility said:
Fear over love.

Defending yourself is important, bloodlust is something entirely different

I'm done with this thread, it's clear how I feel and also clear how others think.

Have fun murdering people unnecessarily.  Then when you die, or you trip, or you get old you can ponder on how your actions affected the totality of the world and how what you did helped make the world what it is.

You want to continue to foster a world where your kids get in scuffles and one kid shoots another because he's afraid of dying?  This is bullshit guys, every altercation doesn't have to end in a death, and talking that shit about "OMGZ HE CUDDA HAD A GUN!" is fearmongering, murder-justifying bullshit.

He ran the fucking guy down over 20 feet, as quickly as he did that he could have turned around and run the fuck away.  It's simple man.

Have fun living your lives in fear and distrust, pondering murdering people around any and every corner.



:freshwtf:

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OfflineIdiot
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: PreparationH]
    #13472459 - 11/12/10 07:47 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Depending on the state self defense is has different meanings.  For the most part you're only allowed to apply just enough force to prevent your attacker from injuring you.  Meaning that if you throw your attacker to the ground then punch him you're operating outside the realm of self defense.

Considering this concerns the actions of a cop he'll get a lot of leway and will probably get off, he's defending government property you know.


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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: PreparationH]
    #13472515 - 11/12/10 08:09 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

First shot was self defense, chasing after him shooting him in the back is not.

If I was in that situation (and he did have a gun drawn) I would've had a high capacity magazine pistol like a glock. I would have shot on the charge but I probably would have pumped 4 or 5 into him in rapid succession as fast as I could pull the trigger, aiming for the central body mass, not because I am homicidal or a tough guy but because I would be scared as fuck, he came at me with a gun with sufficient previous threat and wasnt dropping.

I would NOT fire a single shot then watch how he responded to it, not with an assailant with a gun. Its point blank range so no need to double-tap and re-aim.

He probably wasnt planning to use his gun but I would have opened up with a handfull of bullets and probably would've killed him. Sorry, oops. Dont scare me like that.

If he despite my shooting managed to turn and run I would back away immediately, gun aimed for him to take cover behind the car, until he was far enough away not to expect him shooting me then get the hell out of there.

If he raised his gun in an offensive gesture I would've emptied out until he dropped, with a glock 17 thats 17 rounds of 9mm parabellum at point blank range, then reloaded behind the cover of the car.

If he had dropped and I could disarm him I'd do that, call 911 and do some first aid till the paramedics arrived.

I've done enough fast CO2 and airsoft pistol shooting to know I'd probably would have enough hits to drop him.

I'm not rambo or something and my response is way excessive, but I'm determined not to die under any circumstances.


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Edited by Asante (11/12/10 08:38 AM)

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Offlinefeifen

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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Humility]
    #13472593 - 11/12/10 08:35 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Humility said:
Fear over love.

Defending yourself is important, bloodlust is something entirely different

I'm done with this thread, it's clear how I feel and also clear how others think.

Have fun murdering people unnecessarily.  Then when you die, or you trip, or you get old you can ponder on how your actions affected the totality of the world and how what you did helped make the world what it is.

You want to continue to foster a world where your kids get in scuffles and one kid shoots another because he's afraid of dying?  This is bullshit guys, every altercation doesn't have to end in a death, and talking that shit about "OMGZ HE CUDDA HAD A GUN!" is fearmongering, murder-justifying bullshit.

He ran the fucking guy down over 20 feet, as quickly as he did that he could have turned around and run the fuck away.  It's simple man.

Have fun living your lives in fear and distrust, pondering murdering people around any and every corner.




You do realize its illegal to

a. threaten police
b. run away from police
c. attack police
d. pull a gun on the police

if you do anything of the above, expect your chances of living to significantly drop. The man did all 4. Are you serious?

you sound like you grew up under a rock and do not understand in the slightest what violence is, and "being in the moment" He was probably scared the man would pull out his gun and start firing at him. I would of done the same thing if I knew he had a gun.

People like him don't deserve to live. Glad the cop killed him. I have no remorse for the man who died, and oh yeah, I've tripped plenty of times, and its made me realize that some people honestly don't deserve life and this guy was one of them.

If you pull a gun on me you better expect for me to gun you down. Self defense or not, fuck you for toying with my one and only life.

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: feifen]
    #13472637 - 11/12/10 08:51 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

fuck you for toying with my one and only life.





I believe in neverending reincarnation but I agree with you that I'd make sure it's the attacker's turn to start over, not mine.

I agree with you with being in the moment. In my desk chair I'm sure I could've devised a response Gandhi wouldve approved of but on the spot I'd be a complete savage driven only by the urge to survive this at all cost, and I based my post on what I'd probably do if put on the spot. When a guy charges you gun in hand (couldnt see clearly in the vid so I went by that assumption) the last thing on your mind is whether something would look like manslaughter or first degree murder in a court of law.

Chances are the cop was cocky. That I wouldn't do. It looked he wasnt cooperating with whatever the attacker wanted, usually money. Chances are he didnt carry a second wallet with useless cards and enough cash to satisfy a junkie, for the purpose of handing over in case of robbery, like I do. The cop probably also had arresting the guy on his mind, something I wouldnt have to do.

I'd do anything to prevent it but put on the spot I'd do anything to get out of there alive.


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Offlinefeifen

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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Asante]
    #13472659 - 11/12/10 08:57 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I believe extremely similar to you, that the universe recycles itself and that nothing really truly dies, just in another shape of energy.

But yeah, I'm not going to lie, I have been attacked before and I am honestly a savage when it comes to feeling threatened. It's all nice to say "well I wouldn't do it!" until your face is getting smashed in and you lose it.

I wasn't there so I can't say exactly what is what and wrong, and I'm not one to judge, but honestly, if you plan on threatning/mugging people, expect for shit to go wrong and you meet the wrong person :shrug:

I always carry because of past experiences.....

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InvisibleCycleThoughts
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Asante]
    #13472675 - 11/12/10 09:01 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
First shot was self defense, chasing after him shooting him in the back is not.

If I was in that situation (and he did have a gun drawn) I would've had a high capacity magazine pistol like a glock. I would have shot on the charge but I probably would have pumped 4 or 5 into him in rapid succession as fast as I could pull the trigger, aiming for the central body mass, not because I am homicidal or a tough guy but because I would be scared as fuck, he came at me with a gun with sufficient previous threat and wasnt dropping.

I would NOT fire a single shot then watch how he responded to it, not with an assailant with a gun. Its point blank range so no need to double-tap and re-aim.

He probably wasnt planning to use his gun but I would have opened up with a handfull of bullets and probably would've killed him. Sorry, oops. Dont scare me like that.

If he despite my shooting managed to turn and run I would back away immediately, gun aimed for him to take cover behind the car, until he was far enough away not to expect him shooting me then get the hell out of there.

If he raised his gun in an offensive gesture I would've emptied out until he dropped, with a glock 17 thats 17 rounds of 9mm parabellum at point blank range, then reloaded behind the cover of the car.

If he had dropped and I could disarm him I'd do that, call 911 and do some first aid till the paramedics arrived.

I've done enough fast CO2 and airsoft pistol shooting to know I'd probably would have enough hits to drop him.

I'm not rambo or something and my response is way excessive, but I'm determined not to die under any circumstances.





Your brain works mighty fast in the heat of the moment.  I doubt it would work out like you imagine, but we like to think we'd operate a certain way.

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InvisibleCycleThoughts
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Humility]
    #13472688 - 11/12/10 09:04 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Humility said:
Fear over love.

Defending yourself is important, bloodlust is something entirely different

I'm done with this thread, it's clear how I feel and also clear how others think.

Have fun murdering people unnecessarily.  Then when you die, or you trip, or you get old you can ponder on how your actions affected the totality of the world and how what you did helped make the world what it is.

You want to continue to foster a world where your kids get in scuffles and one kid shoots another because he's afraid of dying?  This is bullshit guys, every altercation doesn't have to end in a death, and talking that shit about "OMGZ HE CUDDA HAD A GUN!" is fearmongering, murder-justifying bullshit.

He ran the fucking guy down over 20 feet, as quickly as he did that he could have turned around and run the fuck away.  It's simple man.

Have fun living your lives in fear and distrust, pondering murdering people around any and every corner.




Fear over love?  If you're ever in that position, you can love the guy with the gun threatening you and then you won't have to ponder killing him, because he'll have already killed you.

As for "how your actions affected the totality of the world".  You probably made it a BETTER place by killing that piece of shit.  I know I've never pulled a gun on anyone, or even brought it outside of my home other than to the gun range.

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: CycleThoughts]
    #13472801 - 11/12/10 09:34 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Well you only know it when on the spot, but given the variables its pretty likely I'd draw and open up immediately with a lot of bullets and at point blank range given my fast drawing/shooting experience with CO2 and Airsoft most will be near where I should be.

I probably wouldn't freeze. Theres enough advance warning and I've been attacked several times in my life and in all cases but one (being clocked in the face by someone in a bar I wasn't in a confrontation with or even facing) I reacted promptly and adequately without even thinking.

A firearm is not an airgun or airsoft but I can fast draw and shoot accurately, certainly at point blank range - looking at the target, not the sights - and fired a few thousand shots like that, static and dynamic. Its not the same but it does hone the skill of hitting stuff at the drop of a hat.

If I carried a firearm I'd have ample previous experience with that one too or I wouldnt be carrying it.

I live in Holland though not the US, you are much more likely to be faced by bare knuckles, an anemic blade or a screwdriver here than anyone with a gun, at least in my neck of the woods.

I wouldnt be carrying a gun and neither would he.


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Edited by Asante (11/12/10 09:36 AM)

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OfflineDisgruntled
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Asante]
    #13473704 - 11/12/10 01:04 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

"You do realize its illegal to

a. threaten police
b. run away from police
c. attack police
d. pull a gun on the police

if you do anything of the above, expect your chances of living to significantly drop. The man did all 4. Are you serious?"

if im not mistaken,. the cop was OFF duty, and in civi clothing,. and id bet probably did not tell the attacker he was a cop,.. and even if he did,. i doubt it would of affected the out come of the attacker,..

but as somone said about he will get off cause hes a cop,.. in my book,. your a cop, when your ON duty,. and arent shit when you OFF,. just another civi,. and should be treated as such,. with no special rights,

""Defending yourself is important, bloodlust is something entirely different""

yes they are,. and i know for a fact,. because ive experienced them both first hand before,. and in my book, i would say unless the cop is the one that started the whole situation,. its self defense,. and not a case of bloodlust,.. that is unless this has happened a few times in the past,.

if we where to get into a fight,. be it with fist/knives/guns,. nomatter if your my friend or not,.

im going to do my best to seriously hurt you, and do it as fast as i can,. otherwise im the one that will get hurt/killed,.. when it comes to this point,. your not there to be the persons "friend" your there to do what you have to to protect yourself. even if its done by killing,

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OfflineDisgruntled
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Disgruntled]
    #13473712 - 11/12/10 01:06 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

"fuck you for toying with my one and only life":thumbup:

100% behind that

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OfflineChubba
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Disgruntled]
    #13475735 - 11/12/10 08:25 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

but as somone said about he will get off cause hes a cop,.. in my book,. your a cop, when your ON duty,. and arent shit when you OFF,. just another civi,. and should be treated as such,. with no special rights,




I don't know about the USA but in Australia all police officers retain full powers off-duty, all that is required is a verbal statement (eg. "I am a police officer").

It's a very fair law because the penalties for impersonating an officer are very serious.

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OfflineDisgruntled
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Chubba]
    #13476051 - 11/12/10 09:49 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

yeah,. but at the same time its bull shit,.. if someone is going to hurt you or has ill intentions already,.. you think they give a shit about getting in trouble for impersonating a law officer? like if you truested them youd be fucked,.  thats why i think its shit,..


and i dont mean it in a mean way towards you by anymeans,.. just think its a stupid law,..

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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Chubba]
    #13476405 - 11/12/10 11:34 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Chubba said:
Quote:

but as somone said about he will get off cause hes a cop,.. in my book,. your a cop, when your ON duty,. and arent shit when you OFF,. just another civi,. and should be treated as such,. with no special rights,




I don't know about the USA but in Australia all police officers retain full powers off-duty, all that is required is a verbal statement (eg. "I am a police officer").

It's a very fair law because the penalties for impersonating an officer are very serious.



Good for them, I would rather have officers of the law who keeps their mouths shut that when push comes to shove they smack 3 bullets into a criminal so that I don't have to pay for their "rehabilitation."

Now, this is all relative depending on whether this cat has a weapon or not.

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