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Offlineigwna
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: destructo_low]
    #13471101 - 11/11/10 09:05 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

destructo_low said:
Maybe it was self defense when the guy was coming at him. I'm not sure if the other guy had a gun or not, but when the dude started running, and he chased, still shooting, it comes out of the territory of self defense. He eliminated the threat and turned into the attacker.





no way. the threat is still present till its been nuetralized. MAYBE from being an officer of the law he shoulda check the guy for weapons then called 911 but still.


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I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.


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Invisiblegzuf
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Humility]
    #13471105 - 11/11/10 09:06 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

You could say the other guy bit off more than he can chew.


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OfflineChubba
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Humility]
    #13471648 - 11/11/10 11:19 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

I would love to see some of you shroom-lovin folk run and gun down some dude and then have a trip.  Maybe that would put things back into perspective?

What part of becoming One is that?




LOL you tosspot.

If I had a gun and was confronted with a gun in an aggressive manner, I would kill that person at first chance.

You must live in a shelter world where you give up your life in exchange for some stupid high ground.

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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Chubba]
    #13471677 - 11/11/10 11:31 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Chubba said:
Quote:

I would love to see some of you shroom-lovin folk run and gun down some dude and then have a trip.  Maybe that would put things back into perspective?

What part of becoming One is that?




LOL you tosspot.

If I had a gun and was confronted with a gun in an aggressive manner, I would kill that person at first chance.

You must live in a shelter world where you give up your life in exchange for some stupid high ground.



lol yea dude I'd bight someone jugular out to save my own ass.

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OfflineDisgruntled
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Registered: 10/24/10
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Chubba]
    #13471694 - 11/11/10 11:36 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

what most fail to realize here,. is law enforcement is trained just as the military is when it comes to situations like this,.

you are trained to shoot center mass, and im not there to wound/disable you,. im there to kill/neutralize the threat,.

if and when you hear of people getting shot by the cops and they lived,. either the cop was a bad shot, or the person that got shot was lucky and got to a good doctor in time,.

and the reason it is this way,. is if you have a gun/weapon, and are a big enough threat to me, that it is needed to be responded to in lethal force,.  then you ll be shot to be killed,. why would i want to wound/disable a person with a pistol,. and then have to walk up to said person, to then "help" them,. when they still have a pistol?

make sense?

now,. as for the off duty sheriff or what ever he was,.  i think for me to call if it was justified or not,. id have to have more info on what he was doing there, and how the conflict started,..

if he was minding his own, and said attacker just started messing with him,. then yes,. law enforcement or not,. it was a fair call,.

but now if the off duty sheriff was the one that started or excited the fact more then what it already was,.. then IMHO hes no more then a little common thug punk bitch,. and should be treated as such,. and had no right what so ever as "law enforcement" to of used lethal force,. and should be charged

bout all i got i guess

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OfflineChubba
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: PreparationH]
    #13471706 - 11/11/10 11:41 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

lol yea dude I'd bight someone jugular out to save my own ass.




I don't know if that's sarcastic, if it was my life vs his I would do that.

Seems like a stupid question... why wouldn't you save yourself?

Quote:

but now if the off duty sheriff was the one that started or excited the fact more then what it already was,.. then IMHO hes no more then a little common thug punk bitch,. and should be treated as such,. and had no right what so ever as "law enforcement" to of used lethal force,. and should be charged




I don't disagree with the actions, but I believe he should have announced himself sooner.

Ideally he should have announced himself straight away.

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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Humility]
    #13471709 - 11/11/10 11:42 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Humility said:
Lol you guys, this isn't the military.

In a voluntaryist world, you would NOT be able to defend SHOOTING A MAN IN THE BACK.  Not under these circumstances.




well it's a good thing you believe in no laws or as few laws as possible
that way we can run around shooting people in the back on a whim and
there's nothing you can do about it because laws are for pussies

this isnt a military decision situation, it's a personal safety issue,
there's no shoot and run, if you run he draws his weapon and shoots you
in the back, if you allow hit to run he takes cover, pulls his weapon
and shoots you while you stand there wondering why you didnt keep shooting

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OfflineChubba
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #13471733 - 11/11/10 11:49 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

well it's a good thing you believe in no laws or as few laws as possible
that way we can run around shooting people in the back on a whim and
there's nothing you can do about it because laws are for pussies

this isnt a military decision situation, it's a personal safety issue,
there's no shoot and run, if you run he draws his weapon and shoots you
in the back, if you allow hit to run he takes cover, pulls his weapon
and shoots you while you stand there wondering why you didnt keep shooting




If someone shot me, in anyplace, I would immediately try to kill that person as quick as possible.

I'm dead, it's over... it's either dead or jail (if I'm a criminal), why wouldn't you try to end it right there?.

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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Chubba]
    #13471739 - 11/11/10 11:51 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Chubba said:
Quote:

lol yea dude I'd bight someone jugular out to save my own ass.




I don't know if that's sarcastic, if it was my life vs his I would do that.

Seems like a stupid question... why wouldn't you save yourself?

Quote:

but now if the off duty sheriff was the one that started or excited the fact more then what it already was,.. then IMHO hes no more then a little common thug punk bitch,. and should be treated as such,. and had no right what so ever as "law enforcement" to of used lethal force,. and should be charged




I don't disagree with the actions, but I believe he should have announced himself sooner.

Ideally he should have announced himself straight away.



No sarcasm at all.  Do what you need to do to see another day.

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OfflineChubba
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: PreparationH]
    #13471745 - 11/11/10 11:52 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

No sarcasm at all.  Do what you need to do to see another day.



No harm done then, sounded a bit crazy :vaped: I would strike someone before biting their arteries :sherlock:

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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Chubba]
    #13471759 - 11/11/10 11:56 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

O yea same here but I'll strangle you with my nostrils if I have to.

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Offlinebbl337
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Humility]
    #13471839 - 11/12/10 12:27 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Humility said:
I would love to see some of you shroom-lovin folk run and gun down some dude and then have a trip.  Maybe that would put things back into perspective?

What part of becoming One is that?




I would have absolutely no problem.  Brandish a gun at me, come back at me, and I only shoot you twice and I am ready to arrest (US marsh) i would have absolutely NO regrets.  If the assailant had something less than a gun, then yes, it would be excessive, except we don't know what's around the corner.  Maybe a bunch of other assholes with guns.  Who knows


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OfflineHumility
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: bbl337]
    #13472156 - 11/12/10 03:26 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Fear over love.

Defending yourself is important, bloodlust is something entirely different

I'm done with this thread, it's clear how I feel and also clear how others think.

Have fun murdering people unnecessarily.  Then when you die, or you trip, or you get old you can ponder on how your actions affected the totality of the world and how what you did helped make the world what it is.

You want to continue to foster a world where your kids get in scuffles and one kid shoots another because he's afraid of dying?  This is bullshit guys, every altercation doesn't have to end in a death, and talking that shit about "OMGZ HE CUDDA HAD A GUN!" is fearmongering, murder-justifying bullshit.

He ran the fucking guy down over 20 feet, as quickly as he did that he could have turned around and run the fuck away.  It's simple man.

Have fun living your lives in fear and distrust, pondering murdering people around any and every corner.


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OfflinePreparationH
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Humility]
    #13472188 - 11/12/10 03:51 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Humility said:
Fear over love.

Defending yourself is important, bloodlust is something entirely different

I'm done with this thread, it's clear how I feel and also clear how others think.

Have fun murdering people unnecessarily.  Then when you die, or you trip, or you get old you can ponder on how your actions affected the totality of the world and how what you did helped make the world what it is.

You want to continue to foster a world where your kids get in scuffles and one kid shoots another because he's afraid of dying?  This is bullshit guys, every altercation doesn't have to end in a death, and talking that shit about "OMGZ HE CUDDA HAD A GUN!" is fearmongering, murder-justifying bullshit.

He ran the fucking guy down over 20 feet, as quickly as he did that he could have turned around and run the fuck away.  It's simple man.

Have fun living your lives in fear and distrust, pondering murdering people around any and every corner.



:freshwtf:

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OfflineIdiot
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: PreparationH]
    #13472459 - 11/12/10 07:47 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Depending on the state self defense is has different meanings.  For the most part you're only allowed to apply just enough force to prevent your attacker from injuring you.  Meaning that if you throw your attacker to the ground then punch him you're operating outside the realm of self defense.

Considering this concerns the actions of a cop he'll get a lot of leway and will probably get off, he's defending government property you know.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: PreparationH]
    #13472515 - 11/12/10 08:09 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

First shot was self defense, chasing after him shooting him in the back is not.

If I was in that situation (and he did have a gun drawn) I would've had a high capacity magazine pistol like a glock. I would have shot on the charge but I probably would have pumped 4 or 5 into him in rapid succession as fast as I could pull the trigger, aiming for the central body mass, not because I am homicidal or a tough guy but because I would be scared as fuck, he came at me with a gun with sufficient previous threat and wasnt dropping.

I would NOT fire a single shot then watch how he responded to it, not with an assailant with a gun. Its point blank range so no need to double-tap and re-aim.

He probably wasnt planning to use his gun but I would have opened up with a handfull of bullets and probably would've killed him. Sorry, oops. Dont scare me like that.

If he despite my shooting managed to turn and run I would back away immediately, gun aimed for him to take cover behind the car, until he was far enough away not to expect him shooting me then get the hell out of there.

If he raised his gun in an offensive gesture I would've emptied out until he dropped, with a glock 17 thats 17 rounds of 9mm parabellum at point blank range, then reloaded behind the cover of the car.

If he had dropped and I could disarm him I'd do that, call 911 and do some first aid till the paramedics arrived.

I've done enough fast CO2 and airsoft pistol shooting to know I'd probably would have enough hits to drop him.

I'm not rambo or something and my response is way excessive, but I'm determined not to die under any circumstances.


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higher knowledge starts here

Edited by Asante (11/12/10 08:38 AM)

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Offlinefeifen

Registered: 10/18/08
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Humility]
    #13472593 - 11/12/10 08:35 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Humility said:
Fear over love.

Defending yourself is important, bloodlust is something entirely different

I'm done with this thread, it's clear how I feel and also clear how others think.

Have fun murdering people unnecessarily.  Then when you die, or you trip, or you get old you can ponder on how your actions affected the totality of the world and how what you did helped make the world what it is.

You want to continue to foster a world where your kids get in scuffles and one kid shoots another because he's afraid of dying?  This is bullshit guys, every altercation doesn't have to end in a death, and talking that shit about "OMGZ HE CUDDA HAD A GUN!" is fearmongering, murder-justifying bullshit.

He ran the fucking guy down over 20 feet, as quickly as he did that he could have turned around and run the fuck away.  It's simple man.

Have fun living your lives in fear and distrust, pondering murdering people around any and every corner.




You do realize its illegal to

a. threaten police
b. run away from police
c. attack police
d. pull a gun on the police

if you do anything of the above, expect your chances of living to significantly drop. The man did all 4. Are you serious?

you sound like you grew up under a rock and do not understand in the slightest what violence is, and "being in the moment" He was probably scared the man would pull out his gun and start firing at him. I would of done the same thing if I knew he had a gun.

People like him don't deserve to live. Glad the cop killed him. I have no remorse for the man who died, and oh yeah, I've tripped plenty of times, and its made me realize that some people honestly don't deserve life and this guy was one of them.

If you pull a gun on me you better expect for me to gun you down. Self defense or not, fuck you for toying with my one and only life.

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: feifen]
    #13472637 - 11/12/10 08:51 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

fuck you for toying with my one and only life.





I believe in neverending reincarnation but I agree with you that I'd make sure it's the attacker's turn to start over, not mine.

I agree with you with being in the moment. In my desk chair I'm sure I could've devised a response Gandhi wouldve approved of but on the spot I'd be a complete savage driven only by the urge to survive this at all cost, and I based my post on what I'd probably do if put on the spot. When a guy charges you gun in hand (couldnt see clearly in the vid so I went by that assumption) the last thing on your mind is whether something would look like manslaughter or first degree murder in a court of law.

Chances are the cop was cocky. That I wouldn't do. It looked he wasnt cooperating with whatever the attacker wanted, usually money. Chances are he didnt carry a second wallet with useless cards and enough cash to satisfy a junkie, for the purpose of handing over in case of robbery, like I do. The cop probably also had arresting the guy on his mind, something I wouldnt have to do.

I'd do anything to prevent it but put on the spot I'd do anything to get out of there alive.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

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Offlinefeifen

Registered: 10/18/08
Posts: 7,040
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Asante]
    #13472659 - 11/12/10 08:57 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I believe extremely similar to you, that the universe recycles itself and that nothing really truly dies, just in another shape of energy.

But yeah, I'm not going to lie, I have been attacked before and I am honestly a savage when it comes to feeling threatened. It's all nice to say "well I wouldn't do it!" until your face is getting smashed in and you lose it.

I wasn't there so I can't say exactly what is what and wrong, and I'm not one to judge, but honestly, if you plan on threatning/mugging people, expect for shit to go wrong and you meet the wrong person :shrug:

I always carry because of past experiences.....

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InvisibleCycleThoughts
Researcher
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Registered: 08/03/09
Posts: 1,866
Re: Self defense or not? (VIDEO) [Re: Asante]
    #13472675 - 11/12/10 09:01 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
First shot was self defense, chasing after him shooting him in the back is not.

If I was in that situation (and he did have a gun drawn) I would've had a high capacity magazine pistol like a glock. I would have shot on the charge but I probably would have pumped 4 or 5 into him in rapid succession as fast as I could pull the trigger, aiming for the central body mass, not because I am homicidal or a tough guy but because I would be scared as fuck, he came at me with a gun with sufficient previous threat and wasnt dropping.

I would NOT fire a single shot then watch how he responded to it, not with an assailant with a gun. Its point blank range so no need to double-tap and re-aim.

He probably wasnt planning to use his gun but I would have opened up with a handfull of bullets and probably would've killed him. Sorry, oops. Dont scare me like that.

If he despite my shooting managed to turn and run I would back away immediately, gun aimed for him to take cover behind the car, until he was far enough away not to expect him shooting me then get the hell out of there.

If he raised his gun in an offensive gesture I would've emptied out until he dropped, with a glock 17 thats 17 rounds of 9mm parabellum at point blank range, then reloaded behind the cover of the car.

If he had dropped and I could disarm him I'd do that, call 911 and do some first aid till the paramedics arrived.

I've done enough fast CO2 and airsoft pistol shooting to know I'd probably would have enough hits to drop him.

I'm not rambo or something and my response is way excessive, but I'm determined not to die under any circumstances.





Your brain works mighty fast in the heat of the moment.  I doubt it would work out like you imagine, but we like to think we'd operate a certain way.

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