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Offlinepsilyguy
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Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 3,305
Last seen: 12 years, 13 days
Re: Drugs and Politics [Re: mianfei]
    #13451882 - 11/08/10 01:02 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

i don't get how it could ever be legalized without taxation and regulation. i'm not saying whether or not thats the right way to do it. i literally don't get how that would happen. i'm under the impression that everything is regulated, if not taxed as well. so what's legal marijuana without that? is it the same as it is now, just no one gets arrested or fined?


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InvisibleGreen_T
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Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 4,042
Loc: UK Flag
Re: Drugs and Politics [Re: psilyguy]
    #13452125 - 11/08/10 02:37 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

^ QFT. People need to put things in perspective. EVERYTHING you purchase is taxed. Whether or not there should be a "sin tax" is up to debate (in the mainstream, anyway). Sin taxes are generally designed to recoup some of the damage that certain things cause. But what damage does marijuana cause, that a tax could cover?

Also, as far as regulation goes, most everything sold is regulated: especially food and produce! Imagine if someone grows some cannabis, doesn't dry it properly, keeps it in a damp shed and then goes around selling it and people get sick from Stachybotrys mold?

I think the CCHHI bill is the ideal situation.


--------------------

"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson

Legalize Meth | Drug War Victims


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OfflineAlexD
Stranger


Registered: 05/28/10
Posts: 347
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Drugs and Politics [Re: mianfei]
    #13452228 - 11/08/10 03:51 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I did a Pearson correlation between voting patterns during the 2008 presidential election (I did not feel i had the time to seek data for the recent congressional elections) and support for drugs, and found that there is a very strong correlation between support for the Democratic Party and support for regulation and taxation of marijuana. The coefficient of correlation was +0.7058.

This suggests drug legalization is a partisan issue, but I have always thought the issue is more complicated because highly right-leaning people may well believe that drugs should be legalized, but not taxed or regulated.




http://www.gallup.com/poll/144086/New-High-Americans-Support-Legalizing-Marijuana.aspx

While I have little understanding of what "Pearson correlation" means, any given poll shows correlation between being a Democrat and being a legalization supporter. However this correlation is hardly a strong one: about 40% of Dems don't support legalization, which is marginally better than independents. It's much stronger for liberals, and the strongest for libertarians.


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Invisiblemianfei
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Registered: 05/23/10
Posts: 64
Loc: Victoria, Australia Flag
Re: Drugs and Politics [Re: psilyguy] * 1
    #13455189 - 11/08/10 06:20 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

psilyguy said:
i don't get how it could ever be legalized without taxation and regulation. i'm not saying whether or not thats the right way to do it. i literally don't get how that would happen. i'm under the impression that everything is regulated, if not taxed as well. so what's legal marijuana without that? is it the same as it is now, just no one gets arrested or fined?


Libertarians like the Austrian School of Economics (see here for a basic overview) argue that it is counterproductive to prohibit even the most harmful substances. They believe that a totally free market without such interferences that we take for granted as useful like:
  • government welfare
  • public education
  • environmental laws
  • safety laws
  • central banks
would be able to provide incentives to avoid the use of dangerous substances and encourage people to plan for steady growth in wealth and strong families to protect them when they are not able to work. In the case of drugs, this would mean that because no safety net from public welfare exists, those who currently receive it would have to work for low wages and save most of that money to have a family and cater for the time when they cannot work. Under the obligation to work to earn money rather than being “force fed” money from the taxes of those who work, those currently on welfare would according to the Austrian School become more responsible and would have neither the money nor the inclination to take dangerous drugs.

I cannot emphasise enough how radically different a viewpoint the Austrian School’s is from that of what Hans Hoppe calls “modal libertarians” and which are more correctly called “libertines” (similar word but very different meaning). More than that, in the mind of these libertarians, legalisation in this form would also be radically different from “the same as it is now, just no one gets arrested or fined”.


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InvisibleJavadog
Continuing along
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Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 7,385
Loc: USA Flag
Re: Drugs and Politics [Re: mianfei]
    #13455575 - 11/08/10 07:30 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

It stands to reason.

If I do not own my failures, then I do not own my successes.

Along similar lines, studies have found that people most
often use the time the government gives them to find a new
job, no matter how short or long their state's unemployment
payments last.

Good luck!

JD


--------------------
Boyd Rice told my brother that life is a corny pack of freesakes

Myco-tek.org


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Offlinepsilyguy
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Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 3,305
Last seen: 12 years, 13 days
Re: Drugs and Politics [Re: mianfei]
    #13455654 - 11/08/10 07:47 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

that didn't address my question at all. why did you quote me?


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Invisiblemianfei
Mr.
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Registered: 05/23/10
Posts: 64
Loc: Victoria, Australia Flag
Re: Drugs and Politics [Re: psilyguy]
    #13456665 - 11/08/10 10:37 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

psilyguy,

I am really sorry if you think I didn't address your question.

What I was trying to do was to show how different the libertarian right is from the left-wing supporters of drug legalisation.


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Drugs and Politics [Re: mianfei]
    #13456744 - 11/08/10 11:00 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mianfei said:
psilyguy,

I am really sorry if you think I didn't address your question.

What I was trying to do was to show how different the libertarian right is from the left-wing supporters of drug legalisation.



I really don't think his question was addressing liberalism vs. libertarianism so much as pragmatism vs. idealism.  I would put myself in the liberal camp, and I'd say that in an ideal world marijuana would be legal and untaxed.  But I recognize that we don't live in that world, and that any effective legalization measure is going to end up taxing marijuana like we do with alcohol.  And that's fine.  The tax is a relatively minor restriction on liberty compared to locking people up for using this substance.


--------------------


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