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InvisibleDoc_T
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Prop 19- so what?
    #13427453 - 11/03/10 06:23 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

How does this change anything for anybody here?
Anybody going to stop smoking, or smoke less?
Anybody think they'll have a harder time finding weed, or that the price will go up?

And how many of you are in possession of less than an ounce anyway?

Yes, it would be nice if all laws made sense and MJ was regulated the same as alcohol or tobacco.
But there's bigger issues, more important things to spend time and money and effort on.

I'm going to go roll a joint, BRB.


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OfflineAlexD
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Re: Prop 19- so what? [Re: Doc_T]
    #13427583 - 11/03/10 07:29 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

It would have meant that a) coffee-shops come into existence (I would visit Cali for that), thus you could visit and legally try wide variety of strains b) pot/paraphernalia/smell is no longer probable cause c) you can grow legally without med card d) no fines. Also it would have been a big deal for the legalization movement.


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Prop 19- so what? [Re: AlexD]
    #13427596 - 11/03/10 07:34 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

a) would be nice
b) never been an issue for me or anybody I know. (except once a bag was left out on a car seat.)
c) nobody would grow because of a)
d) when's the last time you paid a fine? and are taxes better?


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OfflineAlexD
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Re: Prop 19- so what? [Re: Doc_T]
    #13427633 - 11/03/10 07:52 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

never been an issue for me or anybody I know




You're lucky. If you grow/smoke, police comes near your house and they sense it (see something through window, smell etc) it may become an issue.

http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2010/10/machine-gun_toting_cops_raid_legal_pot_patient_for.php

Quote:

nobody would grow because of a)




I don't know I would grow. I take it many med patients in Cali are growing.

Quote:

when's the last time you paid a fine? and are taxes better?




Never but I'm not in US. You mean sales tax? I see no reason why sales of pot should be an exception. All sales are taxed :shrug:


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Prop 19- so what? [Re: AlexD]
    #13427648 - 11/03/10 07:58 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I think home growing would be like homebrewing, a rare quaint hobby.


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OfflineAlexD
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Re: Prop 19- so what? [Re: Doc_T]
    #13427681 - 11/03/10 08:11 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I think home growing would be like homebrewing, a rare quaint hobby.




It's different. Grow process is more fun, it's beautiful, you can get a year supply from one plant and it takes little space to be stored. The spiritual nature of high makes it more exciting to grow as well as the fact that different strains can mean different highs not just tastes.


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Offlinerealfuzzhead
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Re: Prop 19- so what? [Re: AlexD]
    #13431814 - 11/03/10 11:27 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

dude fuck that, so what it does not change too much but this would have done so much more for just YOU or ME, it would have started to change public perception on the drug and allowed us to challenge the government with a full head of steam

The movement will not stop and has actually gotten more motivated because of this but the passage of this prop would have been amazing

marijuana will eventually just be grown by anyone who wants and will be a beautiful part of our society with many benefits, and a beautiful alternative to alcohol to present to fututre generations.

LEGALIZE


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OfflineManianFHS
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Re: Prop 19- so what? [Re: realfuzzhead]
    #13440557 - 11/05/10 07:50 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Yes paying taxes is better. Legalized cannabis would have brought a huge tourist crowd to Cali, even from other countries. The tax revenue just from the hotels, transportation, gas, food, and other minor purchases separate from the drug would have provided stimulation to an economy that is currently floating in a toilet.

Whatever though... its over for the time being.. time to focus on other shite


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InvisibleDickhead
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Re: Prop 19- so what? [Re: ManianFH]
    #13488617 - 11/15/10 04:48 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

A) Would have been AMAZING!  Not nice.
B) I would love to not have to hide in anyway smoking a joint on the street, or having it be heaty to be in a car with weed.
C) I would.  I bet PLENTY would.
D) I would love to not have to hide in anyway smoking a joint on the street, or having it be heaty to be in a car with weed.

Seems unfortunate it did not pass.


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Prop 19- so what? [Re: Dickhead]
    #13488666 - 11/15/10 04:59 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I can smoke a joint anywhere in public I could drink a beer, with about that much discretion. :shrug:
I doubt most folks in the US really need to worry too much about personal possession under an ounce.


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InvisibleDickhead
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Re: Prop 19- so what? [Re: Doc_T]
    #13488737 - 11/15/10 05:11 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

2009 arrests Up 4600% in NYC since 1990. 
http://cannabisculture.com/v2/content/2010/04/03/New-York-City-Pot-Arrests-2009-Second-Highest-Total-Ever

Quote:

New York city police made 46,400 lowest level marijuana possession arrests [NY State Penal Law 221.10] involving cases where marijuana was either used or possessed in public. Of those arrested, 54 percent were African American, 33 percent were Hispanic, and only ten percent were Caucasian.




You must be white.


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Prop 19- so what? [Re: Dickhead]
    #13488752 - 11/15/10 05:14 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Nice strawman argument, but Prop 19 does nothing about racist cops or inequitable social structures.


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InvisibleDickhead
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Re: Prop 19- so what? [Re: Doc_T]
    #13489010 - 11/15/10 06:01 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

True...  I just thought it was interesting.

But those 46000 people would not have been arrested if marijuana was legal to possess.  It stands to argue against your point that no one need worry about minor possession.  That is 46000 in New York alone for 2009 that need worry.


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InvisibleDoc_T
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Re: Prop 19- so what? [Re: Dickhead]
    #13489029 - 11/15/10 06:04 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I bet at least 45,000 of them were arrested for something else that didn't stick or got argued down.
Without a pot charge to cop to, they have to take the hit for a bump of speed or smack or whatever.

By your logic, Prop 19 is going to throw thousands into life sentences on their third strike. 

:shrug:

What's Cali law got to do with New York City anyway?


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InvisibleGreen_T
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Re: Prop 19- so what? [Re: realfuzzhead]
    #13496436 - 11/17/10 02:43 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

realfuzzhead said:
dude fuck that, so what it does not change too much but this would have done so much more for just YOU or ME, it would have started to change public perception on the drug and allowed us to challenge the government with a full head of steam

The movement will not stop and has actually gotten more motivated because of this but the passage of this prop would have been amazing

marijuana will eventually just be grown by anyone who wants and will be a beautiful part of our society with many benefits, and a beautiful alternative to alcohol to present to fututre generations.

LEGALIZE




+:mushroom2:

People seemed to miss the bigger picture. For the first time, people would have stood up and showed they want the plant to be able to be sold openly. This would have started a seachange in how politicians and the public view cannabis. It would have shown that people want it legal. Prop 19 didn't go all the way (I called it "partial-legalization"), but it would have made cannabis more legal in CA than in the Netherlands.

Instead, people were too busy wondering about how it would affect THEM.

As Mick said, this battle is lost, but we need to pick up our swords, go to the next one and continue fighting.


--------------------

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OfflineChronicCluster
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Re: Prop 19- so what? [Re: Doc_T]
    #13496489 - 11/17/10 03:15 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
How does this change anything for anybody here?
Anybody going to stop smoking, or smoke less?
Anybody think they'll have a harder time finding weed, or that the price will go up?

And how many of you are in possession of less than an ounce anyway?

Yes, it would be nice if all laws made sense and MJ was regulated the same as alcohol or tobacco.
But there's bigger issues, more important things to spend time and money and effort on.

I'm going to go roll a joint, BRB.



Doesn't change anything.  Just makes me more jaded about our shitty political system.
I'll smoke however much I damned well please. :shrug:  I don't smoke much anyways.
harder time?  I doubt it.  got some decent connects.

I got about 2 grams on me right now.  :shrug:  That'll last me at least until saturday.  I'll probably want to get more by then though.


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InvisibleDickhead
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Re: Prop 19- so what? [Re: Doc_T]
    #13498629 - 11/17/10 02:40 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Doc_T said:
I bet at least 45,000 of them were arrested for something else that didn't stick or got argued down.
Without a pot charge to cop to, they have to take the hit for a bump of speed or smack or whatever.




You sound like a politician actually, arguing that most Marijuana smokers use other drugs/commit worse crimes.  Nothing suggests that.  You are speculating.  Some of them were likely School teachers, or firefighters. These people would lose their jobs.

A possession charge is a possession charge.  Let's say you get into a bar fight.  You get arrested, they find 7g's of weed on you.  If it were legal, It wouldn't have any effect on the case or sentence.  If Illegal, then you face 2 charges and likely a much harsher punishment.

Quote:

By your logic, Prop 19 is going to throw thousands into life sentences on their third strike.


 

I have no idea how you come to this conclusion or what it even really means. But, lets say however, you have 2 strikes(Manslaughter and Robbery).  You get released on Parole, a truly Changed man; then you are caught with half O of weed.  BAM, back to jail. 

Quote:


What's Cali law got to do with New York City anyway?




Was arguing against your statement, here:

Quote:

Doc_T said:

I doubt most folks in the US really need to worry too much about personal possession under an ounce.




Arrest and prosecution for each individual can be extremely damaging without jail... The money, time and exposure of any arrest can easily derail your personal or professional life.  What if you were a Kindergarten teacher?? 

In America, laws CAN and DO change.  An imperfect bill, once passed could have been ratified through the following years.  I do not know the big issue that scared everyone off of Prop 19, I have read a summary of the bill.  I would like to know the big issues.  I hope they are important enough to endure at least 2 more years of arrest and prosecution of innocent puffers.

I believe the Prop 19 vote was lost to a divide and conquer strategy.  I believe if it had passed all of North America would have soon followed suit.  Now, you may find much of the wind draining from our sails instead of a huge celebration and plenty of inspiration to keep going.   

Again, what was the huge problem with Prop 19 please?


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OfflineChronicCluster
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Re: Prop 19- so what? [Re: Dickhead]
    #13498659 - 11/17/10 02:46 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Again, what was the huge problem with Prop 19 please?



Short-sightedness...    I can see a whole slew of problems with Jacks bill as well...


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Re: Prop 19- so what? [Re: ChronicCluster]
    #13498720 - 11/17/10 02:57 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Please elaborate.  Short-sightedness is a subjective term. 

What effect of Prop 19 are people against?


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Re: Prop 19- so what? [Re: Dickhead]
    #13498781 - 11/17/10 03:04 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

From what I remember, It was mostly the medical patients who were convinced that weed becoming legal would somehow illegalize medical consumption...
Also a lot of people didn't like certain aspects of the prop, such as the you can have two ounces on your person, and they wanted true, tax-free legalization.  Which I doubt would ever happen.  It hasn't happened with any other drug.

So more I guess it was people expecting everything to be perfect on the first go around, and who weren't interested in making changes later.

I say short-sighted since I think that they thought that right now we have no tax on it, and no regulations, that when it is legal it should have no regulations.  And the current tax free illegalization is better than taxed legalization.


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