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 tripp23
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 Paradox 
#13427023 - 11/03/10 01:29 AM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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i just thought of the weirdest paradox i have ever thought of.
alright, the speed of light in MPH is 670,616,629mph. say your traveling at 670,616,630MPH. 1 mile an hour faster than the speed of light.
so they say your always looking into the past. It takes time in order for light thats reflecting off of everything in your field of vision, to reach your eyes and to have your brain comprehend that into a picture.
so say your traveling that one mile per hour over the speed of light. what would you see???? complete darkness since your escaping light?? or would everything thats in your field of vision, just completely stand still??
or even more confusing.. say your traveling at the exact same speed of light. wtf would you see?? omg its so confusing!! its a complete paradox..
in order to travel into the past, one would have to completely switch time around backwards i.e... make light travel backwards? this is all hypothetically because apparently.. one can only travel into the future, not the past.. as far as we know now.. omg somebody help lol
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TrollTendencies
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 Re: Paradox [Re: tripp23]
#13427031 - 11/03/10 01:31 AM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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your in the past too because memories form in the present and made in the future
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tripp23
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Quote:
TrollTendencies said:
your in the past too because memories form in the present and made in the future
holy fuck you just confused the shit outta me lol
so your saying.. im made in the past cuz.. my memories are formed in the present and by the time i thought of that, im in the future??
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The_Ghost
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Re: Paradox [Re: tripp23]
#13427043 - 11/03/10 01:35 AM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
tripp23 said:
i just thought of the weirdest paradox i have ever thought of.
alright, the speed of light in MPH is 670,616,629mph. say your traveling at 670,616,630MPH. 1 mile an hour faster than the speed of light.
so they say your always looking into the past. It takes time in order for light thats reflecting off of everything in your field of vision, to reach your eyes and to have your brain comprehend that into a picture.
so say your traveling that one mile per hour over the speed of light. what would you see???? complete darkness since your escaping light?? or would everything thats in your field of vision, just completely stand still??
You wouldn't see anything since the eyes are responsive to photons. You need light to see anything.
Quote:
or even more confusing.. say your traveling at the exact same speed of light. wtf would you see?? omg its so confusing!! its a complete paradox..
You would probably see visual distortions all around as light catches up to you.
Quote:
in order to travel into the past, one would have to completely switch time around backwards i.e... make light travel backwards? this is all hypothetically because apparently.. one can only travel into the future, not the past.. as far as we know now.. omg somebody help lol
How would you make light travel 'backwards'? Whichever direction it travels is always forward.
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The_Ghost
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Re: Paradox [Re: tripp23]
#13427051 - 11/03/10 01:37 AM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
tripp23 said:
Quote:
TrollTendencies said:
your in the past too because memories form in the present and made in the future
holy fuck you just confused the shit outta me lol
so your saying.. im made in the past cuz.. my memories are formed in the present and by the time i thought of that, im in the future??
I think he means that the world you see around you is actually the past and not the present because it takes time for your brain to process sensory information into awareness.
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TrollTendencies
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Re: Paradox [Re: tripp23]
#13427052 - 11/03/10 01:37 AM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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its called stress
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shroommachine
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And I said, I don't care if they lay me off either, because I told, I told Bill that if they move my desk one more time, then, then I'm, I'm quitting, I'm going to quit. And, and I told Don too, because they've moved my desk ...four times already this year and I used to be over by the window and I could see the squirrels, and they were merry, but then, they switched from the Swingline to the Boston stapler, but I kept my Swingline stapler because it didn't bind up as much and I kept the staples for the Swingline stapler and its not okay because if they take my stapler then I'll set the building on fire.
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tripp23
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Quote:
The_Ghost said:
Quote:
tripp23 said:
Quote:
in order to travel into the past, one would have to completely switch time around backwards i.e... make light travel backwards? this is all hypothetically because apparently.. one can only travel into the future, not the past.. as far as we know now.. omg somebody help lol
How would you make light travel 'backwards'? Whichever direction it travels is always forward.
exactly why they say you can only travel into the future. fun to think about right?
thanks for giving me a decent answer lol its so confusing but fun
but i have another example in a way..
gravity slows down time. scientist say.. if you got sucked into a black hole. you would be frozen alive in time but completely alive and aware and conscious n all that. now say that theory is true. what would happen if you added just a little bit more of force of gravity?
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makaveli8x8
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Re: Paradox [Re: tripp23]
#13427123 - 11/03/10 02:06 AM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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so why would traveling faster than light make us travel into the future or even the past in the first place? Isn't light just an object, why would traveling faster than it have any affect on reality and other objects in the universe? I dunno if ive just never thought about it or what
If light is basically "instant", what does instant plus 1 do for us? How do we know light isn't already traveling "plus 1" and we can't tell because of the affect it may have? Now what about the other end, is anything truely standing still? what would happen if we traveled 0 "minus 1"? I know that probly isn't the correct way of saying it but im sure you get what im saying.
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laserpig
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You CAN'T travel faster than the speed of light. There is no paradox, because the condition in which the paradox arises cannot exist.
If you travel AT the speed of light, your journey is literally instantaneous (from your perspective). That's what Einstein's relativity means.
You know the story of the astronaut who travels 90% light speed to Alpha Centauri and back, and even though for him it only takes a few weeks, when he gets back his four year old daughter is suddenly teenager? Well, if he'd done 99% light speed, he would experience just a couple of days of travel. Extend this all the way to 100% light speed, and you can see how it would take zero time.
So to ask what you would see at light speed is a moot point, because there is literally no time in which to see anything.
It's a weird concept, but I'm told it's the truth.
Time does not exist at light speed. But you need maths to prove it.
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 openmind
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Re: Paradox [Re: tripp23]
#13427205 - 11/03/10 02:54 AM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
tripp23 said:
so say your traveling that one mile per hour over the speed of light. what would you see???? complete darkness since your escaping light?? or would everything thats in your field of vision, just completely stand still??
You can't reach the speed of light, let alone go over it...
But sorta along the lines of what you're getting at I think...If you are traveling at 99% the speed of light and pointed a laser beam in front of you the laser will travel away from you at the speed of light from your observational standpoint.
But from someone standing aside and watching, the laser will move at the speed of light and you will be moving at 99%.
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laserpig
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Quote:
openmind said:
You can't reach the speed of light, let alone go over it.
Actually, you can reach it, provided that you have infinite energy.
Which sounds absurd, but we're f*ckin' half-evolved monkeys. What do we know.
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makaveli8x8
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ok what if a person build a machine that can travel 99% the speed of light, and this machine was say...1 or 10 or w/e "miles" long
Then inside this machine was another machine, and then you manage to drive that machine to 99% the speed of light before hitting the haul
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Idiot
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I haven't read through all the responses but this is what I think:
Because light originates from many sources you'll be perceiving the light at a faster rate, if you're looking in the direction you're traveling (like life in fast forward, probably burning your eyes). While if you're looking in the opposite direction you will see absolute darkness, as light can't catch you).
Example; Traveling towards Proxima Centauri (4.2 LY away) at the speed of light you will see all 4.2 years of light but at a faster rate then when you slow down to orbit or view the star it will be back down to normal perception speed.
Think if there is a star that is traveling away from our solar system at a s relative speed faster than light, we wouldn't be able to see that star. Or vice versa a star traveling at a relative speed faster than light towards us we'd see the light at a faster rate, causing a twinkling as we witness massive events on that star at faster speed with less time between their intervals.
If that makes sense.
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Edited by Idiot (11/03/10 03:35 AM)
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destructo_low
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Re: Paradox [Re: tripp23]
#13427267 - 11/03/10 03:36 AM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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I was talking about this in another thread the other day. You would still be seeing whatever you were rushing towards only faster than you were before. Time would not stop or go backwards. It would continue going forwards only slower relative to you.
Here is the other thread.
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the bizzle
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Quote:
so say your traveling that one mile per hour over the speed of light. what would you see???? complete darkness since your escaping light?? or would everything thats in your field of vision, just completely stand still??
have you ever broken through on Salvia?
its neat how Einstein's theories parallel aspects of the experience in unexpected ways
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Quote:
laserpig said:
You CAN'T travel faster than the speed of light. There is no paradox, because the condition in which the paradox arises cannot exist.
you can't accelerate faster than light but if you are already going faster than light you can continue going faster
Tachyon
Quote:
Because a tachyon moves faster than the speed of light, we cannot see it approaching. After a tachyon has passed nearby, we would be able to see two images of it, appearing and departing in opposite directions.
I would also point out that the easiest way to think about this "paradox" is to consider the sound barrier (something we already surpassed)
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The Mad Shroomer
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Quote:
makaveli8x8 said:
ok what if a person build a machine that can travel 99% the speed of light, and this machine was say...1 or 10 or w/e "miles" long
Then inside this machine was another machine, and then you manage to drive that machine to 99% the speed of light before hitting the haul
Time slows down for the second machine, so it doesn't actually reach a higher speed.
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nice1
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Quote:
makaveli8x8 said:
so why would traveling faster than light make us travel into the future or even the past in the first place?
Relativity states that the speed of travel is relative to the speed of time. Faster you go, the slower time becomes.
Space - time is not a linear state.
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Prisoner#1
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Quote:
laserpig said:
You CAN'T travel faster than the speed of light. There is no paradox, because the condition in which the paradox arises cannot exist.
dont be so sure about that, they've discovered that light can travel faster than the speed of light
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DieCommie
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.
Edited by DieCommie (11/13/16 10:13 AM)
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laserpig
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
dont be so sure about that, they've discovered that light can travel faster than the speed of light
Was that the right video? There was nothing in there about light traveling faster than light. Only about a discrepancy between the detection of high- and low-energy wavelengths. From the few sentences describing it, it sounds more likely that the different wavelengths took slightly different paths through space, one longer, one shorter.
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Greenspades
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You'll just see the light that's getting to your eyes at that particular moment. It's not that hard to understand. Whatever light your eyes ran into while traveling. It might look "distorted" but if you always were traveling 1 mph faster than the speed of light you'd get used to it.
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Salomon
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Re: Paradox [Re: tripp23]
#13429611 - 11/03/10 03:41 PM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
tripp23 said:
i just thought of the weirdest paradox i have ever thought of.
alright, the speed of light in MPH is 670,616,629mph. say your traveling at 670,616,630MPH. 1 mile an hour faster than the speed of light.
so they say your always looking into the past. It takes time in order for light thats reflecting off of everything in your field of vision, to reach your eyes and to have your brain comprehend that into a picture.
so say your traveling that one mile per hour over the speed of light. what would you see???? complete darkness since your escaping light?? or would everything thats in your field of vision, just completely stand still??
or even more confusing.. say your traveling at the exact same speed of light. wtf would you see?? omg its so confusing!! its a complete paradox..
in order to travel into the past, one would have to completely switch time around backwards i.e... make light travel backwards? this is all hypothetically because apparently.. one can only travel into the future, not the past.. as far as we know now.. omg somebody help lol
what if you travel faster than the speed of light whilst pointing a flashlight in the other direction?
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Idiot
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That's awesome, I was looking into some of MITs recorded lectures on physics but it was not what I expected. I realize physics in an advanced form of math, but I figured they'd use more hypothetical situations to help describe formulas rather than just diving into the formulas. I guess the prerequisites for a physics class at MIT would be more advanced that what I know, making physics that much more difficult for me.
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PreparationH
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Re: Paradox [Re: Idiot]
#13430495 - 11/03/10 06:30 PM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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does the universe expand faster than the speed of light..? It has to right?
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CosmicFool
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yes
infact there is a light horizon which is basically the farthest distance we can see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_horizon#The_Universe_versus_the_observable_universe
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34120060
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Thats not going faster than 'c' though. Light has an apparent speed through a medium that is slower than 'c', but it never goes faster than 'c'. (It doesnt really go slower either, but that is a technicality when traveling through a medium.
I have a couple of thoughts, first off - you cant go faster than the speed of light or even reach the speed of light. Its common for students to wonder what happens if you go faster than 'c' but its hard for them to understand thats a nonsensical premise from which you can draw no conclusion. It would be like me asking, what if I am at the north pole and then I travel north more, what happens? Thats a nonsensical situation you cannot conclude anything from it. Same with traveling faster than speed of light. Time doesn't go backwards, the equation breaks down and gives you imaginary time which has no physical meaning.
As for what you see... If you are traveling at 99% the speed of light, what would light look like to you? It would still be traveling at the speed of light into your eyes. It always does, no matter how fast you go. This is a decidedly non-intuitive characteristic of our universe. Speeds dont add like you think they would. If you are traveling in a car at 60mph and throw a baseball at 10mph you would intuitively think that the ball will travel at 70mph relative to the ground. This is not the case though, it would actually be a bit slower than 70mph. Speeds dont add in the way we initially think they do.
This leads to what makaveli8x8 proposed... Consider traveling 99% of 'c' and then within your spaceship launch a machine at .99% of 'c'. Your intuitive thought would be that the machine is now going at .99c + .99c = 1.98c - but that is incorrect. Velocities dont add that way. .99c + .99c = 0.999949498c - still less than the speed of light.
The velocity addition formula you expect is,
But they really add like this,
Its very weird that velocities add this way. Its certainly one of the tripped out results of how our universe works that got me interested in physics.
 /end thread
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I AM SWIM
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This is not a post.
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CosmicFool
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Quote:
I AM SWIM said:
This is not a post.
the only actual paradox in this thread
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DieCommie
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Re: Paradox [Re: Idiot]
#13430615 - 11/03/10 06:58 PM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Idiot said:
That's awesome, I was looking into some of MITs recorded lectures on physics but it was not what I expected. I realize physics in an advanced form of math, but I figured they'd use more hypothetical situations to help describe formulas rather than just diving into the formulas. I guess the prerequisites for a physics class at MIT would be more advanced that what I know, making physics that much more difficult for me.
Im not sure I would call it an advanced form of math. Maybe its better described as a science that uses advanced maths. Normally when they just dive into the math, that because the equations speak for themselves. Math describes some things better than words, so to convey the point math is used instead of words. Of course this means that you have to speak the language of math to get the message they are conveying.
I assume the prereq for intro physics at MIT is the same as anywhere else, Calc I. Its really hard to do any physics at all without calculus - and unfortunately calculus is a scary word to alot of people (for good reason).
edit - that said, special relativity is a very math-light area of physics. You only need some algebra skills to 'do' most of it. But you really need to twist your brain to conceptualize even a small portion of it.
Edited by DieCommie (11/03/10 06:59 PM)
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collie man
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When i drop acid i become faster then time.
Ponder that one.
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iamu
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can anyone here actually define time
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CosmicFool
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Re: Paradox [Re: iamu]
#13431036 - 11/03/10 08:17 PM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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time is what a clock measures
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destructo_low
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What the fuck is the code for the clapping graemlin? :insert here:
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DieCommie
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Quote:
collie man said:
When i drop acid i become faster then time.
Ponder that one.
pfft... BFD. Ive been manipulating time with my mind + LSD since I was 15.
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DieCommie
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Re: Paradox [Re: iamu]
#13431206 - 11/03/10 09:03 PM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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.
Edited by DieCommie (11/11/16 09:49 AM)
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collie man
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
iamu said:
can anyone here actually define time
In physics there are what appear to me to be two different interpretations of time. The most common one is the interpretation from relativity where time is regarded as a dimension similar to the spatial dimensions. So you have three coordinates for your x,y and z position and then another one, t, for your time position. This description beautifully describes many phenomenon we see but I feel is a little lacking in the intuitive 'what is time' notion.
The other interpretation is the thermodynamic interpretation. Here the 'arrow of time' or the direction that time goes in is defined by disorder (entropy). The law of thermodynamics states that disorder always increases overall. This has been interpreted to define the direction that time goes in. So we can consider time to be the process of going from a state of order to a state of disorder.
Now bring in a little statistics... ordered states are less probable, in general, and disordered states are more probable. If you have a handful of pennies and throw them on the ground is less probable that they will all land heads up (ordered), its more probable that they will land in a combination of heads and tails (disordered). Consider a tornado blows trough your room - there is a small chance that it will clean everything (ordered) but there is a much bigger chance that it will tear the room up (disordered). Extend this to cosmology and the universe and consider the most ordered and least probable state of the universe, that is the small dense hot universe just after the big bang. This state is highly ordered and highly unlikely. Time then starts by having that ordered state evolve into a less ordered more probable state where space expands and matter clumps together. This progression continues, and because of statistics after every interaction you are more likely to be in a more probable state. That means at the end of time the universe is in its most probable state and it has nowhere else to evolve into, this is the heat death of the universe.
So to bring this back to us, consider an hourglass. You start it in its least probable state - with this sand up. And it progresses to its most probable state with its sand down. This is the progression of time. A pendulum clock is the same way, the weight in an up position is less probable than the down position. And as the universe evolves the weight progresses to its most probable position - down. All clocks have this feature, all things that seem to happen at regular intervals have this feature. In this sense time is the progression from improbable states to more probable states.
Of course fundamentally 'what is _____, really?' is a question of philosophy and not physics or science. Much of my blabbing here is just an interpretation of the fundamental science.
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tripp23
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Thats not going faster than 'c' though. Light has an apparent speed through a medium that is slower than 'c', but it never goes faster than 'c'. (It doesnt really go slower either, but that is a technicality when traveling through a medium.
I have a couple of thoughts, first off - you cant go faster than the speed of light or even reach the speed of light. Its common for students to wonder what happens if you go faster than 'c' but its hard for them to understand thats a nonsensical premise from which you can draw no conclusion. It would be like me asking, what if I am at the north pole and then I travel north more, what happens? Thats a nonsensical situation you cannot conclude anything from it. Same with traveling faster than speed of light. Time doesn't go backwards, the equation breaks down and gives you imaginary time which has no physical meaning.
As for what you see... If you are traveling at 99% the speed of light, what would light look like to you? It would still be traveling at the speed of light into your eyes. It always does, no matter how fast you go. This is a decidedly non-intuitive characteristic of our universe. Speeds dont add like you think they would. If you are traveling in a car at 60mph and throw a baseball at 10mph you would intuitively think that the ball will travel at 70mph relative to the ground. This is not the case though, it would actually be a bit slower than 70mph. Speeds dont add in the way we initially think they do.
This leads to what makaveli8x8 proposed... Consider traveling 99% of 'c' and then within your spaceship launch a machine at .99% of 'c'. Your intuitive thought would be that the machine is now going at .99c + .99c = 1.98c - but that is incorrect. Velocities dont add that way. .99c + .99c = 0.999949498c - still less than the speed of light.
The velocity addition formula you expect is,
But they really add like this,
Its very weird that velocities add this way. Its certainly one of the tripped out results of how our universe works that got me interested in physics.
im sorry but i have to claim the part where you say.. " first off - you cant go faster than the speed of light or even reach the speed of light." What if i fly myself into a black hole. I would apparently being traveling faster than the speed of light because even light cant excape the pull of it.
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Paradox [Re: tripp23]
#13431361 - 11/03/10 09:47 PM (13 years, 5 months ago) |
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I dont think so. You go into a black hole, you do so slower than the speed of light.
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the bizzle
the joke that no one spoke
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MY HAIR IS A BIRD
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iamu
Sall Growman
Registered: 04/12/09
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call it what you want, but time isnt real. things change, not over time. people are born they eat and grow, they dont grow because of time they grow because its what happens when you feed yourself and other shit. time is an illusion like a lot of other things. fuck measuring anything
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realfuzzhead
Registered: 03/03/10
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Quote:
shroommachine said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Critique_of_Pure_Reason
jesus christ dude you understand this stuff? I thought i was a smart guy and this is old ass philosophy but the lost me at "a priori"
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PreparationH
apply daily
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Alright so the universe expands faster than the speed of light right...???
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Right. The visible universe is about 100 billion light years across, but is only 13.7 billion years old.
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iamu
Sall Growman
Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 2,412
Loc: Ireland
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light runs in place just like this equation
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