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InvisibleveggieM

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,538
Whether Prop 19 Passes or Not, Legalization is Now Mainstream
    #13422125 - 11/02/10 06:43 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Whether Prop 19 Passes or Not, Legalization is Now Mainstream
November 1, 2010 - AlterNet

But win or lose this time, a page in history has turned -- drug policy reform is an issue who time has come, and time is on our side

California's Proposition 19, the marijuana legalization "Tax and Regulate" initiative, has been a roller coaster ride for drug policy reformers. In May polls showed Prop 19 in the lead, but not by much and with support under 50%. For the next four months, the numbers did something we didn't expect; opposition to the measure steadily decreased. One pollster interviewed in early October for my organization's newsletter, commented, "If I was in Las Vegas and I was a betting man, I'd bet on [Prop 19] to win, but I'd only bet money I could afford to lose." A number of funders took that bet last month, adding steam to what had been a mostly low-profile campaign.

The last few weeks have seen support for Prop 19 fall in most polls, a phenomenon common to controversial ballot measures. Voters might support the general concept of an initiative -- west coast support for marijuana legalization polled at 58% last week -- but some inevitably develop doubts about a given initiative at a given time, especially as opponents raise questions, and when uncertain tend pull "no" lever. If Prop 19 is defeated, that will be the reason, not opposition in principle to legalization. But defeat is not inevitable. Last-minute donations funding an ad blitz, and extensive voter turnout efforts, could make the difference, and the campaign has pointed out that polling conducted by computer rather than live interviewers still shows the initiative ahead. One late poll, while showing the initiative behind, also found voters who don't usually turn out for midterm elections coming out for Prop 19. If the marijuana vote can change turnout demographics tomorrow, that could make the difference too.

Win or lose, though, in a sense Prop 19 has already won. A partial listing of mainstream organizations that have publicly called for marijuana legalization for the first time by , shows that legalization can no longer credibly be dismissed as from the fringe:

    * California NAACP
    * LULAC of California
    * Latino Voters League
    * National Black Police Association
    * National Latino Officers Association
    * SEIU of California
    * UFCW Western States Council
    * ILWU Northern California District Council
    * California Young Democrats

Those are only some of the larger ones. Current and former politicians in California have endorsed Prop 19, from the local level up through Congress. Founders of Facebook, Gmail and PayPal made financial contributions to the campaign. Widespread positive coverage including editorials in the likes of Newsweek and the New York Times makes the point too.

We'll find out on Tuesday what California voters decide about Prop 19 this year. But win or lose this time, a page in history has turned -- drug policy reform is an issue who time has come, and time is on our side.

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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: Whether Prop 19 Passes or Not, Legalization is Now Mainstream [Re: veggie]
    #13422260 - 11/02/10 08:11 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I'm optimistic.  The live interview polls may be misleading because people are afraid to tell other actual people that they support the legalization of a drug due to the social stigma attached to it.  I'm cautious about who I tell, too, and I doubt I'd tell a complete stranger that I'm for drug legalization.  Let's hope I'm not the only one.  But that is why, I believe, the computer polls still show it ahead. 

Young voter turnout will be the key here though, so any of you reading this from california, you better get your assess to the polls.  And get your like-minded friends there, too.


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.

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InvisibleGerman Kahuna
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Registered: 10/31/08
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Re: Whether Prop 19 Passes or Not, Legalization is Now Mainstream [Re: pothead_bob]
    #13422297 - 11/02/10 08:32 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I doubt I'd tell a complete stranger that I'm for drug legalization.



But it is exactly what we should do. When I was young I used to think that getting high was something I and a few others did in secret. Today I know that frickin everybody gets high all the time. It's about time we came forth with some arguments and made a point out of why we think prohibition is seriously wrong.
Drugs are going to be stigmatized as long as people believe they are something only failure-at-life stoners do.
Imagine a room full of people where everyone thinks everyone else is against marijuana legalization and so when asked everyone agrees that is a bad thing, such as to not out themselves as pot smokers. Then everyone goes home and lights up in secret by themselves thinking they are the only one that lights up, when they could have just all been toking together. That's why I am quite open about my support of the legalization of really any drug when the subject comes up and I know I have some very good arguments to support my point, too. I believe in being an advocate of what I think is the right thing to do.


--------------------
"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".

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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: Whether Prop 19 Passes or Not, Legalization is Now Mainstream [Re: German Kahuna]
    #13422312 - 11/02/10 08:38 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

In an ideal society, yes, you are right.  But we don't live in an ideal society.  If people that I work with/for knew that I smoked, it could really limit my career.  If they knew i supported drug legalization, they would probably wonder why (i.e. drugs are bad, so only people that do them would want them legal).  I like to smoke now and again, but not enough to be a martyr over it.  If, on the other hand, I had the opportunity to cast my vote in secrecy over its legality - such as the opportunity californians have today - you can bet i'd be there casting my vote.  i'm hoping most people in california are like me because if they are that means these polls that show prop 19 losing don't mean shit and that it has a good chance of passing today.


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.

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InvisibleGreen_T
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Posts: 4,042
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Re: Whether Prop 19 Passes or Not, Legalization is Now Mainstream [Re: pothead_bob]
    #13422343 - 11/02/10 08:51 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Argh, I won't know if prop 19 passes until 7 or 8 am GMT on Wednesday! I am going to have to check the Shroomery news service first thing in the morning!

Back on topic, I think mainstream legalization can only go so far before it reaches a plateau. This is because supporting legalization of cannabis usually implies one smokes cannabis and thus breaks the law, thereby stigmatizing people in certain professions.

What needs to happen is the de-coupling of the cannabis legalization movement from cannabis users. It is kind of like prostitution - whenever I tell people I am for the legalization of prostitution, the first thing they ask is, "why, so you can use prostitutes?". I then have to explain that prohibition does not make it go away, and therefore you have not just the problems of prostitution, but the problems of prohibition as well (driving it underground, which allows people to be more easily exploited).

One way you can help this decoupling is by showing people that burnt-out hippies are not the only people who want cannabis legalized. This assumption needs to be broken, and it is good to see it happening now.

On another note, I bet a lot of people will come "out of the closet" of cannabis legalization. I'm sure there are plenty of doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc who support legalization but wouldn't be caught dead saying it publicly.


--------------------

"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson

Legalize Meth | Drug War Victims

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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: Whether Prop 19 Passes or Not, Legalization is Now Mainstream [Re: Green_T]
    #13422366 - 11/02/10 08:59 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

On another note, I bet a lot of people will come "out of the closet" of cannabis legalization. I'm sure there are plenty of doctors, lawyers, teachers, etc who support legalization but wouldn't be caught dead saying it publicly.




Exactly.  If this passes, it would statistically prove that the majority of people support marijuana legalization.  It is unlikely that 49% of californians toke up regularly, so I'd feel more comfortable, along with many others, telling people that I support legalization without immediately  being branded a pothead.  Even thought that's what my alias says I am.


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.

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InvisibleGerman Kahuna
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Registered: 10/31/08
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Re: Whether Prop 19 Passes or Not, Legalization is Now Mainstream [Re: pothead_bob]
    #13422374 - 11/02/10 09:02 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

If people that I work with/for knew that I smoked, it could really limit my career.



Oh, totally. That is a valid exception. Despite being a failure-at-life stoner and tripper I have a well paying job that supports my my wife and kids and pays the mortgage for the house and I can't afford to lose it over my boss not condoning me being a failure-at-life stoner and tripper. But it is pretty much the only exception I make.

But it is exactly what the stigmatization does. In my company every event is really a disguised drinking fest where the management and regular employees get drunk together, but nobody would ever dare to light up. There's something wrong with that in my book.


--------------------
"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".

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Offlineadamantasaurus
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Re: Whether Prop 19 Passes or Not, Legalization is Now Mainstream [Re: German Kahuna]
    #13422662 - 11/02/10 10:24 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I really hope prop 19 passes I would be the happiest man on the planet!!

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OfflineOdd_Nonposter
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Re: Whether Prop 19 Passes or Not, Legalization is Now Mainstream [Re: adamantasaurus]
    #13423908 - 11/02/10 02:38 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I put no confidence in opinion polls whatsoever. In fact, I think that some of them are fabircated. :tinfoil: It is extremely hard to get a representative sample of the population when doing a poll. The US census can only do it by enforcing laws against not participating.

How are you going to administer your polls? Phone? Mail? There's sample problems with those.

Mail surveys involve people filling out a questionnaire and sending it back. I don't know about you, but I don't like tests, especially when I don't have to do them (even though there is no wrong answer). Unless I really, really care about what it's asking, I'm going to toss it in the trash the first chance I get.

Phone surveys are getting less and less representative. Not everyone has a listed number anymore, especially young folks--we all have cell phones.
Even if a pollster does manage to get a hold of somebody, the ones who just simply don't care are going to hang up. Don't think that robopolls  don't have their sample problems--I'm far more inclined to listen to a real person rather than a recorded voice.


The only survey that matters is the one made in the polling booth.

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InvisibleGerman Kahuna
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Re: Whether Prop 19 Passes or Not, Legalization is Now Mainstream [Re: Odd_Nonposter]
    #13423942 - 11/02/10 02:45 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Not to forget that they poll like a thousand people to be representative of a couple of million voters. 0.x percent isn't very reliable empirically.


--------------------
"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".

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Offlinepothead_bob
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Re: Whether Prop 19 Passes or Not, Legalization is Now Mainstream [Re: Odd_Nonposter]
    #13424072 - 11/02/10 03:17 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The US census can only do it by enforcing laws against not participating.




What laws?


--------------------
No knowledge can be certain, if it is not based
upon mathematics or upon some other knowledge
which is itself based upon the mathematical
sciences.
  -Leonardo da Vinci (1425-1519)

Speak well of your enemies.  After all, you made them.

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OfflineOdd_Nonposter
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Re: Whether Prop 19 Passes or Not, Legalization is Now Mainstream [Re: pothead_bob]
    #13424863 - 11/02/10 05:41 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

pothead_bob said:
Quote:

The US census can only do it by enforcing laws against not participating.




What laws?




It's a hundred-dollar fine to refuse to answer, but I bet that it's rarely enforced. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/13/usc_sec_13_00000221----000-.html

Quote:


"Title 13, Chapter 7, Subchapter 2, § 221"

(a) Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II [ the decennial population count ], IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100.



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OfflineMickalopagus
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Re: Whether Prop 19 Passes or Not, Legalization is Now Mainstream [Re: Odd_Nonposter]
    #13424882 - 11/02/10 05:45 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

wow... that is news to me


--------------------
notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... "

ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."

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