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veggie

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,538
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Backers of legalizing marijuana in California are counting on support from young voters
#13420907 - 11/01/10 10:21 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm so disappointed in young people ...
Backers of legalizing marijuana in California are counting on support from young voters November 1, 2010 - Los Angeles Times
Recent polls have shown support for Proposition 19 slipping. Backers of the measure that would legalize marijuana in California are counting on young voters for success.
But that could be a problem. On the eve of Tuesday’s election, a noon rally on the UC Berkeley campus -– just three BART stops north of the Yes on 19 headquarters -- was a decidedly low-key affair.
A dozen demonstrators waved signs in support of the measure. A young blonde in tie-dye tossed a “Yes on 19” frisbee in the autumn sunshine. A half-dozen journalists looked on. And scores of students wandered by, unmoved.
“Every single person here has to make a commitment,” begged Kat Murti, Bay Area regional director for the Yes campaign, her multicolored dreadlocks swinging. “For the last 73 years, cannabis has been an illegal substance.... Everyone here knows someone who uses cannabis!”
Vote, she said, so jobs will be created. Vote, she said, so cops can spend their time chasing murderers and rapists instead of nonviolent smokers who enjoy a little weed. Vote, she said, just vote.
Across Sproul Plaza, Zainab Hossainzadeh was unimpressed by both the issue and the demonstration. Sitting at the Muslim Student Assn. table and reading Studs Terkel for class, the 19-year-old sophomore said she does vote but hadn’t thought much about how she’d cast her ballot this time.
She watched the pot proponents saunter up to the microphone and beg for votes. She listened to speakers’ claims: “Cannabis seeds are a great food, high in Omega 3 fatty acids!” She shook her head at the sign-waving rally and smiled.
“It is very small,” she said. “Especially for Berkeley.”
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nachohippie
asshole



Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2,623
Loc: right around the corner
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Re: Backers of legalizing marijuana in California are counting on support from young voters [Re: veggie]
#13420943 - 11/01/10 10:31 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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All the students at Cal are already smoking legal pot they don't really care even tho I don't agree with the law as it is written it saddens me that kids aren't thinking about this political season more:(
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send guns, money ,lawyers, and drugs its been a long night everything i post is a lie im a pathological liar
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eLShaMukO



Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 1,694
Loc: far away
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Re: Backers of legalizing marijuana in California are counting on support from young voters [Re: nachohippie]
#13421217 - 11/01/10 11:31 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
All the students at Cal are already smoking legal pot they don't really care
so true , getting a card is so easy .
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fapjack
Title



Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 16,574
Loc: Central New Jersey
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Backers of legalizing marijuana in California are counting on support from young voters [Re: veggie]
#13421248 - 11/01/10 11:39 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well to be fair, potheads usually aren't the most motivated people. I'm really excited and nervous at the same time about this measure.
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nachohippie
asshole



Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2,623
Loc: right around the corner
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Re: Backers of legalizing marijuana in California are counting on support from young voters [Re: eLShaMukO]
#13421258 - 11/01/10 11:41 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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$45 Dr. visit and you are legal cali rocks now let the rest of the nation follow the path we have left you to the goodtimes
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send guns, money ,lawyers, and drugs its been a long night everything i post is a lie im a pathological liar
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,392
Last seen: 3 days, 6 hours
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Re: Backers of legalizing marijuana in California are counting on support from young voters [Re: nachohippie]
#13421880 - 11/02/10 03:51 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
nachohippie said: $45 Dr. visit and you are legal cali rocks now let the rest of the nation follow the path we have left you to the goodtimes 
Abusing the medical marijuana laws when you are not sick is not really the coolest thing to be doing.
Quote:
nachohippie said: even tho I don't agree with the law as it is written it saddens me that kids aren't thinking about this political season more:(
Why not? Do you really want it to continue to be a felony to grow even one plant?
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Humility
Working on it



Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 6,745
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Backers of legalizing marijuana in California are counting on support from young voters [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#13422269 - 11/02/10 08:18 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Abusing the medical marijuana laws when you are not sick is not really the coolest thing to be doing.
Are you serious Alan? Could you please elaborate on your position here, I'm a bit confused.
Do you oppose the recreational use of cannabis?
Do you oppose the recreational use of cannabis under the guise of smoking for medical reasons?
I don't understand, and didn't think I'd hear something like that from you.
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Green_T


Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 4,042
Loc: UK
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Re: Backers of legalizing marijuana in California are counting on support from young voters [Re: Humility]
#13422384 - 11/02/10 09:10 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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^ I'm not Alan, but here is my viewpoint on why exploiting medicinal cannabis for recreational use is selfish and unethical:
In California, people who are perfectly healthy take advantage of the situation. What they are essentially doing is abusing a law which allows cannabis for really sick people who need cannabis, for their own recreational use. Everybody knows this is going on.
Therefore, when AIDS, cancer, and MS patients try to pass a medicinal cannabis law in other states, it is really easy for prohibitionists to say, "this is merely a front for legalization. Not all the people who use it medically are sick - they will just turn around and sell their medical cannabis on the street, or use it recreationally. We don't want that happening in our state". All they have to do is point to California where "anybody can get a card and smoke cannabis."
So, if medical cannabis is equated with recreational use, then people who are against recreational use won't let medical bills pass. That is why New Jersey is so restrictive even though they have medicinal cannabis. Basically, by taking the advantage in California, people are preventing sick people in other states from getting their medicine.
Also, If you "use cannabis under the guise of smoking for medical reasons", It weakens the argument that there is a medicinal use for cannabis. It makes it seem everyone who is using it for medical reasons are actually using it for recreation, including really sick people.
Again, the more medical use = recreational use, the less it appears medical use = medical use, and the less sick people can say it is medicine and get bills passed.
I am 100% for medicinal cannabis. I am 100% for legalization. I am 0% for gaming the system if it screws over sick people elsewhere.
I bet most of the people who smoke but are against prop 19 would change their tune if a bill were passed limiting medical cannabis to AIDS, cancer, MS, and other terminal illnesses. We should all be pushing for medicinal use in other states, not so healthy people can use it, but so sick people will have one of the planet's greatest medicines. We need to push for recreational use as a separate issue, and that is what prop 19 is doing.
Those are my reasons. Alan probably has others.
 Don't give assholes ammunition for their argument that marijuana is not medicine, but merely a way for people to use it for recreational purposes.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson Legalize Meth | Drug War Victims
Edited by Green_T (11/02/10 09:30 AM)
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caradoc
Stranger


Registered: 09/25/10
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Re: Backers of legalizing marijuana in California are counting on support from young voters *DELETED* [Re: Green_T]
#13422437 - 11/02/10 09:31 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by caradocReason for deletion: .
-------------------- 1) I can't imagine how P could possibly be false 2) Therefore P
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Green_T


Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 4,042
Loc: UK
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Re: Backers of legalizing marijuana in California are counting on support from young voters [Re: caradoc]
#13422487 - 11/02/10 09:44 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Abuse may not "kill the movement", but it may prevent other states from adopting medical laws. At the very least, it may make them adopt more strict laws. For example, a state which doesn't currently have medicinal cannabis can either adopt the "California law" or the "New Jersey Law".
Also, I recently read an article about the medicinal marijuana situation in Montana. A bill was recently passed where "land could not be used in a way which was conflicts with federal law". This was done as a direct response to fuck over the medicinal marijuana users, and as a result medicinal marijuana is now banned:
Quote:
GREAT FALLS Request to lift medical marijuana ban rejected GREAT FALLS, Mont. (AP) A district judge has rejected a request for an injunction by three men to prevent the city of Great Falls from enforcing a ban on medical marijuana businesses that took effect July 1.
The men, with health problems, contend the ban prevents them from getting their legal medication.
But District Judge Thomas McKittrick ruled earlier this month that it would be difficult for the men to show the city lacks the power to enact the ordinance.
McKittrick also wrote that the men could obtain medical marijuana outside the city.
The Great Falls Tribune reports that McKittrick ruled the plaintiffs also failed to show the city was enforcing the ordinance.
The city previously passed a ban on land use that conflicts with federal, state or local laws, which the plaintiffs say effectively bans medical marijuana.
-http://www.kxnet.com/custom404.asp?404;http://www.kxnet.com/News/Local/657824.asp
The implication of this is that medicinal cannabis is a right which can be taken away. California could just as easily pass bills which make it more difficult to exploit medicinal cannabis for recreational use.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson Legalize Meth | Drug War Victims
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veggie

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,538
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Re: Backers of legalizing marijuana in California are counting on support from young voters [Re: Green_T]
#13422738 - 11/02/10 10:43 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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I agree with Green_T. It is wrong to encourage or condone obtaining medical marijuana fraudulently. Besides being unethical, it just provides more ammunition to states who point a finger at California as an example of a system 'out of control', which of course also sets back legalizing efforts. It appears as addiction type behavior, people lying to get their drugs. It also reminds me of able-bodied people who park in handicapped designated spaces just because they have a 'legal' sticker. (Maybe a poor analogy, but I see this frequently and it irks me to no end knowing a disabled person is being kept from shopping or whatever)
Cannabis is a unique plant. It is a proven safe medicinal herb but also has the side effect in most people that just makes them feel good. So, I naturally support legalizing for recreational purposes also. Besides all the reasons for legality, which I won't repeat here, it is just the right thing to do, for people who use it and for the people who don't.
Marijuana legalization is inevitable. There are several separate paths leading to that end result. As with many safe medications they become available over the counter without a prescription. In many areas marijuana while illegal is no more serious than j-walking and not enforced. In time marijuana will become a non-issue. In the meantime it is best to not delay that by abusing the system and drawing scrutiny.
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fapjack
Title



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Loc: Central New Jersey
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Re: Backers of legalizing marijuana in California are counting on support from young voters [Re: veggie]
#13422939 - 11/02/10 11:31 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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It is no more fraudulent than if you take tylenol because you are hung over, or a cough drop because you are bored. The dr.s are recommending it for almost any ailment. If marijuana ever gets rescheduled btw, California is going to look a lot different.
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Plok
Life is fractal


Registered: 09/08/04
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Loc: Los Angeles
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Re: Backers of legalizing marijuana in California are counting on support from young voters [Re: fapjack]
#13423180 - 11/02/10 12:19 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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I voted. So did most of my friends. I've spent the last 8 months telling everyone to go out and vote. I've done just about everything I can. I have a feeling it won't pass, but the genie is out of the bag, and if it doesn't pass it will be back next year, and the next, and the next, until it passes.
-------------------- Just say NO to the War on Drugs.
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veggie

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,538
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Re: Backers of legalizing marijuana in California are counting on support from young voters [Re: fapjack]
#13423206 - 11/02/10 12:22 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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>The dr.s are recommending it for almost any ailment.<
That's true. It's not just the patients, it's doctors also that abuse the system. Many have set up an assembly line type scenario where medical recommendations are mass produced without even an examination. And I believe that cannabis should be available to any adult without a prescription. But that is not how the system is set up at this time. There is a perception that medical marijuana should be available to sick people.
I understand your tylenol/cough drop example as canabis is a relatively benign substance, certainly safer than tylenol. But we are not there yet in Cali. and certainly not in the rest of the country. Some states will only consider medical cannabis as an end of life option. Crazy. So it's not quite the same thing. Imagine a scenario where people would have to pay $100 for a doc's recommendation for a cough drop and then pay another $100 for a small supply. We have become used to that with pot. That's the reason for reform to end that situation with cannabis.
That is also the reason that some dealers/dispensaries are against legalization. They want to continue to get the higher black market prices. From that point of view I can't really blame them, but it is selfish and greedy. Like alcohol prohibition, greedy speakeasy owners selling bathtub gin were against legal booze, but other ones could see the bigger picture and easily made the transition to legal bars and nightclubs.
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veggie

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,538
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Re: Backers of legalizing marijuana in California are counting on support from young voters [Re: Plok]
#13423219 - 11/02/10 12:24 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Good for you, Plok!
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Mickalopagus
living in perverty


Registered: 07/06/04
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Re: Backers of legalizing marijuana in California are counting on support from young voters [Re: veggie]
#13423726 - 11/02/10 02:03 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Agreed with Veggie, Doc, Alan; healthy people abusing a system set up to help the sick negatively impacts general (majority) perceptions that medical marijuana is a legitimate industry. I don't blame pot smokers for taking advantage of the current system, but cant help be a little ticked at the ones who vote to keep the drug illegal so they can continue to take advantage at the expense of everyone else.
-------------------- notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... " ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."
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ShroomProphet
Grateful Dead to The Core


Registered: 08/04/09
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Re: Backers of legalizing marijuana in California are counting on support from young voters [Re: Mickalopagus]
#13424127 - 11/02/10 03:31 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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There are a lot of ailments that marijuana is good for helping. I am against these people who say they have an ailment or problems then after they get a card run out in public saying "oh well its so easy to get a card anyone can say there rear end hurts and get a card, I did it was too easy!!!. I bet if the Doctors seen them saying this and took back there card they'd sing a different tune" if you have a card for an ailment consider yourself lucky and dont bite the hand that feeds you!! there are tons of us in other states that want medical MJ and aren't even close. if we make a mockery of the new freedoms we just might lose them soon enough!
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nachohippie
asshole



Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2,623
Loc: right around the corner
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Re: Backers of legalizing marijuana in California are counting on support from young voters [Re: veggie]
#13425462 - 11/02/10 08:35 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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The doctors are following the law not abusing the system WTF???
Who is to say what ailment pot will help but a doctor ?
My doctor has been reviewed by the state physicians association and been found to be in complete compliance with the laws of the state and he has been writing me recommendations since 1999 . Just because a doctor is willing to review your medical files and do a examination and finds in his/her personal opinion that a patient needs pot for WHATEVER reason is up to the doctor not you.
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send guns, money ,lawyers, and drugs its been a long night everything i post is a lie im a pathological liar
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eLShaMukO



Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 1,694
Loc: far away
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Re: Backers of legalizing marijuana in California are counting on support from young voters [Re: nachohippie]
#13425712 - 11/02/10 09:12 PM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
is up to the doctor not you.
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Humility
Working on it


Registered: 10/07/08
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Re: Backers of legalizing marijuana in California are counting on support from young voters [Re: eLShaMukO]
#13427306 - 11/03/10 04:21 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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It seems to me that those of you who oppose the use of cannabis for "medical" purposes have decided to do so based on several points. The most significant, I think, is that you feel that using cannabis for purposes that can be called "recreational", using it to feel "good" when you don't necessarily feel "bad" is not right to do, or at least not right to do within the guidelines of prop 215 and SB420.
In addition, I think the next major point is that you're concerned that people using cannabis for those purposes serve to delegitimize the effort, thus lengthening the overall time it will take for cannabis to be legalized all over the country.
I can understand where you're coming from on both those points. I'm curious as to which of you smoke cannabis, and how regularly.
I smoke cannabis most days, and I have been doing that for years now, since highschool really, and I'm in my 20s at this point. It's hard to make an accurate list of everything that cannabis affects, but its use has drastically affected my life and lifestyle.
Overall, I am greatly pleased with the life I lead being a cannabis smoker, and I honestly believe that it is a fundamental part of my strong constitution I've gone from being a fat kid to a skinny kid to a strong man who rarely gets sick due to a very healthy diet that didn't once exist. Cannabis helps me to eat, and eat regularly.
When I do get sick, which is once or twice a year, cannabis helps me immensely with nausea. Since I've been a kid, I've had very bad nauseous fits that I've gone to doctors for. I've been prescribed cancer meds; $200 Zofran pills (insurance) in order to curb my nausea before.
When I take mescaline, which is relatively regularly, monthly or so; I often have bouts with nausea that can mirror some of the worst fits I've ever had.
Everyone recognizes nausea as a common medical complaint, but what about people who have psychological issues who use cannabis to help them to be less violent, or less aggressive; more understanding and compassionate and empathetic?
You posters, of all people should know the myriad uses of cannabis to the extent that it can be classified as a literal, near-panacea. When one also takes into account its toxicity, and thus the relative security with which a doctor can prescribe cannabis without having to worry about adverse affects, the answer, I think, becomes clear:
Cannabis is what people use it for. It is an incredibly useful plant in every way that matters to human beings; all other areas discounted however, medical cannabis is still so useful a substance, with so many effects that are relevant to so many people on a legitimate basis that EVERY doctor in California, INCLUDING PEDIATRICIANS (we'll get to that some years down the road) could benefit from being able to prescribe it, though some would choose to do so sparingly and others not at all.
As another poster said; it is unlikely that cannabis will be viewed as an illegitimate substance due to some people using it "medically" for recreation. The same scenario occurs with prescription pain pills. I would be willing to bet that with national legalization of pain pills by prescription of a doctor there are far more incidents of people "abusing" prescription pain pills than are people abusing cannabis in California under the current laws. Are pain pills viewed as illegitimate medicine for this reason?
The current laws allow people who are motivated to do so to smoke and to possess large quantities of cannabis, as well as grow cannabis if they have come to know the effects of cannabis and believe that they benefit their life. If that wasn't enough for you, each person that does this has to go find a doctor who agrees with them and pay a fee. What more can you ask for, isn't it regulated enough already? Cannabis, like all other plants, should be legal for use, possession, trading or cultivation by anyone in a peaceful society, and there shouldn't be any Rx requirements or fees to be paid.
Come on guys, it's just like tomatoes.
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Green_T


Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 4,042
Loc: UK
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Re: Backers of legalizing marijuana in California are counting on support from young voters [Re: Humility]
#13427542 - 11/03/10 07:09 AM (13 years, 6 months ago) |
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^ That was an excellent post 
I smoke cannabis maybe once every few months. I have an illness that I used to regularly take medication for, but I've stopped and cannabis helps me with it. I have absolutely NO problem with anyone obtaining a card if cannabis genuinely helps them. I do think for purely recreational use, it is taking the piss a little. For example, if you have a medical card just so you can smoke at festivals, I think that is making a mockery of the system.
Now, if you do decide to fake an illness so you can buy cannabis legally, I understand why you would want to take advantage of a loophole so you don't break the law. If you smoke in private, and never carry much on you, nobody is the wiser and it really doesn't make a difference in the grand scheme of things.
However, lets say you are sitting around a drum circle on the beach, and sharing joints and passing around a bong with 10 people. Cops roll up, and you whip out the medical cards, and start laughing about the fact that they can't bust you for it. You've now left an idea in the cops' minds that medical marijuana is just an excuse for people to smoke recreationally. The more people think that, the harder it becomes to get medicinal cannabis passed in other states, or if it does there will be absurd restrictions on it. As another example, lets say you are at a festival and doing the same thing around parents with their kids. They ask you to stop, and you say, "no. it's my right as a patient, bro". What impression will they have of medicinal cannabis, and those who use it?
I can see why you would suggest that abusing a medication does not affect how people perceive it in a medical context. Lets look at oxycontin - it is abused, and is still seen as a medication. But the difference is people dont suggest people with broken bones are "just trying to get high", while this is suggested all the time for people who want to use cannabis. Also, I'm willing to bet that if you could get oxycontin prescriptions for "any sort of ailment", then people would be against it's use - and say people who get prescribed it are just trying to get high.
To sum up: If cannabis helps you, get a medical card and tout its benefits and how it helps you (if it genuinely does). If you want to use a card just so you can smoke legally, at least do it in private and be respectful.
It frustrates me how cannabis cannot be legally used. It really winds me up that people cannot use it even if it helps them with serious illnesses - that is simply unjust.
I totally agree with you how it is just like tomatoes. THC is probably even safer than lycopene! To me medical use is legalization for people who might benefit from the plant. That's not enough for me: I want to see legalization for anyone who wants to use the plant, benefit or not. We all share a vision of being able to walk down to the local food co-op or 7-11 and buying high quality cannabis, or growing some in the back yard and selling it at a fair price. Don't be complacent just because you can do this now.
Like I said, I smoke only a few times a year and I live overseas. I shouldn't have to see a doctor and pay a fee to smoke cannabis.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson Legalize Meth | Drug War Victims
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