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Invisiblenachohippie
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Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2,623
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Potheads say ‘No to Prop 19’
    #13419229 - 11/01/10 05:11 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

By Keelan Taylor - Smith

Foghorn Staff

Published: Tuesday, November 2, 2010

Updated: Monday, November 1, 2010 15:11


Many outspoken marijuana users have stated that they are against California's Proposition 19, saying that while the proposition sounds like a dream come true, in reality it is a huge step backward in the movement to legalize marijuana.

Marijuana users have stated their stance is pro-legalization but anti-Proposition 19. Their view is that Proposition 19 will not legalize marijuana but in fact place more restrictions upon it.

Most media state that the proposition will fully legalize marijuana, though in fact, the proposition will put restrictions where there are none currently, such as reversing freedoms users now enjoy under Proposition 215 and paving the way for the current marijuana industry to be corporatized, eliminating small-time marijuana farmers.

Denis Peron, author of Proposition 215, denounced the new proposition saying it would be "thinly-veiled prohibition."

Many users developed their negative stance after reading and completely analyzing Proposition 19. Under Proposition 19, marijuana would not be fully legalized; people would only be allowed to carry up to one ounce and it would have to have been bought from a legal marijuana dispensary.

Many people don't know that, thanks to marijuana already being decriminalized, the penalty for carrying an ounce now is only a mere citation and a $100 fine at maximum. Under Proposition 19, that small punitive measure would go away, but the proposition adds other measures for minors and those who give marijuana to them that are not already in place.

Under the proposition, a person who gives marijuana of any amount to a minor would face up to six months in jail and a $1000 fine. The current penalty for a gift of marijuana one ounce or less is a $100 fine.

Also under Proposition 19, users would not be able to smoke in the presence of minors, not even in the privacy of their own homes. Under Proposition 215, users are able to smoke in their homes or any place where smoking is allowed as long as they have their prescription, regardless of minors being present. Proposition 19 would take this freedom away.

Another problem users have with Proposition 19 are the restrictions it would place on the current industry of marijuana that Proposition 215 enables. Under Proposition 19, the only people who would be allowed to sell marijuana are people who obtain an expensive and difficult-to-get license.

Current small-time marijuana growers and sellers who make a decent profit under Proposition 215 would no longer be able to sell. Marijuana users worry that, under Proposition 19, the small-time growers would be pushed out and replaced with big time corporations, effectively destroying the industry the growers have built over the years.

Users claim that Proposition 19 is not the right way to legalize marijuana. They believe that people should hold out and wait for a better law to be written, one that doesn't have all the problems that Proposition 19 creates.

Another plan – the California Hemp and Health Initiative – is already seeking signatures for inclusion on the 2012 ballot. This new initiative fixes many of the problems that Proposition 19 creates and was even approved by the late Jack Herer, the "father of the legalization movement."

Users worry that if Proposition 19 passes, this new initiative won't stand a chance in 2012 because the big corporations formed after Proposition 19 will not allow it to pass.

Proposition 19 is not the only road to legalization available – it is simply the first. Dragonfly De La Luz, a pro-legalization blogger, wrote in an article: "This is not our only chance to vote yes to legalization, but it may be our only chance to vote no to the corporatization of cannabis."


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send guns, money ,lawyers, and drugs its been a long night

everything i post is a lie im a pathological liar

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Invisiblebait_
AllSpice
I'm a teapot

Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 2,292
Loc: This Cannot Be Happening Flag
Re: Potheads say ‘No to Prop 19’ [Re: nachohippie]
    #13419268 - 11/01/10 05:17 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

link?

how can legalizing pot be a step back in... legalizing pot?

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Invisiblebigmike7104
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Registered: 07/12/10
Posts: 1,395
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Re: Potheads say ‘No to Prop 19’ [Re: nachohippie]
    #13419289 - 11/01/10 05:19 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I thought because of the decriminalization bill it would just be a 100 dollar fine if caught smoking in the presence of minors even with prop 19 passed. So they would act in accordance with each other. Also it's not true you can't smoke in your own home, just not where minors can see you.


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Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind
Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must
Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines

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InvisibleSuperD
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Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 6,648
Loc: The bridgesii bridge
Re: Potheads say ‘No to Prop 19’ [Re: bigmike7104] * 4
    #13419310 - 11/01/10 05:23 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Who cares what the potheads think?  Sane, rational people will be voting YES on 19 tomorrow. :thumbup:


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:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

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Offlinecnna4
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Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 1
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Potheads say ‘No to Prop 19’ [Re: nachohippie]
    #13419375 - 11/01/10 05:36 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah, people have overlooked the fact that many pot smokers do not want Proposition 19.  Check out this site: http://no-on19.com (Marijuana smokers Against Prop 19)

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InvisibleBlueIndian
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Re: Potheads say ‘No to Prop 19’ [Re: SuperD]
    #13419409 - 11/01/10 05:47 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

.

Edited by BlueIndian (11/01/10 05:50 PM)

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InvisibleSuperD
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Re: Potheads say ‘No to Prop 19’ [Re: cnna4] * 2
    #13419419 - 11/01/10 05:49 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

We haven't overlooked that fact, we've simply dismissed it because the No on 19 stoners are not being very reasonable.  You can't have your cake and eat it too when it comes to such controversial issues as the legalization of marijuana.  If this bill weren't as restrictive it would not stand a chance of passing with a majority vote.  Once it is passed however, we can immediately begin to work on amending and shaping the law the way we feel it should be to better suit everyone's needs.  We can't do that unless it passes though.  YES on 19.


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:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

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InvisibleveggieM

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,538
Re: Potheads say ‘No to Prop 19’ [Re: SuperD] * 1
    #13419423 - 11/01/10 05:50 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

>Sane, rational people will be voting YES on 19 tomorrow.<

The best Anti-Prop19 website is right here: Oppose Prop 19.
It presents a very compelling argument for not voting for Prop 19 as opposed to the lies and propoganda being spread by stoners against legalization. I am a sane rational person and am very close to opposing the measure after reading this site. Check it out.

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Invisibleopenmind
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Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 13,990
Re: Potheads say ‘No to Prop 19’ [Re: cnna4]
    #13419433 - 11/01/10 05:53 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

bigmike7104 said:
I thought because of the decriminalization bill it would just be a 100 dollar fine if caught smoking in the presence of minors even with prop 19 passed. So they would act in accordance with each other. Also it's not true you can't smoke in your own home, just not where minors can see you.





That decrim bill only regards possession, and has nothing to do with smoking in the presence of minors.


As far as smoking in your own home around minors, it's written very vaguely :shrug:, doesn't simply say "Must be out of sight"










Quote:

cnna4 said:
Yeah, people have overlooked the fact that many pot smokers do not want Proposition 19....






Indeed....I know many pot-smokers that are voting NO on 19. Most smokers are voting no.





:stoner:




.


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InvisibleSuperD
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Re: Potheads say ‘No to Prop 19’ [Re: BlueIndian] * 1
    #13419434 - 11/01/10 05:53 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

BlueIndian, believe me I've read Prop 19 up, down, backwards, and forwards.  I'm fully aware of its shortcomings.  I'm also fully aware that once it passes, we can FIX all the things we see wrong with it.  We will also have a much easier time passing future bills both in California and in other states where marijuana is not yet legal.  We need to show the American public that the sky won't fall just because people can purchase cannabis without the guise of needing it for an illness.


--------------------
:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

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Invisiblerezen
Time Traveler
Male

Registered: 05/21/10
Posts: 1,031
Loc: Flag
Re: Potheads say ‘No to Prop 19’ [Re: veggie]
    #13419440 - 11/01/10 05:55 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

It would be a shame for Californians not to pass this!! This is only the next logical step and it is crucial for California to set this precedent within the Country.

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InvisibleSuperD
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Re: Potheads say ‘No to Prop 19’ [Re: veggie]
    #13419446 - 11/01/10 05:55 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

veggie said:
>Sane, rational people will be voting YES on 19 tomorrow.<

The best Anti-Prop19 website is right here: Oppose Prop 19.
It presents a very compelling argument for not voting for Prop 19 as opposed to the lies and propoganda being spread by stoners against legalization. I am a sane rational person and am very close to opposing the measure after reading this site. Check it out.




:lol: I saw this just the other day.  I have to admit it makes slightly more sense than the arguments presented forth by the stoners against 19.


--------------------
:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

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Offlineh4x354x0r
Hack Man
Male

Registered: 05/24/10
Posts: 22
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Potheads say ‘No to Prop 19’ [Re: cnna4] * 1
    #13419447 - 11/01/10 05:55 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Sorry, I just don't buy the "This isn't good enough, we must hold out" argument in this case. It's like insisting on a game-winning grand-slam home run, when just a single base hit would at least drive in a run and put your team up a point.

Sure, at this point, there's not much practical change in possession and consumption. But there is a significant change in the approach to production and distribution. The production and distribution is where all the violence and problems occur. Bringing that out into the open and making it a legitimate business - however imperfect - is a step in the right direction. My first concern is getting rid of the violence, not being able to blow pot smoke in everyone's face.

Then there's the "Pressure Cooker" argument for this current proposition. If you just pop the lid off a working pressure cooker (i.e. the "perfect" legalization legislation), you're going to get a violent explosion. And then everyone is going to blame the act of taking the lid off, for what is actually caused by the pressure that has been built up inside the cooker. And... everyone is going to want to put the lid back on, and leave it there.

If you let the pressure out slowly, there will be far fewer problems. People won't notice anything different, except perhaps the succulent smell of what's inside the cooker. Once the pressure is down, you can take the lid completely off, and enjoy a good meal.

If you want to go farther, why insist on going the distance in a single leap? Why not take this step first, then introduce more legislation next year, take another step, and eventually get there without the risk of falling short on a single huge jump?

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OfflineSWEDEN
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Registered: 10/25/04
Posts: 2,577
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Re: Potheads say ‘No to Prop 19’ [Re: veggie]
    #13419455 - 11/01/10 05:57 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

You scared me for a second, I thought you were serious. Then I clicked the link. Are the guys who made that site doing some tongue-in-cheek or is it the real deal?

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Offlinexxking0mmxx
explorer


Registered: 08/16/09
Posts: 48
Loc: USA Flag
Last seen: 11 years, 5 months
Re: Potheads say ‘No to Prop 19’ [Re: nachohippie]
    #13419473 - 11/01/10 06:00 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

prop 19 would go along with all other bills already in place.
it wont overrule (or whatever) prop 215 or the other bill for the $100
all the bills will work together
well thats what richard lee of norml said anyway


--------------------
"Nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced.
It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this."
~~ Albert Einstein, "My First Impression of the USA" (1921).

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Invisiblenachohippie
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Registered: 09/19/09
Posts: 2,623
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Re: Potheads say ‘No to Prop 19’ [Re: xxking0mmxx]
    #13419505 - 11/01/10 06:06 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Richard lee is not with normal he is a profiteer from Oakland who wants a monopoly on the production of marijuana so he wrote this bill to take over the pot trade in California


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send guns, money ,lawyers, and drugs its been a long night

everything i post is a lie im a pathological liar

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Offline2859558484
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Re: Potheads say ‘No to Prop 19’ [Re: SuperD]
    #13419510 - 11/01/10 06:06 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

shit will be tite


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Invisiblenachohippie
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Registered: 09/19/09
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Re: Potheads say ‘No to Prop 19’ [Re: 2859558484]
    #13419546 - 11/01/10 06:10 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Cali already is tight Texas must suck ass If I lived there I would want this passed but if you read the law as written and lived in Cali you too would vote no


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send guns, money ,lawyers, and drugs its been a long night

everything i post is a lie im a pathological liar

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Invisibleopenmind
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Re: Potheads say ‘No to Prop 19’ [Re: SuperD]
    #13419549 - 11/01/10 06:11 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SuperD said:
We haven't overlooked that fact, we've simply dismissed it because the No on 19 stoners are not being very reasonable.  You can't have your cake and eat it too when it comes to such controversial issues as the legalization of marijuana. If this bill weren't as restrictive it would not stand a chance of passing with a majority vote.  Once it is passed however, we can immediately begin to work on amending and shaping the law the way we feel it should be to better suit everyone's needs.  We can't do that unless it passes though.  YES on 19.






True true...





I think a lot of people over here are just happy with the way things are for now. They don't want their beloved plant having all of these laws and controls on it.


Even though it is still "illegal", unless you have an absurd amount of weed or you're up to some sorta trouble, cops are not going to fuck with you, at the worse they tell you to dump it out....Though true, if the cop truly wants to be a dick he can still get you.





And sure it's taking an advantage of the system, but if you get your medical card (which we all know is very simple) you have no worries about growing, smoking in public, possession, etc...



So I can most definitely see both sides of the argument.





Guess we'll find out tomorrow :smirk:





:stoner:


.


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Invisibleopenmind
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Re: Potheads say ‘No to Prop 19’ [Re: nachohippie]
    #13419589 - 11/01/10 06:15 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

nachohippie said:
Richard lee is not with normal he is a profiteer from Oakland who wants a monopoly on the production of marijuana so he wrote this bill to take over the pot trade in California




This...





Quote:

nachohippie said:
Cali already is tight Texas must suck ass If I lived there I would want this passed but if you read the law as written and lived in Cali you too would vote no






and this ^^^ ....







:stoner:




.


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