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Offlineadasafa
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Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 124
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
Christ Looks Into Futurity
    #1341001 - 02/27/03 04:35 PM (14 years, 1 day ago)

My friend believes in God and the Bible. I forget which specific division of "Bible following Group" he belongs to.

He claimed that God was all powerful and knew everything . He even knew what events would take place in the future. I asked him ( my friend) that if God knew the future, he would surely know what he himself would do. If he knew, for instance, that 5 minutes from now he would (you can insert any action or decision) shake his head, would he, when 5 minutes would pass, be forced to shake his head? Or could he change his mind? If so, wouldn't he know that he would change his mind?

I (and my friend who is only 17) have limited knowledge of the Bible and could not answer the question. I hope someone could help me and answer it.

Thanks


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OfflineGrav
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Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: Christ Looks Into Futurity [Re: adasafa]
    #1341012 - 02/27/03 04:44 PM (14 years, 1 day ago)

everytime god thinks too much like that a planet explodes, he is a whore like that Me 4:20


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Anonymous

Re: Christ Looks Into Futurity [Re: adasafa]
    #1341031 - 02/27/03 04:59 PM (14 years, 1 day ago)

*sigh*

This is a common error for those that argue against the omniscience of God and the freewill of the Believer make.

If God knows, how does that change a thing? It doesn't.

We have freewill and if God exists He knows what we will do.

There is no dilemma.

This isn't a great analogy but look at it this way. If you have a friend that always defends himself when he is attacked and never runs away from a fight and somebody starts to attack him, you "know" with a fair degree of certitude, that your friend will defend himself.

Did your knowledge of your friend impinge on his freewill?

No.

Same difference.


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Offlineadasafa
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Registered: 06/19/02
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Re: Christ Looks Into Futurity [Re: ]
    #1341072 - 02/27/03 05:25 PM (14 years, 1 day ago)

I agree with what you said. God knowing what I would do does not restrict my free will.

I don't think I made myself clear. I was not asking about the relationship between the Future, God, and the Believer. I was asking about the relationship between the Future, God, and God himself.

If God knows that God will shake his head five minutes from now, when the 5 minutes are up, will God have to shake his head because God knew 5 minutes earlier that God would do it?

Sorry for the constant repetition of the word God but I thought this way my question would be clear.

I checked BibleRevelations.com. There are statements such as "Christ reads the future as a book", "Christ Looks Down the Ages Into Futurity". I don't see why God himself would not know what God will do in the future, whatever that may be for God.

Or does God only see certain events of the future?


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Anonymous

Re: Christ Looks Into Futurity [Re: adasafa]
    #1341121 - 02/27/03 05:41 PM (14 years, 1 day ago)

Oh ok, I misunderstood what you were asking.

I don't know about the other.

I do know that according to the Bible Christ gave up certain attributes to become a man. He certainly wasn't omnipresent nor was He omniscient.

As far as God the Father is concerned I don't think the Bible addresses that directly.

Interesting question.

Cheers,


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InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
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Re: Christ Looks Into Futurity [Re: adasafa]
    #1341478 - 02/27/03 09:04 PM (14 years, 1 day ago)

thats been a big question for me lately. but i think its something like, if you know what will happen you change as it comes and whatever that may be may be but god can do what god wants? why is god restricted to "his" own vision if "he" can see the future, "he" can make what he will. and why would he bother? thats like the question could god create a rock that god could not lift if god created it? its a recycling question. and who knows what that really implies, maybe thats a gap in our understanding of logic or all of understanding for that matter.


--------------------
What?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Christ Looks Into Futurity [Re: adasafa]
    #1343481 - 02/28/03 06:16 PM (14 years, 21 hours ago)

It is not only presumptuous to posit anything about the Divine Nature, it is also futile. God is not an object among objects, or a being among beings. God is Being, or Very Existence Itself, and if anything, WE are objects or ideas in God.

All that finite humans can Know about God, is what God has chosen for us to Know. We can infer the Presence of the Great Architect by an in-depth study of nature, with the human body being perhaps the most incredibly complex example. Therefore, inference or reason in conjunction with our 5 senses is the most basic way.

Intuition is another mode of apprehending God's Being. Mystical Experience is yet another way. As to the operation or 'Divine Economia' within the Godhead, only God Knows Himself in that manner - as only you can Know yourself apart from anyone else's Knowledge of you. The Attributes of God are all Transcendental - Eternity, Infinity, Zero dimensionality (well, at least the 'Divine Singularity' that He manifested to initiate the Big Bang), Omniscience, Omnipresence, Omnipotence.

Jesus the Christ remains a Mystery, theologically speaking. In some way, not described in rational terms, Time and Eternity interfaced - Being (God) and humanity - Infinitude and finitude. The Godhead emptied Itself of some of the Transcendental attributes in order to manifest as a human being, yet that human being is a 'Door' to the Transcendental Godhead.

There is both 'predestination' and 'free-will' in Biblical theology. The reality of both is a paradox, a perpetual chicken-or-the-egg, fish-biting-fish-tail-yin-yang concept. The operation of both principles are able to be perceived from our human perspective. Sometimes a psychedelic perspective can give insight into this paradox. The consequences to our lives means treading "a razor's edge" between fatalism and action. On the one hand, it seems like everything is determined, so why do anything but meditate in a cave. On the other hand we must act. Not to stop the hand of a child-killer is to kill a child.

Let Compassion be your Guide.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineLiquidSmoke
My title's cooler than yours DBK

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Re: Christ Looks Into Futurity [Re: adasafa]
    #1358830 - 03/08/03 06:44 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I don't think it's an issue of God knowing/determining the future.

When they mean God "knows all" it's simply saying God knows the different paths which would take place through the change of course of the present time.

If you plant a seed, it will become a flower. If you cut it, it will in turn, rot up and die.


--------------------
"Shmokin' weed, Shmokin' wizz, doin' coke, drinkin' beers.  Drinkin' beers beers beers, rollin' fatties, smokin' blunts.  Who smokes tha blunts?  We smoke the blunts" - Jay and Silent Bob strike Back


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Offlinesoylent_green
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Re: Christ Looks Into Futurity [Re: LiquidSmoke]
    #1358890 - 03/08/03 07:15 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

or you could dry it...and make poarey! (i can't spell)


--------------------
What fun is it in Nirvana while other beings are suffering?


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OfflineaYs
I am the light.

Registered: 02/28/03
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Re: Christ Looks Into Futurity [Re: soylent_green]
    #1360188 - 03/09/03 12:12 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

but see... you're wrong about god knowing everything we do. OK, if god knew EVERYTHING that was gonna happen in your life BEFORE you were even created. How can you have free will? and your example about your friend defending himself... if you knew he was gonna defend himself in his first conflict and third conflict, and run away on his second conflict and that was what was gonna happen NO MATTER what, then he doesn't have free will. If he doesn't know that he's gonna fight 1st and 3rd and run on the 2nd and YOU do, then that's not freewill. his actions are predetermined. See if he decided to not fight in the 1st and 3rd conflict and fight in the 2nd, then your forseen events were incorrect. BUT, god cannot be incorrect, so you have no freewill. it's bullshit anyway, there is no god, religion is for the weak


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OfflineMurex
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Registered: 07/28/02
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Re: Christ Looks Into Futurity [Re: aYs]
    #1360270 - 03/09/03 12:57 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Fate?

If God would know everything that will happen, then wouldn't he have a pretty boring existance?


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflineCrayzzieShroomz
the MilkMAnne...

Registered: 02/28/03
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Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: Christ Looks Into Futurity [Re: ]
    #1361956 - 03/10/03 06:19 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

*sigh*

This is a common error for those that argue against the omniscience of God and the freewill of the Believer make.

If God knows, how does that change a thing?  It doesn't.

We have freewill and if God exists He knows what we will do.

There is no dilemma.

This isn't a great analogy but look at it this way.  If you have a friend that always defends himself when he is attacked and never runs away from a fight and somebody starts to attack him, you "know" with a fair degree of certitude, that your friend will defend himself.

Did your knowledge of your friend impinge on his freewill?

No.

Same difference. 





Beautiful......simply beauuuuutiful.  Couldn't have said it better myself... :grin: 


--------------------
You live and You SHROOM......


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OfflineSombie
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Registered: 12/07/02
Posts: 2,643
Loc: Stafford, Virginia
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
Re: Christ Looks Into Futurity [Re: aYs]
    #1362017 - 03/10/03 06:57 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

How do you figure? Just because I know someone will do something, dosent mean that person isn't free to decided not to.

My friends KNOW I will smoke weed this week (I do almost everyday), do I still have freewill? of course.


--------------------
"America... just a nation of two hundred million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable." - Hunter S Thompson

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OfflineKemist
Soul ComponentsPrototype IssueM11983MF50 (x_x)

Registered: 05/29/02
Posts: 160
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Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
Re: Christ Looks Into Futurity [Re: Sombie]
    #1367768 - 03/12/03 04:29 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

god is you,us, the universe ...

plain and simple

the bible doesn't even explain "god" rather it describes the current super human ego, its flaws and strengths .....

ever think of the romans and thier gods ... flawable gods who had incredible strentghs but could not resist thier temptations?

but thats just me and i dont know anything for sure nor will i pretend to


--------------------
Rafa (x_X)

fuck a sig




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