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InvisibleveggieM

Registered: 07/25/04
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Prop 19 Opponents Veer Off Into Paranoia
    #13400078 - 10/28/10 10:44 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Prop 19 Opponents Veer Off Into Paranoia
October 27, 2010 - HuffingtonPost.com

The opposition to California's marijuana legalization measure is veering off into paranoid and delusional terrain in the final days of the campaign, echoing some of the more bizarre anti-pot themes more common in the early part of the 20th century when the film "Reefer Madness" worked to persuade Americans of the dangers of the drug.

The no campaign's website greets visitors with a photograph of a wrecked car and an overturned school bus, presumably filled by children killed by a stoned driver.

"On average, a drunk driver kills someone every 45 minutes," warns the campaign's website. "Recreational marijuana use in fatal crashes will increase if Prop. 19 passes. It will be legal for a driver to get high right before taking the wheel. It will also be legal for passengers to smoke pot as they drive on the freeway or in your neighborhood."

A new Chamber of Commerce radio ad warns that in a dystopian, post-legalization world a Californian could be maimed in a car accident caused by a stoned driver and then treated in the hospital by nurses high off their gourds -- all of it perfectly legal if the proposition passes, according to opponents. (The Service Employees International Union, the state's largest union of nurses, is one of the measure's biggest backers.)

Or, warns the ad, California businesses could lose millions in federal money for breaking drug laws and employees could come to work blazed with impunity.

The strategy reflects desperation on the part of opponents, according to an internal Chamber memo obtained by HuffPost. "I have experienced a great deal of difficulty in getting members of the business community to understand that the marijuana initiative on the November ballot (Proposition 19) is more about making it illegal for employers to have a marijuana free workplace, than it is about removing criminal penalties for possession," California Chamber CEO Allan Zaremberg wrote in an memo to Chamber members.

"The Chamber has just completed an extensive survey to determine the likelihood of prop 19 being passed by the voters and what arguments are most persuasive. First of all, without an opposition media campaign there is a very strong likelihood that it will pass. Most voters have made up their mind on whether marijuana possession should be illegal and there seems to be a majority of likely voters who no longer think i[t] should carry criminal penalties. On the other hand, though, when voters are told that employers would not be able to control marijuana use at work, proposition 19 is opposed by a majority of voters," he added, going on to say that the Chamber spent its own money on the survey because the campaign is strapped for cash.

The proposition, which had been leading in the polls, is now trailing. Zaremberg didn't immediately return a call requesting comment.

Of course, driving while impaired is and will remain illegal. Coming to work high would violate workplace policies except perhaps in Silicon Valley or the NBA.

"Imagine coming out of surgery, and the nurse caring for you was high, or having to work harder on your job to make up for a coworker who shows up high on pot," says the Chamber ad. "It could happen in California if Proposition 19 passes."

The ad goes on. "Employees would be allowed to come to work high, and employers would be unable to punish an employee for being high until after a workplace accident," it cautions.

"It's just stupid to suggest people could legally show up to work high," said Michael Whitney, a spokesman for the Just Say Now campaign, which is backing the measure. "It's no more of an issue than someone showing up at work drunk, and would be handled the same way."

The language of the initiative is written to prevent employers from firing workers for smoking pot in their free time. If the proposition passes, according to the California Legislative Analyst's Office, "employers would retain existing rights to address consumption of marijuana that impairs an employee's job performance."

The ad is just as misleading when it comes to the charge that it would be legal to drive while high. The LAO concluded that "the measure would not change existing laws that prohibit driving under the influence of drugs or that prohibit possessing marijuana on the grounds of elementary, middle, and high schools."

The latest survey has Proposition 19 behind in the polls.

The Chamber's opposition to the measure is counterproductive to its overall job creation mission. "I thought the Chamber was supposed to be all about creating jobs and helping small businesses. If so, they should be supporting Prop 19, which will create thousands of jobs and stimulate California's ailing economy," said Tom Angell, a spokesman for the Yes on 19 campaign.

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OfflineScruffy404
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Re: Prop 19 Opponents Veer Off Into Paranoia [Re: veggie]
    #13400127 - 10/28/10 10:55 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The Chamber's opposition to the measure is counterproductive to its overall job creation mission. "I thought the Chamber was supposed to be all about creating jobs and helping small businesses. If so, they should be supporting Prop 19, which will create thousands of jobs and stimulate California's ailing economy," said Tom Angell, a spokesman for the Yes on 19 campaign.




haha yeah right Create jobs??? HELP PEOPLE?? Yeah right that's on none of those cocksuckers agenda all they want is the money...Money ...money money they don't want to  help anyone and there only against it because they know how much bullshit will be reveled (not that it already has) but people will take a new approach next time (I believe) in putting there trust with these idiots again.

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Offlinegarfixas
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Re: Prop 19 Opponents Veer Off Into Paranoia [Re: Scruffy404]
    #13400272 - 10/28/10 11:37 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

In my opinion, a lot of the current problems with illegal marijuana and even legal marijuana could be solved if we had a better way to test for it. Punish people if they are high while at work or driving high. Don't fire them because they got high a few weeks ago. If we could actually test to see if a person was high at that exact moment then there would be far fewer problems. Imagine if alcohol was like that.
"Sorry Bob, we have to let you go."
"Why?"
"Seems that you had been drinking two weeks ago."


--------------------
"We are the facilitators of our own creative evolution." - Bill Hicks

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Offlinedoeboy99
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Re: Prop 19 Opponents Veer Off Into Paranoia [Re: garfixas]
    #13400302 - 10/28/10 11:42 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

accidents are a part of life in general.  What is not is having tens of thousands murdered in the name of the drug war.  Having large ghettos that do nothing but promote gangs and the violence that goes with them which is of course supported by drug profits.  Take away the profits from the cartels and gangs n they have no more money to buy guns and do their thing.  We need a system that can recognize an addict and offer treatment to them.  A lot of hopelessly addicted people want to quit and our society would rather see them in jail than rehabbed and contributing to society in a meaningful way with something like a job.

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OfflineScruffy404
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Re: Prop 19 Opponents Veer Off Into Paranoia [Re: garfixas]
    #13400320 - 10/28/10 11:45 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

garfixas said:
In my opinion, a lot of the current problems with illegal marijuana and even legal marijuana could be solved if we had a better way to test for it. Punish people if they are high while at work or driving high. Don't fire them because they got high a few weeks ago. If we could actually test to see if a person was high at that exact moment then there would be far fewer problems. Imagine if alcohol was like that.
"Sorry Bob, we have to let you go."
"Why?"
"Seems that you had been drinking two weeks ago."




There no kind of testing that exists like that if im correct.
Its not like testing for alcohol its much different.

I don't think there gonna be able to find a way to see what exact time you where high with the specific date of time...Thus people who are allowed to smoke medical marijuana should do so at work just with any other prescribed pill...people pop there Valium and Oxycontin at work all the fucking time 24/7 if they think weed is any worse or will cause any more problems?? They are sadly mistaken ...and ignorant.

Quote:

doeboy99 said:
accidents are a part of life in general.  What is not is having tens of thousands murdered in the name of the drug war.  Having large ghettos that do nothing but promote gangs and the violence that goes with them which is of course supported by drug profits.  Take away the profits from the cartels and gangs n they have no more money to buy guns and do their thing.  We need a system that can recognize an addict and offer treatment to them.  A lot of hopelessly addicted people want to quit and our society would rather see them in jail than rehabbed and contributing to society in a meaningful way with something like a job.




The way our systems are now is that everyone's a addict and should be taking FDA -Approved medicine because it's the right medicine.
Cannabis makes up to much profit not only for drug lords and gang's but also our governments and law enforcement agency's don't think for a second they don't see any of those "$$$" day in and day out money go's to all there hands one more then the other...and some having there hands restrained behind there back heading off to jail and some wielding a firearm protecting what is left.

Edited by Scruffy404 (10/28/10 11:51 AM)

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Offlinegarfixas
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Re: Prop 19 Opponents Veer Off Into Paranoia [Re: Scruffy404]
    #13400353 - 10/28/10 11:54 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Scruffy404 said:
Quote:

garfixas said:
In my opinion, a lot of the current problems with illegal marijuana and even legal marijuana could be solved if we had a better way to test for it. Punish people if they are high while at work or driving high. Don't fire them because they got high a few weeks ago. If we could actually test to see if a person was high at that exact moment then there would be far fewer problems. Imagine if alcohol was like that.
"Sorry Bob, we have to let you go."
"Why?"
"Seems that you had been drinking two weeks ago."




There no kind of testing that exists like that if im correct.
Its not like testing for alcohol its much different.

I don't think there gonna be able to find a way to see what exact time you where high with the specific date of time...Thus people who are allowed to smoke medical marijuana should do so at work just with any other prescribed pill...people pop there Valium and Oxycontin at work all the fucking time 24/7 if they think weed is any worse or will cause any more problems?? They are sadly mistaken ...and ignorant.





I agree with you about how they should be allowed to if they have a prescription, but they need to find a way to conduct a better drug test. I know that they currently can't tell if you are high at this exact moment but so many years ago they couldn't tell what you had taken at all. They found a way. If this becomes a legal thing then you shouldn't have to not smoke because your job says so. You shouldn't operate heavy machinery and drink either and that is why you can't drink at work or before it. So what if I smoked however many weeks ago. Prove I drove heavy machinery while I was high not that I was high somewhere in the last month.

Edit: Meant to say they can't tell if you are high now.


--------------------
"We are the facilitators of our own creative evolution." - Bill Hicks

Edited by garfixas (10/28/10 12:02 PM)

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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: Prop 19 Opponents Veer Off Into Paranoia [Re: garfixas]
    #13400665 - 10/28/10 12:41 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

of course its paranoid and delusional.. but facts have never mattered much in politics..especially not wrt marijuana...

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OfflineI AM SWIM
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Re: Prop 19 Opponents Veer Off Into Paranoia [Re: Annapurna1]
    #13400721 - 10/28/10 12:48 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

prop 19 is gonna win anyway, they are just paranoid of the inevitable.

:tinfoil: :paranoid: :lol: :paranoid: :tinfoil:


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OfflineI AM SWIM
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Re: Prop 19 Opponents Veer Off Into Paranoia [Re: I AM SWIM]
    #13400869 - 10/28/10 01:11 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

"Imagine coming out of surgery, and the nurse caring for you was high, or having to work harder on your job to make up for a coworker who shows up high on pot," says the Chamber ad. "It could happen in California if Proposition 19 passes."


what about

"Imagine coming out of surgery, and the nurse caring for you was drunk, or having to work harder on your job to make up for a coworker who shows up drunk on whiskey," says the Chamber ad. "It could happen....."


derp derp derp



oh i like the getting high and driving too

when there have already been studies that suggest driving while high makes you a safer driver.


DOPE DRIVERS SAFE: STUDY

A study funded by the British government has concluded that regular marijuana users drive more safely under the influence of cannabis.

The study of 15 users, conducted by Britain's Transport Research Laboratory, found that the mellowing effects of marijuana made drivers more cautious and less likely to drive dangerously.  While marijuana did effect drivers, it was less dangerous than driving while fatigued or drunk.

Regular cannabis users were supplied with "Grade A" marijuana from the U.S.  for the study.  They took four weeks of tests on driving simulators to gauge their reaction time.


http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v00.n1206.a04.html



plus marijuana can make one not fall victim to the road-rage that occurs when either being drunk or sober.


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OfflineYoushouldknowabc
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Re: Prop 19 Opponents Veer Off Into Paranoia [Re: I AM SWIM]
    #13400904 - 10/28/10 01:17 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Where is the pothead Representative at these meetings?! Every other pothead knows about how it would help the economy, pay for a lot of shit, help out people, etc.

The bigger medical companies will still find a way to make their money out of this. Imagine replacing all the pain medications with weed.  :uhoh:

Guess who's going to be losing money, and guess who's going to get helped? the companies that make billions start losing their huge profits, and the people start living better, having new jobs opened up, etc. Makes sense to me. If weed was legal, there would be so many other uses for it too. u dont always have to smoke it. :facepalm3:

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Offlineal32us
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Re: Prop 19 Opponents Veer Off Into Paranoia [Re: Youshouldknowabc]
    #13401634 - 10/28/10 03:34 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Honestly opponents have a few good points..

""Proposition 19 could cost our K–12 schools as much as $9.4 billion in lost federal funding", according to public school superintendent John Snavely, Ed.D., because the schools wouldn't be able to comply with federal government grant requirements.[61]"

"Employers in California that bid for public contracts and grants that are ultimately funded by the federal government would no longer be eligible for those contracts and grants if Proposition 19 passes because Proposition 19 would prevent them from being able to "effectively enforce the drug-free workplace requirements outlined by the federal government". - (this would be a way for the federal government to strike down California. Bastards.)

But then there are some STUPID STUPID STUPID points..

"Prop 19 would make it more difficult for police to perform warrantless searches".



Honestly, there are downfalls.. There is a chain reaction for everything. In the long run, if they push Marijuana and hemp, as a U.S. grown CROP.. Everything will work out. But w.e, the opponents are pessimistic bitches and seem to believe the course we are currently on is an effective one. Wooo the United States is doing soooo well! Thank you for leading us, oh cowardice ones! My family, appreciates it all.


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: Prop 19 Opponents Veer Off Into Paranoia [Re: al32us]
    #13402762 - 10/28/10 06:58 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

antipot is just prodeath at this point but noone cares

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OfflineJoe Joe
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Re: Prop 19 Opponents Veer Off Into Paranoia [Re: al32us]
    #13404589 - 10/29/10 02:20 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

I definitely think that if 19 passes a US crop of both recreational and industrial hemp is not far behind.  The dispensaries and small growers may have another few "golden years", but believe that Phillip Morris and Monsanto are going to jump on that shit. 
The great thing about this Bill is that it allows anyone to grow, so those of us who are ambitious will never have to worry about the crazy shit they're putting in the filtered joints that are sold down at 7-11.
But can you imagine how the price of small time home growing equipment is going to skyrocket?  That's the business I want to be in if 19 passes!

BTW: Do it for the rest of us Cali!  I know if it goes through there and everything works out well financially for a couple of years, I might see legalization in Ohio before I die!

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OfflineScruffy404
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Re: Prop 19 Opponents Veer Off Into Paranoia [Re: al32us]
    #13405302 - 10/29/10 09:31 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Proposition 19 would prevent them from being able to "effectively enforce the drug-free workplace requirements outlined by the federal government". - (this would be a way for the federal government to strike down California. Bastards.)



No

? What about all the people who are taking prescribed  methadone? Oxycontin? Fuck even those T3's - Are those not drugs? So if someone has a doctor prescribed them this medicine it is ok to take it at work? They are drugs no? What is drug free? It would be the same as anyone else taking a prescribed medicine.

They wouldn't be aloud to use heavy machinery, etc, etc. I don't know why they make this out to be a big matter I have honestly seen some people show up to work tweaking on methadone and there's more and more "calm" and "workable" is not the words I would be using to describe these employee's.

As long as people are taking fucking methadone while at work and as long as other citizens like myself continue to work in the same environments as them ...All be smoking my "Weed" legalizing it can bring no downfall to anything maybe all that profit for people dealing it and to all the crooked cops and to the cartels, etc. That's about the only downfall I can think of if they legalize pot...It will take away the money boo fucking hoo people who oppose are gonna fight tooth and nail because they know the market will be gone...

Honestly why do think the government's care so much you think there not already making billions off it? Legalization will put a dent in there wallet for sure. Legit or Not.

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OfflineYoushouldknowabc
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Re: Prop 19 Opponents Veer Off Into Paranoia [Re: Scruffy404]
    #13405443 - 10/29/10 10:18 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

yeah i agree.

if you can take an oxy at work because you have 'pain' than you should be able to smoke a joint on your work because you have 'pain'. meds are meds, drugs are drugs.

I wonder what D.A.R.E teaches kids nowadays..

"Remember kids, pot is only for people with cancer, if you smoke or ingest pot you will kill your braincells and end up as a vegetable"

Oh.. okay.

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Offlineal32us
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Re: Prop 19 Opponents Veer Off Into Paranoia [Re: Youshouldknowabc]
    #13407173 - 10/29/10 05:09 PM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Honestly I don't know how the federal government will REALLY react if this passes. Federal law enforcement is clearly ready to kill Californians for smoking pot if they could get away with it. Who knows how federal funding could be used to deter or extort California. Although THAT could just be paranoia in itself. Like I said, who knows.. I doubt federal cops are going to sit on there butts though. California, get ready for some dirty tricks..


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