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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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The Pledge of Apology
    #1336337 - 02/26/03 12:27 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I just saw an article on the news about this girl on some High School basketball team who has raised up a big stink because she turns her back on the flag during the Pledge of Allegience.

A bunch of people were pissed off about it. Some Vietnam vet came out to confront her about it in front of the entire crowd.

Why are people so offended by people who express shame in their country? It's not like there's nothing to be ashamed about. America has done many many things that were just wrong. People who were not Americans, and did not have any family, or vested interest in America have died for our country too, not just vets. We owe them as much respect as those who died for thier own country How do we show our respect for them?

How about a "Pledge of Apology"? It should be about the same length as the Pledge of Allegience, though I know it could go on for days.

Here's an example of one possible version:

I'm very sorry for what we've done
In the name of Freedom and Liberty.
Our intentions were good, except when they were'nt.
You died so that we
could feel safe and free,
even though you were not one of us.


--------------------


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The Pledge of Apology [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1336365 - 02/26/03 12:59 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

A bunch of people were pissed off about it. Some Vietnam vet came out to confront her about it in front of the entire crowd.



all he did was wave a flag in front of her...his right as well.

Quote:

Why are people so offended by people who express shame in their country?



I don't think that people got so offended by the act as much as the situation and who the girl is. Apparantly she's known as a "me me me" basketball player and this stunt was just another of a long list of "me me me" things she's done.

Quote:

How about a "Pledge of Apology"? It should be about the same length as the Pledge of Allegience,



personally i could do without either of them

Quote:

I'm very sorry for what we've done
In the name of Freedom and Liberty.
Our intentions were good, except when they were'nt.
You died so that we
could feel safe and free,
even though you were not one of us.



sounds a little too whiney.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: The Pledge of Apology [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1337142 - 02/26/03 09:20 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I don't think that people got so offended by the act as much as the situation and who the girl is. Apparantly she's known as a "me me me" basketball player and this stunt was just another of a long list of "me me me" things she's done.
 




I don't know the whole story. I don't even know where this is taking place. Do you?


Quote:

all he did was wave a flag in front of her...his right as well.




Damn Vietnam attention whores.  :smirk:

Quote:

sounds a little too whiney.




I modeled it after the Pledge of Allegience, which unfortunately made it seem more like a parody. It is meant to be sincere, not a protest.

It would just be nice if we coud just stop blowing smoke up our own asses once in a while, and admit to our faults. Blind patriotism is the greatest disrespect one can have towards the flag.

But it could stand to be a little less whiney, and a little more sincere.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The Pledge of Apology [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1337150 - 02/26/03 09:24 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

maybe an apology rap is in order?

you know, kick it old school :grin:


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


Edited by Innvertigo (02/26/03 09:28 AM)


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: The Pledge of Apology [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1337152 - 02/26/03 09:24 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I like it the way it is! :smirk:


--------------------
"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Pledge of Apology [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1337162 - 02/26/03 09:28 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I just saw an article on the news about this girl on some High School basketball team who has raised up a big stink because she turns her back on the flag during the Pledge of Allegience




Is anyone aware of the fact that the pledge is supposed to have been removed from the schools and school functions, something about a seperation of church and state.

prisoner#1


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: The Pledge of Apology [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1337165 - 02/26/03 09:28 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

We could make "Oops, we did it again" the national anthem.


--------------------


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: The Pledge of Apology [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #1337619 - 02/26/03 12:32 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Is anyone aware of the fact that the pledge is supposed to have been removed from the schools and school functions,



You seem to have little grasp of the facts here. It was declared unconstitutional by the 9th circuit court (the most overturned court in the nation) who then stayed their own ruling.


Quote:

something about a seperation of church and state.



There is no mention of separation of church and state in the constitution.

Here you go....
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"
All it says is Congress can not start or endorse, or prohibit or stop, a religion. Nowhere does it say anything about prohibiting things like the pledge or religion in schools.

I wish it did because I'm an atheist. I think religion should have NO part in government but that, sadly, is not what the constitution says.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (02/26/03 12:34 PM)


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: The Pledge of Apology [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1338427 - 02/26/03 06:11 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

We could make "Oops, we did it again" the national anthem.



Let's not. The national anthem we have already is bad enough.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: The Pledge of Apology [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #1338437 - 02/26/03 06:15 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

No, the the line "Under God" has been removed from the Pledge of Alliegence. The Pledge is still said legally in schools.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: The Pledge of Apology [Re: Anonymous]
    #1339022 - 02/26/03 11:36 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

No, the the line "Under God" has been removed from the Pledge of Alliegence.



I could be wrong but since the same court that made the ruling put a stay on it the next day, I'm unaware of any schools that have changed the wording. Got any examples?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Re: The Pledge of Apology [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1339113 - 02/27/03 01:23 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

There is no mention of separation of church and state in the constitution.



Man, you beat me to it. This has got to be the most misunderstood portion of the 1st amendment. There is no place that says schools or anyplace cannot have the pledge a prayer etc.

some people might want to read it before opening their mouth.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: The Pledge of Apology [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1339125 - 02/27/03 01:35 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Who coined the phrase "Seperation of church and state"? Seems like it was Thomas Jefferson.



--------------------


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The Pledge of Apology [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1339229 - 02/27/03 03:50 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Correct...

The term is actually a Supreme Court term rather a strictly constituional one.

Article VI states..'but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the Unied States.'

The First Amendment first phrase; 'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..'

Jefferson wrote a letter to the Danbury Baptist Asociation in which the words, 'thus building a wall of seperation between Church and State.'
The Supreme Court quoted this in 1947 and it has been used ever since.



--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Re: The Pledge of Apology [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1339283 - 02/27/03 04:32 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

was just another of a long list of "me me me" things she's done.





If that is the case, she should have stood tall and proud and saluted the flag of me me me!


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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Re: The Pledge of Apology [Re: sirreal]
    #1339347 - 02/27/03 05:22 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

If that is the case, she should have stood tall and proud and saluted the flag of me me me!



That made absolutly no sense.

she wasn't protesting the Iraq thing as much as she was trying to protest the inequities of minorities (she's black and of american indian descent). She was protesting on how bad they have it and get no chances in life. It was ironic because she's attending Manhatten College a rich private school which she can go to for free because of her being an american indian.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Re: The Pledge of Apology [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1339370 - 02/27/03 05:35 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I don't think that people got so offended by the act as much as the situation and who the girl is. Apparantly she's known as a "me me me" basketball player and this stunt was just another of a long list of "me me me" things she's done.




You stated she was a "me me me" type of person. I was insinuating that if she was a "me me me" type of person then she should have been proud to stand facing a flag that, in my opinion, represents the "me me me" type of mentality.

It is called sarcasm. Get it now?


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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Re: The Pledge of Apology [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1339372 - 02/27/03 05:39 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:


she wasn't protesting the Iraq thing as much as she was trying to protest the inequities of minorities (she's black and of american indian descent). She was protesting on how bad they have it and get no chances in life. It was ironic because she's attending Manhatten College a rich private school which she can go to for free because of her being an american indian.





I see now. I had not heard of this outside of this thread.


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: The Pledge of Apology [Re: sirreal]
    #1339405 - 02/27/03 05:59 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

It is called sarcasm. Get it now?



it was still a pretty stupid thing to say but i guess you have a right your opinion.....


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: The Pledge of Apology [Re: Innvertigo]
    #1339413 - 02/27/03 06:02 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Oh brother. It was not really an opinion, but , whatever.


--------------------
I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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