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Anonymous

anarchy
    #1335787 - 02/25/03 07:08 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

If i can image a world of peace, hope, and humanity living as one, why can't it happen? I'm thinking it right now, and i'm believing we can do it. Just have hope and faith in fellow man and one day it will be a reality.

Wars have always been justified and we are on the brink of another "justified" one. It almost makes me sick at the ignorance of it all. But I do have faith, I can dream the perfect world, the way it could and should be.. can you?


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Anonymous

Re: anarchy [Re: ]
    #1335809 - 02/25/03 07:15 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Reality check: men desire power above all else :\


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InvisibleEvolving
Resident Cynic

Registered: 10/01/02
Posts: 5,385
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Re: anarchy [Re: Anonymous]
    #1336542 - 02/26/03 04:26 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Reality check: men desire power above all else :\



BINGO! That is why any utopian scheme is bound to attract the power lusters who will grab the reigns of power and guide the state apparatus towards their own end(s). ANY government, no matter how well intentioned its founding, must be guarded against and always mistrusted.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


Edited by Evolving (02/26/03 04:28 AM)


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 9,134
Re: anarchy [Re: ]
    #1336667 - 02/26/03 05:44 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

For the vast majority of the human race's existence it did happen. There are no beggers and rich men in hunter gatherer society. Each person works totally for the welfare of everyone else. The last 5000 years are an abberation, which is probably why the world is in such a terrible state at the moment.

If we can survive this phase, where we have abandoned our fate to the scum bastards running corporations that are intent on destroying the planet for short term greed, our future looks bright. Humans naturally want to help each other - it's something that has puzzled the corporate boss's for many years. No matter how much they encourage selfish greed and hatred people still seem to prefer loving and caring for one another.


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Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Invisiblesever
Where am I?
Registered: 02/02/03
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Re: anarchy [Re: Xlea321]
    #1336837 - 02/26/03 06:43 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

~


Edited by sever (07/17/06 06:16 PM)


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/19/00
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Re: anarchy [Re: Xlea321]
    #1336856 - 02/26/03 06:54 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Alex123 writes:

The last 5000 years are an abberation, which is probably why the world is in such a terrible state at the moment.

Something that lasts for a brief while is an aberration, not something that has been the norm since the dawn of recorded history. Something last seen more than five millennia ago is extinct. Think of it as social evolution in action.

Humans naturally want to help each other -

Correct, which is why government-mandated social programs that can be maintained only through the initiation of force are clearly not necessary.

pinky


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Edited by pinksharkmark (02/26/03 07:04 AM)


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: anarchy [Re: Xlea321]
    #1336898 - 02/26/03 07:18 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I was actually just reading a book about pseudo-science, and it had a whole chapter about this ridiculous theory that the world lived in peace and harmony before society started to grow. I couldn't take the book out of the library though, 'cause I owe them too much in fines.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


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Anonymous

Re: anarchy [Re: Anonymous]
    #1336982 - 02/26/03 07:58 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Reality check: men desire power above all else :\

There are a lot of innate desires inside of us. We all have bloodlust and the desire to kill, but we as a whole have deemed it wrong and for the most part, we follow that natural law.

No person should be ruled over by anyone, under any circumstances... just as killing isn't acceptable under any circumstances. Anarchy won't just happen, it takes a concentrated effort to change some of your beliefs. We can overcome mans desire for power... the masses must believe power is wrong and corrupt, only then can we move past that obstacle and unto something else that stands in our way. Lets not put down the hope for peace and freedom because of an undesirable character of man.


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Anonymous

Re: anarchy [Re: sever]
    #1336985 - 02/26/03 08:00 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Yes, sounds pretty interesting huh? I came across that a couple weeks ago and I was very excited. Its a huge step towards freedom, if it does happen, there is a good chance I will move there. I just hope the people involved will take it seriously and be a model of what this world can achieve.


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: anarchy [Re: ]
    #1337047 - 02/26/03 08:26 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

There are a lot of innate desires inside of us. We all have bloodlust and the desire to kill, but we as a whole have deemed it wrong and for the most part, we follow that natural law.

No person should be ruled over by anyone, under any circumstances... just as killing isn't acceptable under any circumstances. Anarchy won't just happen, it takes a concentrated effort to change some of your beliefs. We can overcome mans desire for power... the masses must believe power is wrong and corrupt, only then can we move past that obstacle and unto something else that stands in our way. Lets not put down the hope for peace and freedom because of an undesirable character of man.



Thank you.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: anarchy [Re: Phred]
    #1337175 - 02/26/03 09:40 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Something that lasts for a brief while is an aberration, not something that has been the norm since the dawn of recorded history.

The human race is around 2 million years old, homo sapiens anything up to half a million years old. Recorded history is what - the last 3000 years? I think you could still call that time frame an abberation compared to the hundreds of thousands of years humans lived in an anarchist society.

Correct, which is why government-mandated social programs that can be maintained only through the initiation of force are clearly not necessary.

No-one has to force me to pay tax to care for handicapped kids.

The only tragedy is that my tax is going on the Iraq war and funding big corporations.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Anonymous

Re: anarchy [Re: Xlea321]
    #1337217 - 02/26/03 10:05 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

There is evidence that even the first human beings had leaders. Even monkeys do, from which we evolved. Every single social animal on this planet has "leaders." It is necessary for order and the survival of the species.


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: anarchy [Re: Anonymous]
    #1338637 - 02/26/03 07:48 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

You're missing the point. For the vast majority of human history eople worked for the welfare of the group. Not for selfish greed and self-interest. That's the essence of anarchism not capitalism.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: anarchy [Re: Xlea321]
    #1338708 - 02/26/03 08:25 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Actually, what existed prior to large governments would be more accurately described as feudalism than ararchy.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: anarchy [Re: Xlea321]
    #1339247 - 02/27/03 04:05 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

You're missing the point. For the vast majority of human history eople worked for the welfare of the group. Not for selfish greed and self-interest. That's the essence of anarchism not capitalism. 



That's the essence of fantasy, not anarchy.  Anarchy's generally accepted meanings are...
1. the complete absence of government and law.
2. political disorder and violence: lawlessness.
3. disorder in any sphere of activity.
Syn. - lawlessness, disorder, tumult, rebelion, riot, insubordination.

Source: Webster's Dictionary, unabridged, Second Edition :blush:
 


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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InvisibleXlea321
Stranger
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Posts: 9,134
Re: anarchy [Re: silversoul7]
    #1339400 - 02/27/03 05:56 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Actually, what existed prior to large governments would be more accurately described as feudalism than ararchy.

No, we're talking way before feudalism. Small groups of around 30 hunter-gatherers are most efficient when each member feels they have a say in the group. Start trying to divide into kings and slaves and it isn't going to work.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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InvisibleXlea321
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Re: anarchy [Re: Evolving]
    #1339402 - 02/27/03 05:57 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Anarchy's generally accepted meanings are...

Read around. Don't rely on websters dictionary for a definition of anarchy.


--------------------
Don't worry, B. Caapi


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: anarchy [Re: Xlea321]
    #1339406 - 02/27/03 06:00 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Small groups of around 30 hunter-gatherers are most efficient when each member feels they have a say in the group.





let's all divide into groups of thirty and see how that works out.


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I may not always tell the truth, but atleast I'm honest
-----------

I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
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Re: anarchy [Re: Xlea321]
    #1339428 - 02/27/03 06:07 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

i'm curious, what is your definition or anarchy (not an exact definition, but just waht you think it is)?

webster, IMO hit it right on the head.


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: anarchy [Re: Xlea321]
    #1339445 - 02/27/03 06:16 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Read around. Don't rely on websters dictionary for a definition of anarchy.



Dictionaries definitions are determined by studying the literature and common usage of the language. Are you saying that we should ignore commonly accepted usages of terms when trying to communicate? This seems to be a piss poor way of getting your ideas across. Perhaps you should re-evaluate you concepts of communication if you would like others to understand your ideas.


--------------------
To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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