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OfflineMr Mycoman
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What determines the quality of the pinset?
    #13354922 - 10/18/10 10:24 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Assuming you are using poo for a bulk sub in large trays of very well colonized myc. What determines the pinset, specifically, the number of pins ? Thanks,  MM


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OfflineMalachi Constant
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Re: What determines the quality of the pinset? [Re: Mr Mycoman]
    #13354928 - 10/18/10 10:27 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

genetics mostly.


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Re: What determines the quality of the pinset? [Re: Malachi Constant]
    #13354935 - 10/18/10 10:32 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I would agree, mainly genetics,also maintaining optimal fruiting conditions.


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OfflineMr Mycoman
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Re: What determines the quality of the pinset? [Re: Othyem]
    #13355040 - 10/18/10 10:58 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I guess what I meant to say was, what can I do to optimize the pinset? Thanks for the help........MM


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OfflinePandor
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Re: What determines the quality of the pinset? [Re: Mr Mycoman]
    #13355095 - 10/18/10 11:10 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mr Mycoman said:
I guess what I meant to say was, what can I do to optimize the pinset? Thanks for the help........MM




Make sure your tray is FULLY colonized before introducing to fruiting conditions.

Some people do not prefer clear trays because it allows for side pins, but I like them because I can see the myc consume the whole thing before I introduce it to fruiting conditions.

I'm sure others will chip in with other pieces of advice they have experienced, but that was a big one for me.


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OfflineMr Mycoman
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Re: What determines the quality of the pinset? [Re: Pandor]
    #13356255 - 10/19/10 09:08 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks Pandor, I agree about the clear plastic. Duct tape covers it up when ready. I recently had several trays that looked perfect, as far as colonization goes, but they only had a few shrooms on them. My air changes are about 3/hour, RH = 98%, temp= 75 degrees, 18" grow light in a 32cf FC, and the strain is a proven producer. I also had a mono tub (14" x 20" and the sub is 3" deep) do the same thing and it is extremely colonized. Could it be the CO2 levels? Maybe I need more air changes? I did some searchs before I posted this and everybody seems to say that pinsets get better with experience, but that doesn't tell me anything. What I really want to know is exactly what affects the pinset. From what I have gathered it would be the growth parameters(ie, CO2, RH etc...) but I would like to hear it here in person so I can ask questions. Thanks for any help,  MM


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Re: What determines the quality of the pinset? [Re: Mr Mycoman]
    #13356282 - 10/19/10 09:14 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Mushrooms are sex.

It's not that mushrooms are 'like' sex- mushrooms are sex.
A big healthy flush of fat sporulating caps is how your fungus has a huge toe-curling orgasm.

Learn the pinning requirements of your target species, then practice, practice, practice.
You don't encourage a good pinset so much as you entice one.


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Re: What determines the quality of the pinset? [Re: Mr Mycoman]
    #13356400 - 10/19/10 09:40 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

ime the key to optimal pinsets ms or not is the timing of when you decide to fruit and how you do it ... you want your mycelium shooting upwards and arriving at the threshold of the surface all at the same time ... this means knowing when your sub is fully consolidated and also creating the circumstances for well timed upward growing mycelium ...

im not very big on casing cubensis so usually elect to mix the bottom  %75 of my sub/spawn up then place pure substrate over it ... this makes so the rhizomorphic growth shoots upwards and also creates a pretty good timing blanket so everything finishes up uniformly ...

in instances where a lopsided surface may develop i firmly believe patching to be beneficial ... it keeps the earlier arriving mycelium to the surface from growing in on itself or drying up and becoming matted , keeping that timing uniform as well ...

in conclusion ... timing , timing , timing !


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: What determines the quality of the pinset? [Re: Mr Mycoman]
    #13356414 - 10/19/10 09:43 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mr Mycoman said:
everybody seems to say that pinsets get better with experience, but that doesn't tell me anything. What I really want to know is exactly what affects the pinset. From what I have gathered it would be the growth parameters(ie, CO2, RH etc...) but I would like to hear it here in person so I can ask questions. Thanks for any help,  MM




The first thing is full colonization, plus a week or more for the mycelium to 'consolidate' its hold on the substrate, thereby digesting some of the food it has colonized.

The second is massive amounts of fresh air exchange.  Three air exchanges per hour are not nearly enough unless you only have one cake in a large terrarium.  In fact, the whole concept of air exchanges per hour is a horrible way to measure fresh air supply because it doesn't take into account the amount of mycelium, thus the amount of CO2 being produced.  Constant fresh air supply is far better, and it must be enough to keep the CO2 level at less than 1000 ppm.  I personally shoot for under 700 ppm in my grow rooms.

The third most important pinning trigger is light.  That means bright, high frequency light and lots of it. Remember that the intensity of light decreases by the square of the distance from the source, so have your lamp as close to the mushroom substrate as possible without overheating the area.  Use 6500 Kelvin lamps, as that frequency has shown to be best for mushroom production.

In addition, clear tubs have little or nothing to do with side pinning.  Clear tubs are better because they admit light on five sides rather than just one side(the top).  Light anywhere on a substrate will stimulate pinning anywhere else on the substrate where conditions are ripe.  Light doesn't just trigger pins in the area it hits, thus clear tubs are fine, and wrapping with tape makes no difference regarding side pins.  If for some reason you don't want side pins, line the inside of the tray with plastic sheeting, which will stick to the substrate and shrink as it does, thus eliminating the gap around the edges, which is the real cause of side pinning.
RR


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OfflineSuchSmartMonkeys
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Re: What determines the quality of the pinset? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #13356467 - 10/19/10 09:56 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
In addition, clear tubs have little or nothing to do with side pinning.  Clear tubs are better because they admit light on five sides rather than just one side(the top).  Light anywhere on a substrate will stimulate pinning anywhere else on the substrate where conditions are ripe.  Light doesn't just trigger pins in the area it hits, thus clear tubs are fine, and wrapping with tape makes no difference regarding side pins.  If for some reason you don't want side pins, line the inside of the tray with plastic sheeting, which will stick to the substrate and shrink as it does, thus eliminating the gap around the edges, which is the real cause of side pinning.
RR



been doing this plastic bit for a while now, it does shrink in with the myc as it pulls in, but still gets massive amounts of side pins... suggestions?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: What determines the quality of the pinset? [Re: SuchSmartMonkeys]
    #13356477 - 10/19/10 10:00 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Eat them. 

Mycelium evolved over millions of years to fruit on all available substrate surface area.  Trying to make them only fruit on top is unnatural.  It makes for easier picking, but the mycelium really doesn't care much about our convenience.
RR


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Re: What determines the quality of the pinset? [Re: SuchSmartMonkeys]
    #13356481 - 10/19/10 10:00 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

It's been my experience that taping helps with at least some genetic sublines, and certainly it doesn't hurt anything.
Might help the tubs last longer too.


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Invisiblecyantific
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Re: What determines the quality of the pinset? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #13356485 - 10/19/10 10:01 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

im a bit curious still on the 6500 kelvin thing ...

by nature mushrooms have that biological clock that tells them when their season is ending , triggering them to focus on pinning and fruiting for reproductive purposes ... eg temperature drops and fresher air exchanges through seasonal winds ...

that said wouldn't a mix of warmer red late season light along with the not quite dissipated blue kelvin range of the summer ... be worth some consideration ?

how and by whom was the determination on 6500 kelvin reached anyway and to what affect ?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: What determines the quality of the pinset? [Re: cyantific]
    #13356513 - 10/19/10 10:10 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cyantific said:

that said wouldn't a mix of warmer red late season light along with the not quite dissipated blue kelvin range of the summer ... be worth some consideration ?

how and by whom was the determination on 6500 kelvin reached anyway and to what affect ?




That is only true of fall fruiting, cold weather mushrooms.  Other species fruit during the heat of summer, unrelated to temperature drops.

I personally arrived at the 6500K optimum light color through thousands of grows with literally dozens of lights of all types, wattage, and spectrum.  Since that time, it's been repeatedly verified by thousands of growers here and elsewhere.  I use 6500K in my own shiitake farm, and the two farms I work with in the Seattle area have both switched to 6500K and their harvests have gone up by 20% over the 'cool white' or 5000K fixtures they were using previously.  My tests showed that above 7,000K, performance begins to fall off.  6500K lamps are sold in hardware stores world-wide, often simply labeled as 'daylight'.
RR


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Re: What determines the quality of the pinset? [Re: SuchSmartMonkeys]
    #13356549 - 10/19/10 10:17 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

i never use it and dont get side-pins ... honestly i dont like the way the water condenses and drips down the bin collecting under up under the plastic where bacteria can thrive isolated from the mycelium ...

you could always pack some pasteurized or dry heated verm in the spaces lining the sub after it shrinks from consolidation ... it will restrict space and keep the fae to pretty much nil around the edges ... if used dry you got to mist it to field capacity after ...


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Re: What determines the quality of the pinset? [Re: cyantific]
    #13356599 - 10/19/10 10:27 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Side pins never bothered me. They were always nice and beefy, and they usually found their way to the top and poked out. When I had trays that would just not pin right from the top, I just pulled them out of their tray and left them in a block and experienced no decrease in yield at all.

Epic (even) pin sets are beautiful, but IMO over rated. When I got those on my trays, all of the fruits were competing and this caused many (hundreds even) of small fruits as opposed to a smaller amount of large fruits.

Good luck. Post some pics.

I miss my green house.


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Re: What determines the quality of the pinset? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #13356625 - 10/19/10 10:32 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

thats pretty cool ... hard to get any kind of reliable information on it ...

so would you say those 2 instances are one in the same ... pinning vs fruiting when it comes to light ... there seems to be a fine line there when youre dealing with triggers and actual production ...

for instance pinning in full spectrum then fruiting out in 6500 ? or is it conclusively one in the same ... i just cant get over why 2 other triggers are so integral to seasonal changes and the one not ...



im just throwing this shit out here while i got you on haha


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OfflineMr Mycoman
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Re: What determines the quality of the pinset? [Re: cyantific]
    #13359603 - 10/19/10 09:13 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

So, let's see if I got this, I should try and time the arrival of the myc to the top(full colonization + consolidation) with the onset of fruiting conditions so it is basically a seemless myc run from spawning to pinning with no interuptions. So it transitions from one stage to the next with no interuptions.

Also, get busy and tweek the growing parameters in my FC. Especially, up the FAE to a constant flow of fresh air. I just bought some new lights so I will get the 6500K bulbs if they aren't what I have allready(I think they are)

Is my RH too high? While I was searching I found an old post by RR that said there needs to be periodic evaporation of moisture off the myc. With 98% RH that isn't gonna happen. Maybe that is part of the problem. Thanks for all the info guys, this has helped a lot.......MM


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OfflineMr Mycoman
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Re: What determines the quality of the pinset? [Re: Mr Mycoman]
    #13359786 - 10/19/10 09:49 PM (13 years, 4 months ago)

I installed an exhaust fan to supplement the cool mist humidifier I was using for FAE. I'm going to get the proper temp(K) bulbs for the lighting tomorrow. That should do it, we'll see when the next set of trays are ready for the FC next week. Thanks all..........MM


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Re: What determines the quality of the pinset? [Re: Mr Mycoman]
    #13360862 - 10/20/10 06:29 AM (13 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mr Mycoman said:
So, let's see if I got this, I should try and time the arrival of the myc to the top(full colonization + consolidation) with the onset of fruiting conditions so it is basically a seemless myc run from spawning to pinning with no interuptions. So it transitions from one stage to the next with no interuptions.

Also, get busy and tweek the growing parameters in my FC. Especially, up the FAE to a constant flow of fresh air. I just bought some new lights so I will get the 6500K bulbs if they aren't what I have allready(I think they are)

Is my RH too high? While I was searching I found an old post by RR that said there needs to be periodic evaporation of moisture off the myc. With 98% RH that isn't gonna happen. Maybe that is part of the problem. Thanks for all the info guys, this has helped a lot.......MM




sounds good ... of those 3 the last two are pretty fundamental and what you want to focus on the most ... the timing takes some practice sometimes , patching and the like ... you sound smarter than the average bear though so im sure you can swing it ! best of luck !


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