Quote:

---

laserpig said:
you are implicit in the unjust incarceration of multiple thousands of innocent people.

---

Quote:

---

Green_T said:
Prop 19 isn't perfect, but it is a HUGE step forward.

---

Quote:

---

laserpig said:
IMO there is only one real argument to be had regarding prop 19, and it's a very, very serious one.

People are in JAIL for selling and/or growing a plant.
Years of their lives, wasted, stolen from them.
This is a FUCKING OUTRAGE.

Every one of you who is even THINKING about voting no on prop 19, remember this:
If you do, you are complicit in the unjust incarceration of multiple thousands of innocent people.

Sorry to bring you crashing back to reality, but them's the facts.

---

Quote:

---

laserpig said:
What I'm saying is that every Californian has a strict moral obligation to vote for prop 19, because even if they don't fancy the specific regulation schemes being proposed, to vote against 19 is to endorse the unjust incarceration of thousands of innocents.

*Thanks Pris.

---

In my opinion prop 19 will be horrible to the industry. Yea many people knowingly broke an unjust law to engage in cultivation of marijuana and are incarcerated in jail;  But that is that.  Sux.

If 19 passes I think millions of federal dollars will be withheld in an attempt to gain control by the feds.  That and small time growers will be outta business unless I can start sending packages to you outta state.  On the other hand doesn't prop 19 also allow for stricter penalties for growers not licensed?  Another issue.  That and do you really think the feds will let Oaksterdam open his warehouses? Prop 19 will probably pass. And I need a new job.  I think the quality of buds on the scene will diminish.  I see huge crops of outdoor flooding the market; homegrown.  It sux enough in the bay right now.  Go on cl and see what a qp is selling for.

How can I make money if these fuckers are flooding the mkt...


I have a 215 card.  I will vote no on prop 19 and I urge you to do so as well.  Protect the industry.  Possession of an ounce or less is already just an infraction in california.  We don't need this. That and if you are 18, do you really want to wait 3 years to smoke legally when you can get a card at 18 and smoke now?

Quote:

---

cacharstar said:
How can I make money if these fuckers are flooding the mkt...

I have a 215 card.  I will vote no on prop 19 and I urge you to do so as well.  Protect the industry.

---

Quote:

---

cacharstar said:

Quote:

---

laserpig said:
What I'm saying is that every Californian has a strict moral obligation to vote for prop 19, because even if they don't fancy the specific regulation schemes being proposed, to vote against 19 is to endorse the unjust incarceration of thousands of innocents.

*Thanks Pris.

---

In my opinion prop 19 will be horrible to the industry. Yea many people knowingly broke an unjust law to engage in cultivation of marijuana and are incarcerated in jail;  But that is that.  Sux.

If 19 passes I think millions of federal dollars will be withheld in an attempt to gain control by the feds.  That and small time growers will be outta business unless I can start sending packages to you outta state.  On the other hand doesn't prop 19 also allow for stricter penalties for growers not licensed?  Another issue.  That and do you really think the feds will let Oaksterdam open his warehouses? Prop 19 will probably pass. And I need a new job.  I think the quality of buds on the scene will diminish.  I see huge crops of outdoor flooding the market; homegrown.  It sux enough in the bay right now.  Go on cl and see what a qp is selling for.

How can I make money if these fuckers are flooding the mkt...


I have a 215 card.  I will vote no on prop 19 and I urge you to do so as well.  Protect the industry.  Possession of an ounce or less is already just an infraction in california.  We don't need this. That and if you are 18, do you really want to wait 3 years to smoke legally when you can get a card at 18 and smoke now?

---

Quote:

---

laserpig said:
FUCK your "industry" you goddamn selfish prick.
I have nothing to say to you.

---

My industry? 





It is alright to disagree with me but to disrespect me that is another story.  Fuck what is the point of having a democracy of we are not allowed to have An opinion


This will be bad for california.  Can you not see the path this will take?  You will see.  So what you want to smoke weed legally.  Well guess what prop 19 wont legalize weed.  If anything it will make it harder to get it legalized on a national level.  It would be better to first change the national law with a prop that allows the states to do as they wish with it but for cali to undermine the federal policies on marijuana will only make it worse.  Fuck we fought a civil war over states rights and guess who lost...    Fucking hate on me but don't forget to vote.  It is in your hands.

And yes I smoke weed and am agents this prop and so are many of the ppl I know that are in The industry   

My industry

Quote:

---

scienceguy said:
Beer is legal, and the GOOD brewers still make money...

Competition is only scary when you're bad at what you do. 

---

Quote:

---

Arguments Against Proposition 19: Why the Marijuana Initiative is Bad for California
by Rich Deem
Introduction Prop 19 Harmless?
Proposition 19 (Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act 2010) has been billed as a way to save tax payer money for law enforcement of "harmless" marijuana use and provide extra tax revenue for state and local governments. Many of the claims by proponents of Prop 19 are blatantly false.

Rich Deem
Marijuana (cannabis) is the most widely used illegal drug in many developed countries.1 California's Proposition 19, the Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act 2010 (RCTCA) to be voted on this fall by the citizens of California, will decide whether marijuana will become legalized for cultivation, transportation and personal use by adults 21 years of age and older. If passed, this will be the first legalization of marijuana use for non-medical reasons in the United States.

What Prop 19 would doProposition 19 legalizes the personal cultivation (up to 25 square feet) and use and transportation of marijuana (up to one ounce).2 Of course, 25 square feet of marijuana plants produces much more than one ounce of marijuana. Although the initiative provides penalties for adults (over 18 years old) providing marijuana to minors, there is nothing in the law that prohibits minors from growing and providing marijuana to each other. Presumably their parents could be held liable, although it would have to be proven that they provided the marijuana initially.

Protected class of usersProposition 19 establishes a dangerous legal precedent by establishing marijuana use as a protected class under the law:

No person shall be punished, fined, discriminated against, or be denied any right or privilege for lawfully engaging in any conduct permitted by this Act or authorized pursuant to Section 11301 of this Act. Provided however, that the existing right of an employer to address consumption that actually impairs job performance by an employee shall not be affected.2

No on Prop 19Employers will be unable to prevent marijuana use by their employees unless they can prove that such use impairs job performance. Exactly how they would prove that marijuana use impairs job performance would be difficult, at best. It should be noted that alcohol abuse is not a protected class, whereas proposition 19 would create such a protected class for marijuana users.

Loss of federal grantsProposition 19 creates a state law that conflicts with federal drug laws. On the surface, this does not seem to be a big deal, since President Obama has stated that he won't enforce the federal law in California. However, there is another issue that could cause the loss of billions of dollars to the state. Public contracts and grants require grantees to effectively enforce the drug-free workplace requirements (which includes marijuana use) outlined by the federal government's Federal Workplace Act of 1988. Not only may schools lose their federal grants, but medical research institutions, including the one for which I work (Cedars-Sinai Medical Center), could lose millions of dollars annually.

Rights of property owners?The language of the initiative is unclear about the rights of property owners who rent to others. Section 11300 (a) provides that "cultivation on leased or rented property may be subject to approval from the owner of the property" (emphasis added).2 Since this provision does not state "shall be subject to approval," it is unclear if property owner approval is required. Property owners will be at the mercy of the courts' interpretation of this section, in light of the establishment of marijuana use as a protected class, if they attempt to block marijuana cultivation on their own property.

"Regulate and control and tax"?The title of Proposition 19, "the Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act 2010" implies that marijuana is going to be regulated and controlled by the initiative. In fact, the law provides for no regulation or control, but leaves it up to local governments to initiate such controls and or regulations. In addition, there are no provisions to tax marijuana cultivation or use in the initiative. Instead, such taxation, if it ever happens will be left to local governments. In fact, a provision of the initiative specifically prevents the stat of California from taxing marijuana sales any more than the usual sales tax,3 in contrast to cigarettes and liquor. Since the enforcement of locally enacted taxation will be next to impossible, there will never be any significant revenue produced through this initiative.

Major supporters will profitMuch of the financial support for Proposition 19 comes from Richard Lee, who runs "Oaksterdam University," which teaches "students" the "fine arts" of cannabis growing, and S.K. Seymour LLC, a Medical Cannabis Provider, who would profit immensely through the estimated 90% drop in costs of marijuana, as supplies increase dramatically. There has been virtually no grassroots financial support for Prop 19.4

Adverse health effectsAs a recreational drug, marijuana is not quite as benign as most of its proponents would claim. Heavy marijuana use results in long-term effects on the brain, including lower responses in those areas which are affected by THC. Although users are able to compensate somewhat through the use of other brain areas, the long term effects of this damage, as users age, has not been determined. This damage may be responsible for impairments noted in short-term and long-term memory, along with a host of possible other psychiatric illnesses. A proportion of marijuana users become addicted and suffer from classic withdrawal symptoms upon abstinence. For a minority of users, marijuana is a gateway drug, and they proceed to use and abuse more powerful psychostimulants. Besides its effects upon the brain, marijuana use can lead to increased risks for respiratory cancers and may have some adverse cardiovascular and cerebrovascular effects in some users. Marijuana smoke has been placed on the California Proposition 65 list of carcinogenic materials, as required by California law for materials proven to cause cancer.5 Marijuana use during pregnancy has been shown to result in lower child intelligence, while increasing the incidence of mental health problems. The idea that marijuana is a harmless recreational pastime has been disproved through continuing scientific research. More information and documentation of the adverse health effects of marijuana use is available in a review of the current scientific literature.

Social costsMarijuana UseAlthough marijuana use does not universally negatively impact all individual's health, it will result in increased health care and mental health costs resulting from increased marijuana use and abuse among Californians.
6
How do we know marijuana use will increase if Prop 19 is passed? The map to the left shows the percentage of the population that use marijuana throughout the state of California. Marijuana use is nearly double in the northern counties of the state, where marijuana cultivation is much higher than in other counties. As a result of increase availability of marijuana should Proposition 19 pass, the number of people driving under the influence of marijuana will also increase dramatically, as it has in Europe, since its legalization there. In addition, there is no THC blood standard for what constitutes "driving under the influence" of marijuana, so police will fine it difficult to enforce marijuana DUI arrests. The cost in terms of increased deaths from automobile accidents could be in the hundreds to thousands of lives lost. What are they thinking? The American Academy of Pediatrics opposes the legalization of marijuana, because of increased likely abuse by adolescents.


7

---

Whatever you say is within your right.

Quote:

---

cacharstar said:
It is alright to disagree with me but to disrespect me that is another story.

---

Quote:

---

cacharstar said:
In my opinion prop 19 will be horrible to the industry.

---

Quote:

---

I will vote no on prop 19 and I urge you to do so as well.  Protect the industry.

---

Your not worth the bullet it would take to end your miserable existence

Quote:

---

laserpig said:
There will never come a day when the president waves a wand and suddenly everything is perfect.
It's going to be a struggle all the way, and it has to start in the states.
This is how it starts. If we don't get it started, it will never be finished.

---

So not to sound rude but it is like saying because this fat aids infested chick wants to fuck and I want to get laid, I  will look over the obvious turn off and fuck her because I have no guarantee another chick will come along. 

Quote:

---

niteowl said:
Laserpig is right. You crying because you may loose a bit of money is selfish and greedy.



Prop 19 is the best thing that could ever happen if you want it to become 'fully legal'.

Small steps man.

This is the best chance for weed to become legal EVER ...
and for you to oppose legalization because of the reasons you mentioned is sad.

Make it legal first then hammer out the fine details, its not a hard concept.

---

Quote:

---

laserpig said:
No, because AIDS is permanent, and the potentially damaging parts of prop 19 are not.
As I keep trying to get across to you, this is a STARTING POINT, not the end of the process.
If 19 passes, it will lend enormous momentum to the proponents of real legalization, and things will only get better from there.

---

I hope you are right. I just see a mess in the makin

Quote:

---

niteowl said:
Yea, I see it as the best chance EVER for a state to stand up to the federal government, and say .....

FUCK YOU !!!!

And your too chicken shit to do so because you may loose some profit

---

It is not about proffit. Btw thanks for rating me a 0 for my opnion.  Do you forget that we fought a civil war over states rights?  That wound has yet to heal.  Can't you see the path this can take?  It is not about me losing money, I'll just find another scheme.  This is about way more then that.

Quote:

---

cacharstar said:
It is not about proffit.

---

Quote:

---

Do you forget that we fought a civil war over states rights?

---

Quote:

---

Can't you see the path this can take?

---

Yes, and its all good. This is a move in the RIGHT direction and you want to shit on it

Quote:

---

cacharstar said:

Quote:

---

laserpig said:
What I'm saying is that every Californian has a strict moral obligation to vote for prop 19, because even if they don't fancy the specific regulation schemes being proposed, to vote against 19 is to endorse the unjust incarceration of thousands of innocents.

*Thanks Pris.

---

In my opinion prop 19 will be horrible to the industry. Yea many people knowingly broke an unjust law to engage in cultivation of marijuana and are incarcerated in jail;  But that is that.  Sux.

If 19 passes I think millions of federal dollars will be withheld in an attempt to gain control by the feds.  That and small time growers will be outta business unless I can start sending packages to you outta state.  On the other hand doesn't prop 19 also allow for stricter penalties for growers not licensed?  Another issue.  That and do you really think the feds will let Oaksterdam open his warehouses? Prop 19 will probably pass. And I need a new job.  I think the quality of buds on the scene will diminish.  I see huge crops of outdoor flooding the market; homegrown.  It sux enough in the bay right now.  Go on cl and see what a qp is selling for.

How can I make money if these fuckers are flooding the mkt...


I have a 215 card.  I will vote no on prop 19 and I urge you to do so as well.  Protect the industry.  Possession of an ounce or less is already just an infraction in california.  We don't need this. That and if you are 18, do you really want to wait 3 years to smoke legally when you can get a card at 18 and smoke now?

---

Quote:

---

cacharstar said:
You keep talking about growing hemp, but hemp is considered marijuana and under prop 19 and you would still only be able to grow a modest patch.  Not nearly enough hemp to survive. So you could posses an ounce of hemp.  Whoot whoot

---

Quote:

---

scienceguy said:
This is another civil rights battle.  Don't let the prohibitionist try to convince you otherwise.

---

Quote:

---

Silversoul said:
For those who don't remember Joycelyn Elders, she lost her job as Surgeon General under Clinton for daring to suggest that masturbation might be a normal, healthy part of human sexuality(think of her as the anti-Christine O'Donnell).

---

How fuckin' crazy is it that we still have to put up with this kind of religious bullying?

The collision between facts and Christianity is ugly as fuck.
Fortunately, only one can win in the end, and we all know which one it's gonna be
But god damn, it sure is taking a long time.