Home | Community | Message Board

Kratom Eye
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: OlympusMyco.com Quality Agar Plates for Cultivators   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale

Jump to first unread post Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | Next >  [ show all ]
Offlinerealfuzzhead
Male User Gallery


Registered: 03/03/10
Posts: 10,783
Loc: above the smog layer Flag
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: Official Proposition 19 Discussion [Re: realfuzzhead]
    #13349872 - 10/17/10 08:10 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

:megacrankey:

jesus christ, do you see that guy? he smokes weed and is against it, you sir are worse then the sheep eating up the governments propoganda.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblecacharstar
Strange is good...
Male


Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4,014
Loc: The West Coast
Re: Official Proposition 19 Discussion [Re: laserpig]
    #13349901 - 10/17/10 08:18 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

laserpig said:
FUCK your "industry" you goddamn selfish prick.
I have nothing to say to you.





My industry?  :ilold:





It is alright to disagree with me but to disrespect me that is another story.  Fuck what is the point of having a democracy of we are not allowed to have An opinion


This will be bad for california.  Can you not see the path this will take?  You will see.  So what you want to smoke weed legally.  Well guess what prop 19 wont legalize weed.  If anything it will make it harder to get it legalized on a national level.  It would be better to first change the national law with a prop that allows the states to do as they wish with it but for cali to undermine the federal policies on marijuana will only make it worse.  Fuck we fought a civil war over states rights and guess who lost...    Fucking hate on me but don't forget to vote.  It is in your hands.

And yes I smoke weed and am agents this prop and so are many of the ppl I know that are in The industry   

My industry :rofl2:


--------------------
:irishtoast:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblecacharstar
Strange is good...
Male


Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4,014
Loc: The West Coast
Re: Official Proposition 19 Discussion [Re: scienceguy]
    #13349916 - 10/17/10 08:21 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

scienceguy said:
Beer is legal, and the GOOD brewers still make money...

Competition is only scary when you're bad at what you do.  :wink:




Words.


--------------------
:irishtoast:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinescienceguy
Instrument
Male


Registered: 11/27/09
Posts: 1,983
Loc: One Mile High... Flag
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
Re: Official Proposition 19 Discussion [Re: cacharstar] * 1
    #13349929 - 10/17/10 08:24 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

"The Industry" is scared that they might have to figure out a way to be more profitable, or give up the exorbitant profits they've enjoyed as a result of growing one of the easiest plants to cultivate.

I'm sorry you're not creative enough to learn how to make it work (there are many ways to make weed a profitable living, especially if it was legal) or to get another job, but I don't see how that shortcoming on your part makes you think you should be party to continuing prohibition and negatively affecting the rights of others.

Shame on you.

:nonono:


--------------------
"Freedom starts between the ears."

Edward Abbey

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblecacharstar
Strange is good...
Male


Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4,014
Loc: The West Coast
Re: Official Proposition 19 Discussion [Re: scienceguy]
    #13349955 - 10/17/10 08:32 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

my argument agenst prop 19 is purly a wording issue. The prop is not perfect and will cause many problems. hate on me all you want but I will not back down on this.


Here is a good article.

Quote:

Arguments Against Proposition 19: Why the Marijuana Initiative is Bad for California
by Rich Deem
Introduction Prop 19 Harmless?
Proposition 19 (Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act 2010) has been billed as a way to save tax payer money for law enforcement of "harmless" marijuana use and provide extra tax revenue for state and local governments. Many of the claims by proponents of Prop 19 are blatantly false.

Rich Deem
Marijuana (cannabis) is the most widely used illegal drug in many developed countries.1 California's Proposition 19, the Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act 2010 (RCTCA) to be voted on this fall by the citizens of California, will decide whether marijuana will become legalized for cultivation, transportation and personal use by adults 21 years of age and older. If passed, this will be the first legalization of marijuana use for non-medical reasons in the United States.

What Prop 19 would doProposition 19 legalizes the personal cultivation (up to 25 square feet) and use and transportation of marijuana (up to one ounce).2 Of course, 25 square feet of marijuana plants produces much more than one ounce of marijuana. Although the initiative provides penalties for adults (over 18 years old) providing marijuana to minors, there is nothing in the law that prohibits minors from growing and providing marijuana to each other. Presumably their parents could be held liable, although it would have to be proven that they provided the marijuana initially.

Protected class of usersProposition 19 establishes a dangerous legal precedent by establishing marijuana use as a protected class under the law:

No person shall be punished, fined, discriminated against, or be denied any right or privilege for lawfully engaging in any conduct permitted by this Act or authorized pursuant to Section 11301 of this Act. Provided however, that the existing right of an employer to address consumption that actually impairs job performance by an employee shall not be affected.2

No on Prop 19Employers will be unable to prevent marijuana use by their employees unless they can prove that such use impairs job performance. Exactly how they would prove that marijuana use impairs job performance would be difficult, at best. It should be noted that alcohol abuse is not a protected class, whereas proposition 19 would create such a protected class for marijuana users.

Loss of federal grantsProposition 19 creates a state law that conflicts with federal drug laws. On the surface, this does not seem to be a big deal, since President Obama has stated that he won't enforce the federal law in California. However, there is another issue that could cause the loss of billions of dollars to the state. Public contracts and grants require grantees to effectively enforce the drug-free workplace requirements (which includes marijuana use) outlined by the federal government's Federal Workplace Act of 1988. Not only may schools lose their federal grants, but medical research institutions, including the one for which I work (Cedars-Sinai Medical Center), could lose millions of dollars annually.

Rights of property owners?The language of the initiative is unclear about the rights of property owners who rent to others. Section 11300 (a) provides that "cultivation on leased or rented property may be subject to approval from the owner of the property" (emphasis added).2 Since this provision does not state "shall be subject to approval," it is unclear if property owner approval is required. Property owners will be at the mercy of the courts' interpretation of this section, in light of the establishment of marijuana use as a protected class, if they attempt to block marijuana cultivation on their own property.

"Regulate and control and tax"?The title of Proposition 19, "the Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act 2010" implies that marijuana is going to be regulated and controlled by the initiative. In fact, the law provides for no regulation or control, but leaves it up to local governments to initiate such controls and or regulations. In addition, there are no provisions to tax marijuana cultivation or use in the initiative. Instead, such taxation, if it ever happens will be left to local governments. In fact, a provision of the initiative specifically prevents the stat of California from taxing marijuana sales any more than the usual sales tax,3 in contrast to cigarettes and liquor. Since the enforcement of locally enacted taxation will be next to impossible, there will never be any significant revenue produced through this initiative.

Major supporters will profitMuch of the financial support for Proposition 19 comes from Richard Lee, who runs "Oaksterdam University," which teaches "students" the "fine arts" of cannabis growing, and S.K. Seymour LLC, a Medical Cannabis Provider, who would profit immensely through the estimated 90% drop in costs of marijuana, as supplies increase dramatically. There has been virtually no grassroots financial support for Prop 19.4

Adverse health effectsAs a recreational drug, marijuana is not quite as benign as most of its proponents would claim. Heavy marijuana use results in long-term effects on the brain, including lower responses in those areas which are affected by THC. Although users are able to compensate somewhat through the use of other brain areas, the long term effects of this damage, as users age, has not been determined. This damage may be responsible for impairments noted in short-term and long-term memory, along with a host of possible other psychiatric illnesses. A proportion of marijuana users become addicted and suffer from classic withdrawal symptoms upon abstinence. For a minority of users, marijuana is a gateway drug, and they proceed to use and abuse more powerful psychostimulants. Besides its effects upon the brain, marijuana use can lead to increased risks for respiratory cancers and may have some adverse cardiovascular and cerebrovascular effects in some users. Marijuana smoke has been placed on the California Proposition 65 list of carcinogenic materials, as required by California law for materials proven to cause cancer.5 Marijuana use during pregnancy has been shown to result in lower child intelligence, while increasing the incidence of mental health problems. The idea that marijuana is a harmless recreational pastime has been disproved through continuing scientific research. More information and documentation of the adverse health effects of marijuana use is available in a review of the current scientific literature.

Social costsMarijuana UseAlthough marijuana use does not universally negatively impact all individual's health, it will result in increased health care and mental health costs resulting from increased marijuana use and abuse among Californians.
6
How do we know marijuana use will increase if Prop 19 is passed? The map to the left shows the percentage of the population that use marijuana throughout the state of California. Marijuana use is nearly double in the northern counties of the state, where marijuana cultivation is much higher than in other counties. As a result of increase availability of marijuana should Proposition 19 pass, the number of people driving under the influence of marijuana will also increase dramatically, as it has in Europe, since its legalization there. In addition, there is no THC blood standard for what constitutes "driving under the influence" of marijuana, so police will fine it difficult to enforce marijuana DUI arrests. The cost in terms of increased deaths from automobile accidents could be in the hundreds to thousands of lives lost. What are they thinking? The American Academy of Pediatrics opposes the legalization of marijuana, because of increased likely abuse by adolescents.


7





Whatever you say is within your right.


--------------------
:irishtoast:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinescienceguy
Instrument
Male


Registered: 11/27/09
Posts: 1,983
Loc: One Mile High... Flag
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
Re: Official Proposition 19 Discussion [Re: cacharstar]
    #13349985 - 10/17/10 08:42 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I say that's some pussy shit.  The time for action is now.  Nobody said it would be easy, but I can guarantee it will be worth it.  It's not going to be perfect at first, but how long are you willing to wait for the perfect bill, and how many more people's lives do you want to be complicit in destroying by upholding the ideas of incredibly rich prohibitionists, profiting even more than you on your selfishness?


--------------------
"Freedom starts between the ears."

Edward Abbey

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelaserpig
Weedmaster_P

Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 7,468
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Official Proposition 19 Discussion [Re: cacharstar] * 2
    #13349996 - 10/17/10 08:45 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

cacharstar said:
It is alright to disagree with me but to disrespect me that is another story.



Why should I respect you when your attitudes are blatantly selfish and immoral?

Prop 19 is the first step in a legalization process.
It's not perfect, and it was never meant to be.
It was intentionally written to be as conservative as possible, so that it has a chance of actually passing.
Once it's passed, we build from there.

You made it abundantly clear in your original post that your reasons for being against 19 are a matter of you being comfy in your little niche in the medical marijuana system.
Yes, 19 might rock your boat a little, but this is a matter of the greater good.
Legalization, no matter how or when it happens, IS going to take some of the air out from under the wings of the current medical marijuana system -- but that is only because the current system is a loophole for thousands of people to dodge the law.
Without needing to perform that dodge, obviously less people will, and your little bubble gets deflated some.
Fucking deal with it.

Your comfy lifestyle is not worth continuing to send thousands of people to jail for the cultivation or distribution of a plant.


--------------------
Weedmaster P knows the truth.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinescienceguy
Instrument
Male


Registered: 11/27/09
Posts: 1,983
Loc: One Mile High... Flag
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
Re: Official Proposition 19 Discussion [Re: laserpig]
    #13350022 - 10/17/10 08:52 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I'm a medical grower, and I still support this bill.  I'd rather make my money growing fields of hemp for food, clothing, and fuel than weed anyway.


--------------------
"Freedom starts between the ears."

Edward Abbey

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleniteowl
GrandPaw
Male User Gallery


Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc: Flag
Re: Official Proposition 19 Discussion [Re: cacharstar]
    #13350088 - 10/17/10 09:12 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

cacharstar said:
In my opinion prop 19 will be horrible to the industry.




That is one of the MOST retarded things I've heard today.

Please show me ONE example of a free market causing quality/availability to go down.

Quote:

I will vote no on prop 19 and I urge you to do so as well.  Protect the industry.



:facepalm:

Your not worth the bullet it would take to end your miserable existence :nonono:


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblecacharstar
Strange is good...
Male


Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4,014
Loc: The West Coast
Re: Official Proposition 19 Discussion [Re: niteowl]
    #13350359 - 10/17/10 10:25 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Free market.  We are talking about an illegal substance there is no free martket.



If prop 19 passes many people will apply for licenses and start to grow.  The price will go down and the market will be flooded with average cheep weed.  Not bad for the consumer I agree.  But my point is it will still be federally illegal and not one defence of medical reasons has held up in federal court so you think a state law will help your defence.  Yea it sux that a plant is illegal.  Put your feelings aside for a moment.  I want weed to be legal.  Not semi legal. this will be great for the average pot smoker but for the state as a whole it will be a mess. Who will regulate it?  It is left up to the counties to regulate and tax it: that is a mess.  And furthermore how can you pay taxes on weed?  Are you going to put on your federal income statement profits from illegal marijuana production?  You want to set a precedence I understand that. But it won't work. 

I can't be the only person on this forum that sees the consequences of this bill.  Perhaps they are smarter then me to come on to a board full of pot smokers and come out against the bill.  Oh well hate all you want. But if you live in cali and the feds revoke welfare don't come to me...


--------------------
:irishtoast:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelaserpig
Weedmaster_P

Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 7,468
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Official Proposition 19 Discussion [Re: cacharstar] * 5
    #13350365 - 10/17/10 10:28 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

All the problems you point out are real.
BUT THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO DO IT.

There will never come a day when the president waves a wand and suddenly everything is perfect.
It's going to be a struggle all the way, and it has to start in the states.
This is how it starts. If we don't get it started, it will never be finished.


--------------------
Weedmaster P knows the truth.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblecacharstar
Strange is good...
Male


Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4,014
Loc: The West Coast
Re: Official Proposition 19 Discussion [Re: laserpig]
    #13350403 - 10/17/10 10:42 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

laserpig said:
There will never come a day when the president waves a wand and suddenly everything is perfect.
It's going to be a struggle all the way, and it has to start in the states.
This is how it starts. If we don't get it started, it will never be finished.





I understand.  But unless we start a campaign on the national level, there is no change.  you know weed is legal in Alaska right?  But it borders no other states so it does not effect the union as a whole. And weed is basically legal now here. who in cali has yet to pay the 35 dollars for a card? 

To be honest I just don't like that fucker Richard Lee that started this whole thing.  It is all about profits and getting him a crop of warehouse in Oakland.  He could care less about us.  He approached Oakland city council and offered to pay a 30% tax on sales if they would cap the number of clubs in Oakland. And if this takes hold, who do you think will come in and take over?  Big business.


--------------------
:irishtoast:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelaserpig
Weedmaster_P

Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 7,468
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Official Proposition 19 Discussion [Re: cacharstar]
    #13350412 - 10/17/10 10:46 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

A national campaign is impossible without real action being taken in the states.

My attitude here is basically that beggars can't be choosers.
Other people think that if we don't pass 19 this year, another bill will come around next year, which we can somehow guarantee will be even better.
I don't have that faith.
IMO if 19 gets shot down, it could up to a decade before anything like it comes up again.
I am not willing to wait that long.
It would be far faster to pass an imperfect bill, and work upwards from there.


--------------------
Weedmaster P knows the truth.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleniteowl
GrandPaw
Male User Gallery


Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc: Flag
Re: Official Proposition 19 Discussion [Re: cacharstar]
    #13350421 - 10/17/10 10:49 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Laserpig is right. You crying because you may loose a bit of money is selfish and greedy.

:boo:

Prop 19 is the best thing that could ever happen if you want it to become 'fully legal'.

Small steps man.

This is the best chance for weed to become legal EVER ...
and for you to oppose legalization because of the reasons you mentioned is sad.

Make it legal first then hammer out the fine details, its not a hard concept.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblecacharstar
Strange is good...
Male


Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4,014
Loc: The West Coast
Re: Official Proposition 19 Discussion [Re: niteowl]
    #13350428 - 10/17/10 10:52 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

So not to sound rude but it is like saying because this fat aids infested chick wants to fuck and I want to get laid, I  will look over the obvious turn off and fuck her because I have no guarantee another chick will come along. 


:shrug:
Quote:

niteowl said:
Laserpig is right. You crying because you may loose a bit of money is selfish and greedy.

:boo:

Prop 19 is the best thing that could ever happen if you want it to become 'fully legal'.

Small steps man.

This is the best chance for weed to become legal EVER ...
and for you to oppose legalization because of the reasons you mentioned is sad.

Make it legal first then hammer out the fine details, its not a hard concept.




We all might lose.  Do you get federal grants to attent school?  Can you see where this is going?


--------------------
:irishtoast:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinelaserpig
Weedmaster_P

Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 7,468
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
Re: Official Proposition 19 Discussion [Re: cacharstar]
    #13350441 - 10/17/10 10:56 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

No, because AIDS is permanent, and the potentially damaging parts of prop 19 are not.
As I keep trying to get across to you, this is a STARTING POINT, not the end of the process.
If 19 passes, it will lend enormous momentum to the proponents of real legalization, and things will only get better from there.


--------------------
Weedmaster P knows the truth.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleniteowl
GrandPaw
Male User Gallery


Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc: Flag
Re: Official Proposition 19 Discussion [Re: cacharstar]
    #13350450 - 10/17/10 10:59 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Yea, I see it as the best chance EVER for a state to stand up to the federal government, and say .....

FUCK YOU !!!!
WE ARE GOING TO DO THIS BECAUSE IT NEEDS TO BE DONE !!!
THIS PLANT HAS BEEN ILLEGAL FOR FAR TOO LONG !!!

And your too chicken shit to do so because you may loose some profit :sad:


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblecacharstar
Strange is good...
Male


Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4,014
Loc: The West Coast
Re: Official Proposition 19 Discussion [Re: laserpig]
    #13350451 - 10/17/10 11:00 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

laserpig said:
No, because AIDS is permanent, and the potentially damaging parts of prop 19 are not.
As I keep trying to get across to you, this is a STARTING POINT, not the end of the process.
If 19 passes, it will lend enormous momentum to the proponents of real legalization, and things will only get better from there.





I hope you are right. I just see a mess in the makin


--------------------
:irishtoast:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblecacharstar
Strange is good...
Male


Registered: 11/13/08
Posts: 4,014
Loc: The West Coast
Re: Official Proposition 19 Discussion [Re: niteowl]
    #13350464 - 10/17/10 11:05 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

niteowl said:
Yea, I see it as the best chance EVER for a state to stand up to the federal government, and say .....

FUCK YOU !!!!

And your too chicken shit to do so because you may loose some profit :sad:




It is not about proffit. Btw thanks for rating me a 0 for my opnion.  Do you forget that we fought a civil war over states rights?  That wound has yet to heal.  Can't you see the path this can take?  It is not about me losing money, I'll just find another scheme.  This is about way more then that.


--------------------
:irishtoast:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleniteowl
GrandPaw
Male User Gallery


Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 16,291
Loc: Flag
Re: Official Proposition 19 Discussion [Re: cacharstar]
    #13350522 - 10/17/10 11:26 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

cacharstar said:
It is not about proffit.




Thats all you have bitched about so far.

Quote:

Do you forget that we fought a civil war over states rights?




WTF are you talking about?
Do I think we need to have a civil war over weed? No.
But I also think that the first state that has a chance to legalize weed should

Quote:

Can't you see the path this can take?




Yes, and its all good. This is a move in the RIGHT direction and you want to shit on it :nonono:


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: < Back | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: OlympusMyco.com Quality Agar Plates for Cultivators   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* What's your States Official Mushroom? California 1,383 11 02/01/10 09:23 AM
by Mchaggis
* hemp & marijuana: myths & realities eric_the_red 3,545 10 11/02/12 02:16 PM
by SARAtonin
* California is dead last in quality of life in the US.
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
Patlal 5,761 103 03/05/18 02:14 AM
by kent101
* missouri pot propositions lukeboots 2,209 3 11/05/04 05:14 PM
by Rebirtha
* EDC in 19 days, FULL LINE UP INSiDE, 3 hotel rooms & world famous Venice Beach. 40oz 1,375 9 06/09/05 03:51 PM
by 40oz
* Act To Protect Medical Marijuana Patients Now! John 1,570 4 07/05/04 09:15 PM
by John
* Let's talk about marijuana.
( 1 2 3 all )
GreatGigInTheSky 4,413 57 08/07/05 08:09 PM
by elaspeinreason
* Mom Allegedly Beats Sons Over Marijuana
( 1 2 all )
Vulture 2,313 20 03/26/08 02:30 AM
by Felinor

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Entire Staff
11,413 topic views. 1 members, 51 guests and 10 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.033 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 15 queries.