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OfflineD.M.T
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Eric Holder To Prosecute Distribution, Possession If Prop. 19 Passes [CA]
    #13341520 - 10/15/10 07:43 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)



SAN FRANCISCO — Attorney General Eric Holder is warning that the federal government will not look the other way, as it has with medical marijuana, if voters next month make California the first state to legalize pot.

Marijuana is illegal under federal law, which drug agents will "vigorously enforce" against anyone carrying, growing or selling it, Holder said.

The comments in a letter to ex-federal drug enforcement chiefs were the attorney general's most direct statement yet against Proposition 19 and set up another showdown with California over marijuana if the measure passes.

With Prop 19 leading in the polls, the letter also raised questions about the extent to which federal drug agents would go into communities across the state to catch small-time users and dealers, or whether they even had the resources to do it.

Medical marijuana users and experts were skeptical, saying there was little the federal government could do to slow the march to legalization.

"This will be the new industry," said Chris Nelson, 24, who smokes pot to ease recurring back pain and was lined up outside a San Francisco dispensary. "It's taxable new income. So many tourists will flock here like they go to Napa. This will become the new Amsterdam."

If the ballot measure passes, the state would regulate recreational pot use. Adults could possess up to one ounce of the drug and grow small gardens on private property. Local governments would decide whether to allow and tax sales.

The Justice Department remains committed to enforcing the Controlled Substances Act in all states, Holder said.

"We will vigorously enforce the CSA against those individuals and organizations that possess, manufacture or distribute marijuana for recreational use, even if such activities are permitted under state law," he wrote.

The letter was dated Wednesday and was obtained by The Associated Press.

Holder also said legalizing recreational marijuana would be a "significant impediment" to the government's joint efforts with state and local law enforcement to target drug traffickers, who often distribute pot alongside cocaine and other drugs.

The attorney general said the ballot measure's passage would "significantly undermine" efforts to keep California cites and towns safe.

Officials in Los Angeles County, where authorities have aggressively moved to tamp down on an explosion of medical marijuana dispensaries, vowed that they would still assist the federal government in drug investigations.

County Sheriff Lee Baca and District Attorney Steve Cooley said at a news conference that the law would be unenforceable because it is trumped by federal laws that prohibit marijuana cultivation and possession.

"We will continue as we are today regardless of whether it passes or doesn't pass," Baca said. His deputies don't and won't go after users in their homes, but public use of the drug will be targeted, he said.

Both gubernatorial candidates – Democrat Jerry Brown and Republican Meg Whitman – oppose Prop 19 and declined comment Friday.

The ex-Drug Enforcement Administration chiefs sent a letter to Holder in August calling on the Obama administration to sue California if Prop 19 passes. They said legalizing pot presented the same threat to federal authority as Arizona's recent immigration law.

In that case, Justice Department lawyers filed a lawsuit to block the enforcement of the law, saying that it infringed on federal powers to regulate immigration and therefore violated the U.S. Constitution. The case is now before a federal appeals court.

Experts say the two situations are not the same.

If Arizona wants to crack down on illegal immigration more strictly than the federal government, the U.S. can act to prevent police in the state from enforcing the law, said Robert Mikos, a Vanderbilt University law professor who studies the conflicts between state and federal marijuana laws.

If California prevents police from enforcing the stricter federal ban on marijuana, the Supreme Court has ruled that the federal government cannot order local law enforcement to act, he said.

It "is a very tough-sounding statement that the attorney general has issued, but it's more bark than bite," Mikos said.

"The same factors that limited the federal government's influence over medical marijuana would probably have an even bigger influence over its impact on recreational marijuana," Mikos said, citing not enough agents to focus on small-time violators.

Federal drug agents have long concentrated on big-time drug traffickers and left street-level dealers and users to local and state law enforcement. As police departments began enforcing California's medical marijuana law, the DEA only sporadically jumped in to bust medical users and sellers that local law enforcement was no longer targeting.

Allen Hopper, a drug law reform expert at the American Civil Liberties Union in Northern California, predicted that federal agents would selectively crack down on marijuana growers and merchants instead of going after every Californian who uses pot.

"They don't have the resources to flood the state with DEA agents to be drug cops," he said.

Nearly all arrests for marijuana crimes are made at the state level. Of more than 847,000 marijuana-related arrests nationwide in 2008, for example, just over 6,300 suspects were booked by federal law enforcement, or fewer than 1 percent.

Consequently, the fight over legalization may end up the same way medical marijuana did, experts said.

When Californians approved their first-in-the-nation medical marijuana law in 1996, Clinton administration officials vowed a harsh crackdown. But nearly 15 years later, California's billion-dollar medical marijuana industry is thriving.

During the Bush administration, retail pot dispensaries across the state faced regular raids from federal anti-drug agents. Their owners were sometimes sentenced to decades in prison for drug trafficking.

Yet the medical marijuana industry still grew, and it has expanded even more since Holder said last year that federal law enforcement would defer to state laws on using it for medicinal purposes.

Besides California, 13 other states and the District of Columbia have legalized medical marijuana in recent years.

At the San Francisco Medical Cannabis Club, where you can buy marijuana-filled carrot cake and lollipops, manager James Kyne said the federal government would just be continuing "an endless cycle" with little positive effect.

Holder "is opening a bigger can of worms," Kyne said. "I really think the AG and the federal government could put our tax dollars to better use."

___
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/15/eric-holder-to-prosecute-_n_764153.html

Edited by D.M.T (10/15/10 07:50 PM)

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Offlinexxking0mmxx
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Re: Eric Holder To Prosecute Distribution, Possession If Prop. 19 Passes [CA] [Re: D.M.T]
    #13341641 - 10/15/10 08:23 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

To which norml . org responded: So what? Of course the Obama administration is wedded to America’s failed prohibition policies. After all, it is their policy.

And of course the voters of California cannot change the federal Controlled Substances Act via a statewide vote. Nobody ever claimed that they could.

However, here’s what is noteworthy. Despite the claims of various Prop. 19 opponents that the measure is in ‘direct conflict‘ with federal law or is somehow ‘unconstitutional‘ and would thus be ‘preempted’ by the Feds, at no time today did the federal government challenge the fact that Californians have the legal right to determine their own marijuana policies. Rather, the federal government simply reinforced that they remain of the opinion that marijuana ought to be criminally outlawed — a position that is out-of-step with the American public’s sentiment.

Furthermore, Californians have been here before, and not just in 1996. Seventy-eight years ago this November, Californians overwhelmingly voted for the repeal of a morally, socially, and economically failed public policy – alcohol prohibition. Voters did not wait for the federal government to act; they took the matter into their own hands. And they will do so again this November.

Finally, it goes without saying that the federal justice department — verbal bluster aside — lacks both the resources and the political will to take on the role of targeting and prosecuting the estimated 3.3 million Californians who are presently consuming cannabis for non-medical purposes. These duties are relegated to state, not federal, law enforcement officials. Just as medical marijuana has existed as a legal market in California, in obvious violation of federal Controlled Substances Act, Prop. 19 will too remain the law of the land post-November 2.

Which ultimately begs the question, “If a government’s legitimate use of state power is based on the consent of the governed, then at what point does marijuana prohibition — in particular the federal enforcement of prohibition — become illegitimate public policy?” Perhaps it is time to ask President Obama and United States Attorney General Eric Holder?


--------------------
"Nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced.
It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this."
~~ Albert Einstein, "My First Impression of the USA" (1921).

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InvisibleFractalDust
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Re: Eric Holder To Prosecute Distribution, Possession If Prop. 19 Passes [CA] [Re: D.M.T]
    #13341818 - 10/15/10 09:05 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

It's a dog and pony show.


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Offlineguest1
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Re: Eric Holder To Prosecute Distribution, Possession If Prop. 19 Passes [CA] [Re: xxking0mmxx]
    #13341948 - 10/15/10 09:34 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

‎If you look at the opposition to marijuana policy reform in this country, it is driven almost entirely by people whose jobs are dependent on arresting and prosecuting individuals for marijuana-related offenses.


:lol:

That is like saying "We may be making life miserable for our people, but at least we are profiting off their misery".:nono:

Edited by guest1 (10/16/10 02:24 PM)

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InvisibleAnastomosisJihad
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Re: Eric Holder To Prosecute Distribution, Possession If Prop. 19 Passes [CA] [Re: guest1]
    #13342241 - 10/15/10 10:49 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

The cops get to keep your car if they find pot on you. They sell them at auction and use the money for overtime pay, and helicopters. They can seize your farm, and sell it at auction if they find pot growing there. They sell property at auction. Pot is easy money for cops.


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come together

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Offlinekundalini1123
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Re: Eric Holder To Prosecute Distribution, Possession If Prop. 19 Passes [CA] [Re: AnastomosisJihad]
    #13342932 - 10/16/10 06:10 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Honestly, to me(and maybe the n20 is clouding my brain right now) it seems like it's the federal government that needs to go, I mean I won't sit here and pretend to know a lot about politics, but when the federal government has an agenda other than the will of the people, it raises alot of red flags in my book. The feds(in this situation) honestly remind me of a little kid who didn't get his way, to say if this thing passes that you are just going to go against the will of the people anyway is sickening.

how did the federal government's voice get to be bigger than the peoples? I mean if your government won't work for the people then they have no business existing as far as I am concerned.

But then again I'm just a rambling stoner what do I know lol?

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Offlinecokane
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Re: Eric Holder To Prosecute Distribution, Possession If Prop. 19 Passes [CA] [Re: xxking0mmxx]
    #13343035 - 10/16/10 07:40 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:



Furthermore, Californians have been here before, and not just in 1996. Seventy-eight years ago this November, Californians overwhelmingly voted for the repeal of a morally, socially, and economically failed public policy – alcohol prohibition. Voters did not wait for the federal government to act; they took the matter into their own hands. And they will do so again this November.




So true, history repeats itself all the time. I hope if this passe's in CA that other states will let their people vote pot legalization.

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Offlinefungivore
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Re: Eric Holder To Prosecute Distribution, Possession If Prop. 19 Passes [CA] [Re: kundalini1123]
    #13343044 - 10/16/10 07:48 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

kundalini1123 said:
Honestly, to me(and maybe the n20 is clouding my brain right now) it seems like it's the federal government that needs to go, I mean I won't sit here and pretend to know a lot about politics, but when the federal government has an agenda other than the will of the people, it raises alot of red flags in my book. The feds(in this situation) honestly remind me of a little kid who didn't get his way, to say if this thing passes that you are just going to go against the will of the people anyway is sickening.

how did the federal government's voice get to be bigger than the peoples? I mean if your government won't work for the people then they have no business existing as far as I am concerned.

But then again I'm just a rambling stoner what do I know lol?





HELL YEAH!!!


--------------------
"His job is to shed light
And not to master."

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InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: Eric Holder To Prosecute Distribution, Possession If Prop. 19 Passes [CA] [Re: D.M.T]
    #13343074 - 10/16/10 08:13 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I dunno. If it is the will of the people, then the Feds should leave Californians alone. I mean, it is supposed to be a government of the people, by the people and for the people....

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InvisibleAnastomosisJihad
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Re: Eric Holder To Prosecute Distribution, Possession If Prop. 19 Passes [CA] [Re: Le_Canard]
    #13343275 - 10/16/10 09:44 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

But drugs are baddd!!! The moral argument is the only thing that matters. Getting high is bad, you will go to hell for it. The government can't allow Californians to ruin their lives and go to hell. That would be immoral.


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come together

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InvisibleSuperD
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Re: Eric Holder To Prosecute Distribution, Possession If Prop. 19 Passes [CA] [Re: kundalini1123]
    #13343425 - 10/16/10 10:35 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

kundalini1123 said:
Honestly, to me(and maybe the n20 is clouding my brain right now) it seems like it's the federal government that needs to go, I mean I won't sit here and pretend to know a lot about politics, but when the federal government has an agenda other than the will of the people, it raises alot of red flags in my book. The feds(in this situation) honestly remind me of a little kid who didn't get his way, to say if this thing passes that you are just going to go against the will of the people anyway is sickening.

how did the federal government's voice get to be bigger than the peoples? I mean if your government won't work for the people then they have no business existing as far as I am concerned.

But then again I'm just a rambling stoner what do I know lol?




Agreed.  We need to wipe the slate clean.  I don't see how else we're going to fix this mess we've found ourselves in.  We threaten to boot the feds, and they threaten to take away our precious federal funding for various programs.  It isn't right.  The reason they can offer funding in the first place is because we pay them through our tax dollars.  Let's cut the middle man out and fund crap for ourselves.  If I could choose what to fund and not to fund, I'd eliminate all these ridiculous marijuana eradication task forces to begin with.  I'm not saying I'm a pro at money management, but the federal government has proven beyond all reasonable doubt that they can't manage our tax dollars responsibly.  This is a fact everyone is fully aware of yet no one does anything about.


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:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

Edited by SuperD (10/16/10 10:44 AM)

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OfflineD.M.T
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Re: Eric Holder To Prosecute Distribution, Possession If Prop. 19 Passes [CA] [Re: kundalini1123]
    #13343493 - 10/16/10 10:57 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

kundalini1123 said:
Honestly, to me(and maybe the n20 is clouding my brain right now) it seems like it's the federal government that needs to go, I mean I won't sit here and pretend to know a lot about politics, but when the federal government has an agenda other than the will of the people, it raises alot of red flags in my book. The feds(in this situation) honestly remind me of a little kid who didn't get his way, to say if this thing passes that you are just going to go against the will of the people anyway is sickening.

how did the federal government's voice get to be bigger than the peoples? I mean if your government won't work for the people then they have no business existing as far as I am concerned.

But then again I'm just a rambling stoner what do I know lol?



I believe someone could argue that the federal government is breaking the 10th Amendment in this case as well. Maybe someone else more well-versed in the Constitution than I could clarify this?

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InvisibleRaw
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Re: Eric Holder To Prosecute Distribution, Possession If Prop. 19 Passes [CA] [Re: D.M.T]
    #13343541 - 10/16/10 11:12 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

If this passes, Probably will if Californians show up to the polls.

This makes me want to ...

Get 19 of my friends...
Go to Cali...
And make sure all our neighbors have a garden...
It is just a plant...

States rights!

Legalize, tax, and smoke a bowl with your neighbor.

Maybe get a place up in Napa... Wine and Bubblehash?


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InvisibleStonehenge
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Re: Eric Holder To Prosecute Distribution, Possession If Prop. 19 Passes [CA] [Re: Raw]
    #13343626 - 10/16/10 11:44 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Obumble and the feds are corrupt rulers who have usurped the rightful powers of the people and subverted the constitution. Nothing in the constitution gives the feds the right to say what you can use in your own home. The worthless supreme court has interpreted the commerce clause to mean the feds have unlimited authority. This is nonsense and wrong.

It's time for a revolution!!!


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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InvisibleSuperD
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Re: Eric Holder To Prosecute Distribution, Possession If Prop. 19 Passes [CA] [Re: Stonehenge]
    #13343652 - 10/16/10 11:50 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Stonehenge said:
It's time for a revolution!!!




Sign me up.


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:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

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Offlinedip
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Re: Eric Holder To Prosecute Distribution, Possession If Prop. 19 Passes [CA] [Re: Stonehenge]
    #13343671 - 10/16/10 11:54 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

My take on this development, not that anyone asked, is that this is political posturing plain and simple.  It is political suicide right now for this administration to give a pass on what may be happening in Cali, having already gone after Arizona for its apparently unconstitutional handling of the illegal immigrant issue.

So while I don't like the tone of Holders announcement, I do believe its a "bark is worse than the bite" thing, a tiptoeing on a tightrope act designed to placate the rabid anti-druggers, while knowing all along that the Feds don't have the resources nor will to really enforce.

Not exactly admirable, but if you are honest and try to understand the politics at work in this country, could make the most sense of the available options.

dip

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InvisibleGreen_T
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Re: Eric Holder To Prosecute Distribution, Possession If Prop. 19 Passes [CA] [Re: dip]
    #13343699 - 10/16/10 12:04 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

If they lay a hand on anybody for legal pot in California, the dems will have dug their own grave (political loss) for 2012.


--------------------

"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson

Legalize Meth | Drug War Victims

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Invisibleripten
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Re: Eric Holder To Prosecute Distribution, Possession If Prop. 19 Passes [CA] [Re: D.M.T]
    #13343919 - 10/16/10 12:51 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

the feds weren't even able to stop medical marijuana, what makes them think they are going to be able to stop wide spread recreational use :laugh2:

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OfflineRebirtha
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Re: Eric Holder To Prosecute Distribution, Possession If Prop. 19 Passes [CA] [Re: ripten]
    #13344013 - 10/16/10 01:11 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Exactly! They really don't have the funding to stop this.

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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Registered: 05/16/03
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Re: Eric Holder To Prosecute Distribution, Possession If Prop. 19 Passes [CA] [Re: Rebirtha]
    #13344043 - 10/16/10 01:16 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

This is true. In 70 years, they haven't even managed to put a dent on the illegal trade of weed. Besides, who the Hell are they to say what we can and cannot put into our bodies? :mad:

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