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 Lemon
SUPREME ROBOTOVERLORD
Registered: 02/25/03
Posts: 8
Last seen: 21 years, 1 month
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 "No Blood for Oil" sure looks good on a poster 
#1333260 - 02/25/03 03:38 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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However, I completely fail to see the link between the removal of Saddam from power and the creation of a democracy in the Middle East with the energy self interests of the United States. Could anyone explain this one to me? I doubt there is any rational support behind these statements.
I am a pro-war Bush republican. I believe in a world FREE OF TOTALITARIANISM AND DICTATORSHIP. If you are anti-war, then you support the oppression of the Iraqi people under the dictatorship of Saddam Hussain. Thousands of years have shown us that struggle is a prerequisite to freedom. Don't feel that just because you are liberal, you need to be anti-war.
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Demon
A Drug AgainstWar
Registered: 06/18/00
Posts: 457
Loc: j00/2 m07h3/2
Last seen: 20 years, 1 month
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 Re: "No Blood for Oil" sure looks good on a poster [Re: Lemon]
#1333264 - 02/25/03 03:42 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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My belife is that Bush's interests are in the control over oil in the middle east, the economic boom caused by the war, and not the freeing of Iraq's people. However, if this thing passes, and Bush moves on to attempt to free other Totalitarian countries, then maybe I'll consider believing that his intrests are in freedome and not money and nuclear control.
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"Sex is like a gun.. you aim, you shoot, you run" - Aerosmith
Come visit SacredShrooms.org!
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Anonymous
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Re: "No Blood for Oil" sure looks good on a poster [Re: Lemon]
#1333266 - 02/25/03 03:42 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Actually, you dont know what the fuck anyone IS, or THINKS.
And, anti-war does NOT MEAN pro saddam. It means ANTI WAR
OR WE DONT WANT PEOPLE TO DIE FOR GW AND HIS PERSONAL AGENDA.
If you want a world free of totalitarianism and dictatorship, you'll be voting democractic in 2004, right? ;]
Also, many liberals and leftists, who are just as blind as right wind conservatists, will not give up the idea that GW wants to declare war in Iraq for oil.
To say that it is not part of their thinking would be ridiculous, though..
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Demon
A Drug AgainstWar
Registered: 06/18/00
Posts: 457
Loc: j00/2 m07h3/2
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Re: "No Blood for Oil" sure looks good on a poster [Re: Demon]
#1333271 - 02/25/03 03:44 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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And also I believe that Repulicanism is not = to pro freedome. After all, the majority of republicans are pro drug prohibition. If Bush wants to establish freedome, he should start in his own country. 
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"Sex is like a gun.. you aim, you shoot, you run" - Aerosmith
Come visit SacredShrooms.org!
Edited by Demon (02/25/03 03:45 AM)
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Lemon
SUPREME ROBOTOVERLORD
Registered: 02/25/03
Posts: 8
Last seen: 21 years, 1 month
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Re: "No Blood for Oil" sure looks good on a poster [Re: Demon]
#1333278 - 02/25/03 03:50 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ok, again... I am asking HOW does this war have anything to do with oil. You are basically claiming that Bush wants to kill a bunch of Iraqis and then steal the oil. That sounds like complete nonsense to me. Can anyone please explain it in detail?
And I suppose you would have protested the American Revolution as well... just for the sake of being anti-war. Im sorry, but I believe in freedom, and the fight for freedom.
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Demon
A Drug AgainstWar
Registered: 06/18/00
Posts: 457
Loc: j00/2 m07h3/2
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Re: "No Blood for Oil" sure looks good on a poster [Re: Lemon]
#1333288 - 02/25/03 03:56 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Are you not aware of the fact that most of the petroleum products we buy at gas stations here in America come from oil in the middle east?
The American Revolution wasn't a smokescreen for greed and nuclear control.
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"Sex is like a gun.. you aim, you shoot, you run" - Aerosmith
Come visit SacredShrooms.org!
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 fadedpinkwings
Stranger
Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 120
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Re: "No Blood for Oil" sure looks good on a poster [Re: Lemon]
#1333305 - 02/25/03 04:04 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
And I suppose you would have protested the American Revolution as well... just for the sake of being anti-war. Im sorry, but I believe in freedom, and the fight for freedom.
You tell 'em lemon! Yeah , they would have said that freedom is not a good reason to die. thier slogan would have been something like: "No war for freedom". I cannot believe all of the brainwashed libbies. It is worse than I thought.
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I hope all bleeding hearts Die from bloodloss!!!!!
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Re: "No Blood for Oil" sure looks good on a poster [Re: Lemon]
#1333310 - 02/25/03 04:06 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Good question. You won't get any answers, though.
They're like the people who honestly believe that the US fought in Afghanistan not because bin Laden was based there, but because if they were to remove the Taliban from power there was a possibility that the next Afghani government would allow an American company to be part of an international consortium which would build a pipeline across Afghanistan.
These people apparently believe that if bin Laden had been based in Yemen or the Sudan and the government of Yemen or Sudan refused to cooperate in his capture, Bush would just have said, "Oh, that's all right then. Let us know when you change your mind."
If there were no oil in Iraq, but lots of gold, they would be saying, "It's all about the gold!" If there were no oil or gold, but lots of uranium, they would be saying, "It's all about the uranium!" If there were no strategic resources whatsoever, they would be saying, "It's all about exploiting little brown people in American footwear and clothing sweatshops!"
pinky
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Anonymous
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Re: "No Blood for Oil" sure looks good on a poster [Re: fadedpinkwings]
#1333311 - 02/25/03 04:06 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Freedom is worth dying for. We are not preserving freedom by attacking Iraq. Only a blind patriot could truly believe something like that.
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Rono
DSYSB since '01
Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,259
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: "No Blood for Oil" sure looks good on a poster [Re: Lemon]
#1333319 - 02/25/03 04:11 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have used the phrase ?it?s all about the oil? so many times that I have worn it out. I do have the evidence to make this claim without it being just an empty maxim. The era of cheap and abundant oil is coming to a close...
Many experts predict that demand will outrun supply in 10 years time. So to put it simply, it is inevitable that world oil prices will dramatically rise.
The benefit of controlling the world?s biggest oil supplies will be greater than it has ever been. Iraq contains the second largest oil supply on earth, at least 112 billion barrels of proven reserves, one tenth of the world?s supply, with some suggesting it is even more plentiful than number one in the world, Saudi Arabia.
I think the script is set for America to turn on its Saudi ally in a matter of years because the Saudis have threatened to raise their oil prices and so an extra source of oil is a necessity for America to retain its superpower status. A puppet regime in Iraq would pump three times the amount of oil than current levels, as reported by Newsweek .
The fall in supply from Venezuela has also hit hard, which is why the CIA have attempted on more than one occasion to overthrow Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez. In April 2001, a report by the Baker Institute for Public Policy revealed the Bush administration?s desperate urge to remove Saddam Hussein from the scene to protect their oil interests.
The report was commissioned by U.S. vice-president Dick Cheney. It read, ?The United States remains a prisoner of its energy dilemma. Iraq remains a destabilising influence to ... the flow of oil to international markets from the Middle East. Saddam Hussein has also demonstrated a willingness to threaten to use the oil weapon and to use his own export programme to manipulate oil markets. Therefore the US should conduct an immediate policy review toward Iraq including military, energy, economic and political/ diplomatic assessments. The United States should then develop an integrated strategy with key allies in Europe and Asia, and with key countries in the Middle East, to restate goals with respect to Iraqi policy and to restore a cohesive coalition of key allies.?
The Baker Institute was set up by former secretary of state under daddy Bush, James Baker, another key man in the arming of Iraq and numerous other criminal activities. The advisors for the report included Kenneth Lay, the disgraced former chief executive of Enron, and a host of top oil company executives.
The Council on Foreign Relations were also involved in the proposals. The document presents a strategy to deploy United Nations weapons inspectors to disarm Iraq of any remaining arms and then to move in and take control of the oil within three to five years.
This is the exact course of events we saw unfold in late 2002 and into 2003. Remember, the dossier was released in April 2001 and so this clearly indicates that September 11 and the much repeated ?it?s a more dangerous world so we must take out Saddam? mantra is an outright lie.
The Sunday Herald commented that the document, ?fundamentally questions the motives behind the Bush administration's desire to take out Saddam Hussein and go to war with Iraq.? The Sydney Morning Herald of Australia made a similar conclusion , ?While the US now presses for "regime change" in Iraq, more than 18 months ago the report repeatedly emphasised its importance as an oil producer and the need to expand Iraqi production as soon as possible to meet projected oil shortages - shortages it said could be avoided only through increased production or conservation in the near-term.?
The report is a smoking gun and tells us that the agenda to take over the Iraqi oil fields was decided upon two or more years before the proposed invasion itself.
However, the White House still insisted it had not even considered what the consequences in the oil market would be from a war even as they were massing troops. Mainstream Indian analysts also went public to point out the oil agenda of the invasion of Iraq in September 2002, ?Sources said control over Iraq and its oil wealth would allow American firms to manipulate global market prices by deciding on production levels and to keep out countries like India, which is engaged in developing oil fields in that country.?
Even as people like Tony Blair were calling the ?alleged? oil agenda a conspiracy theory, the biggest newspapers in the world were reporting , ?A U.S.-led ouster of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein could open a bonanza for American oil companies long banished from Iraq, scuttling oil deals between Baghdad and Russia, France and other countries, and reshuffling world petroleum markets, according to industry officials and leaders of the Iraqi opposition.?
Former CIA director James R. Woolsey went on the record as saying that the oil windfall would be divvied up fairly between the nations that agreed to support the war.
And so it was no surprise that the first priority after the invasion of Iraq was to secure the oil fields...make sense?
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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
Edited by Rono (02/25/03 04:19 AM)
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fadedpinkwings
Stranger
Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 120
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Re: "No Blood for Oil" sure looks good on a poster [Re: ]
#1333320 - 02/25/03 04:11 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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You are wrong. Some people believe that in order for freedom to survive everyone must be liberated. I am one of those people. You are the one who is blind.
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I hope all bleeding hearts Die from bloodloss!!!!!
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fadedpinkwings
Stranger
Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 120
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Re: "No Blood for Oil" sure looks good on a poster [Re: Rono]
#1333325 - 02/25/03 04:13 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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It is one of the better conspiracy theories I have read.
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I hope all bleeding hearts Die from bloodloss!!!!!
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Rono
DSYSB since '01
Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,259
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: "No Blood for Oil" sure looks good on a poster [Re: fadedpinkwings]
#1333328 - 02/25/03 04:14 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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That's the best you can do?...more like conspiracy fact junior...
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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
Edited by Rono (02/25/03 04:18 AM)
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Anonymous
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Re: "No Blood for Oil" sure looks good on a poster [Re: fadedpinkwings]
#1333339 - 02/25/03 04:19 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Then wheres your bleeding heart for the North Koreans? Or the communist Chinese? Do you suggest we wage war on them as well? More american lives put at risk?
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fadedpinkwings
Stranger
Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 120
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Re: "No Blood for Oil" sure looks good on a poster [Re: ]
#1333346 - 02/25/03 04:24 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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My heart does not bleed for anyone.
One at a time asshat, One at a time.
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I hope all bleeding hearts Die from bloodloss!!!!!
Edited by fadedpinkwings (02/25/03 04:25 AM)
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silversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
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 Re: "No Blood for Oil" sure looks good on a poster [Re: Phred]
#1333350 - 02/25/03 04:26 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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I am not so naive as to think that oil is the only reason we're going into Iraq, but it would also be naive to think that it's not at least one of the reasons. This is not merely a war of pragmatism, as Bush is not a pragmatic man. It has partly to do with demonstrating our power to the Middle East and demanding their fear and respect. It is to some extent a part of a larger religious war on Islam(not necessarily in Bush's mind, but remember there are others in the White House pulling the strings). I think it also has something to do with Cold War nostalgia. Islam is the new communism and the Middle East is the new Soviet Union, except that none of them have nukes yet(as far as we know). The warmongers need an enemy to fight, and Iraq is an easier target than N. Korea.
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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire
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Eightball
whore consumer
Registered: 07/21/01
Posts: 3,013
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
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Re: "No Blood for Oil" sure looks good on a poster [Re: fadedpinkwings]
#1333354 - 02/25/03 04:27 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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hahahahhaha
invading iraq and afghanistan has nothing to do with freeing people.
just like how the civil war in the US was not for freeing slaves, that was just a political tactic.
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If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.
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Demon
A Drug AgainstWar
Registered: 06/18/00
Posts: 457
Loc: j00/2 m07h3/2
Last seen: 20 years, 1 month
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Re: "No Blood for Oil" sure looks good on a poster [Re: Rono]
#1333363 - 02/25/03 04:29 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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You are forgetting nuclear control. It's more about Bush wanting to control countries like N. Korea and Iraq's ability to have nuclear weapons. Next we will be attacking other less powerful countries for their nuclear arms. Bush has no testicles. he won't ask countries like China to disarm because he knows we can't fuck with them. They have too many people.
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"Sex is like a gun.. you aim, you shoot, you run" - Aerosmith
Come visit SacredShrooms.org!
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Eightball
whore consumer
Registered: 07/21/01
Posts: 3,013
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
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Re: "No Blood for Oil" sure looks good on a poster [Re: silversoul7]
#1333367 - 02/25/03 04:31 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
The warmongers need an enemy to fight, and Iraq is an easier target than N. Korea.
no, iraq is more profitable to control. NK would just be burning money without return. when we first invaded korea it was to suppress the spread of communism under the policey of containment. but now NK is a legitimate threat to many countries b/c of its nuke program yet the US still makes iraq the priority.
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If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.
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Rono
DSYSB since '01
Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,259
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: "No Blood for Oil" sure looks good on a poster [Re: Demon]
#1333373 - 02/25/03 04:33 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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You may be right Demon, but the question was what factor oil played. The Nuclear Issue may be another can of worms alltogether. Oil is most likely not the only issue, but it is my strong opinion that it is the main issue.
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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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fadedpinkwings
Stranger
Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 120
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Re: "No Blood for Oil" sure looks good on a poster [Re: Eightball]
#1333374 - 02/25/03 04:34 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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The civil war was about consolidating power. Bringing the states under a centralized government. It was a sad necessity.
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I hope all bleeding hearts Die from bloodloss!!!!!
Edited by fadedpinkwings (02/25/03 04:35 AM)
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Re: "No Blood for Oil" sure looks good on a poster [Re: silversoul7]
#1333417 - 02/25/03 04:53 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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sivlersoul7 writes:
It has partly to do with demonstrating our power to the Middle East and demanding their fear and respect.
You don't think the complete and utter route in 1991 of the strongest military force in the Middle East garnered their respect?
The warmongers need an enemy to fight, and Iraq is an easier target than N. Korea.
This is sheer speculation on your part.
Something that few people on this board seem to grasp is the difference between the circumstances which led to the end of the Korean War and those which led to the end of the Gulf War of 1991. The parties to the Korean War signed an armistice, the parties to the Gulf War signed a conditional surrender.
Technically speaking, the Korean War was neither "won" nor "lost" -- all that happened was that hostilities were suspended. That suspension of hostilites has endured for half a century, but only because both parties (for the most part) have until now respected the terms of the ceasefire (armistice). In truth, even North Korea's recent belligerent statements do not yet comprise a violation of the armistice terms.
The situation is different in Iraq. In war, a conditional surrender is proposed because the losing side is trying to avoid complete capitulation. The winning side agrees to spare them if and only if certain conditions are met. In Iraq's case, not a single condition of the agreement has yet been met, despite a twelve year grace period.
If the only reason Party "A" halted military operations is because Party "B" agreed to do certain things, then Party "B" refuses to do those things, clearly Party "A" has the right (but not the obligation) to pick up where it left off and finish the job. There is no need to justify the resumption of hostilities by mentioning additional factors such as "humanitarian" issues, or "continuing threats to the region" or "dangerous weaponry" or anything else. The simple fact that Party B deliberately refuses to abide by the conditions of the conditional surrender is, in and of itself, sufficient reason for continuing a war which, in reality, has not yet ended.
pinky
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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Re: "No Blood for Oil" sure looks good on a poster [Re: Eightball]
#1333423 - 02/25/03 04:55 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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eightball writes:
when we first invaded korea it was to suppress the spread of communism under the policey of containment.
Invaded Korea? Which Korean war are you talking about?
pinky
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pattern
multiplayer
Registered: 07/19/02
Posts: 2,185
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: "No Blood for Oil" sure looks good on a poster [Re: Lemon]
#1333589 - 02/25/03 05:58 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Another important fact is that in 2000 Iraq became the first OPEC country to begin selling oil for Euros instead of US dollars. This means the US can no longer buy oil for "nothing". If more of OPEC converts to the Euro, then the US will lose their economic dominance.
If Iraq is invaded, the US will switch Iraq back to selling oil for American dollars.
More info here: Euros vs Dollars
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man = monkey + mushroom
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: "No Blood for Oil" sure looks good on a poster [Re: Rono]
#1334016 - 02/25/03 08:23 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
I have used the phrase ?it?s all about the oil? so many times that I have worn it out.
I feel a tear running down my cheek. 
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
Edited by luvdemshrooms (02/25/03 08:25 AM)
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: "No Blood for Oil" sure looks good on a poster [Re: Demon]
#1334032 - 02/25/03 08:26 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
After all, the majority of republicans are pro drug prohibition.
Can you back that up with some proof?
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Eightball
whore consumer
Registered: 07/21/01
Posts: 3,013
Last seen: 9 years, 8 months
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Re: "No Blood for Oil" sure looks good on a poster [Re: Phred]
#1334588 - 02/25/03 11:17 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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umm what korean war are YOU talking about?
invade: To enter and permeate, especially harmfully.
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If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.
Edited by Eightball (02/25/03 11:19 AM)
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