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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Enlightened Being and Apparent Personalty [Re: g00ru]
#13330092 - 10/13/10 10:06 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Again, no higher self or soul needed. And why I was in agreement with Enpo.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: Enlightened Being and Apparent Personalty [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#13330094 - 10/13/10 10:07 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



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Re: Enlightened Being and Apparent Personalty [Re: Icelander]
#13330100 - 10/13/10 10:08 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's just called the soul, you don't need to call it that. It's just your being. It's not needed logically, it's just there. Look and see
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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c0sm0nautt

Registered: 05/19/08
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Re: Enlightened Being and Apparent Personalty [Re: g00ru]
#13330107 - 10/13/10 10:09 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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He who has ears, let him hear.
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Icelander
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Re: Enlightened Being and Apparent Personalty [Re: g00ru]
#13330109 - 10/13/10 10:09 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Soul infers something that continues beyond death or has magical properties.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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g00ru
lit pants tit licker



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Re: Enlightened Being and Apparent Personalty [Re: Icelander]
#13330124 - 10/13/10 10:14 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Not really, my friend is a Philosophy major he talks about the soul all the time but is undecided in terms of an afterlife.
But I am much more inclined to believe in continuation after death after getting into all this stuff. Especially because the same sages that allowed me to have experiences through their teachings, tell us that reincarnation is real. I have no logical proof.
But don't let assumptions like that prevent you from investigating whether or not the soul is there, right now.
-------------------- check out my music! drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss
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Icelander
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Re: Enlightened Being and Apparent Personalty [Re: g00ru]
#13330138 - 10/13/10 10:17 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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My explorations show no soul, so for me there is none. For that I am grateful.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Enlightened Being and Apparent Personalty [Re: g00ru]
#13330222 - 10/13/10 10:35 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
guruu said: don't let assumptions like that prevent you from investigating whether or not the soul is there, right now.
We exist here right now, investigating what that existence actually is leads to the same state of non-attachment to form Some just like to label that formless existence as soul, atman, nothingness, tao, emptiness, god, source, brahman, energy... Really its wordless though, its just existence/presence that never started & never ends
Just trying to wrap the mind around the idea of a presence that has 'no beginning' is mind blowing As if something has no beginning then the very search for it, happens within it Its like you sweep the rug from under your own feet, direct to emptiness
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Icelander
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Re: Enlightened Being and Apparent Personalty [Re: Chronic7]
#13330396 - 10/13/10 11:20 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't think the mind can actually be wrapped around infinity.
Chronic my boy, you and I really are not in disagreement with much at all if I really understand you. As long as you don't try to label it with a human construct such as "mysticism" or even "scientific" then we are in agreement. Once it becomes impersonal then we agree. And I honestly think you are one of the few here who really seems to grok that. I also appreciate your frank honesty at times.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: Enlightened Being and Apparent Personalty [Re: Icelander]
#13330564 - 10/13/10 11:59 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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aaahhh
Now lets get back to disagreeing before someone tells us to get a room...
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deff
just love everyone



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Re: Enlightened Being and Apparent Personalty [Re: Chronic7]
#13330722 - 10/13/10 12:37 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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"Nirvana with remainder is attained when one is still alive. In this case, the word remainder refers to the effects of karma. The term “with remainder” means that while no new karma is being created, the effects of past karma have not been entirely extinguished. Because of the presence of the physical body, one still feels the various effects of hunger, temperature, sickness, and aging. In nirvana with remainder, one still has to eat when hungry or rest when tired. Even though the body continues to go through sickness, old age, and death, the mind is no longer enslaved by these processes. Regardless of one's circumstances, one can still go on with life in a calm, collected way. This is what is meant by nirvana with remainder.
The state of nirvana without remainder, or parinirvana, is reached when all effects of karma are completely worked out, and the physical body is nothing but a thing of the past. Without the creation of new karma, there is no coming together of the five aggregates and no new birth results. In this state, one's true nature is “dissolved” in all phenomena and becomes one with the universe. Just as sugar dissolves in water without a trace, its presence, though not visible, is indisputable. This total harmony is summed up in the saying, “Time from antiquity to the present is nothing apart from the present thought. The boundless land that separates you and me is nothing more than the tip of a down feather.”
that should explain it i think
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c0sm0nautt

Registered: 05/19/08
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Re: Enlightened Being and Apparent Personalty [Re: deff]
#13330740 - 10/13/10 12:41 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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So these beings still have a remainder?
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deff
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Re: Enlightened Being and Apparent Personalty [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#13330843 - 10/13/10 01:00 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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yes, until they pass away into parinirvana
the body itself is a remainder
also, even though the discriminating mind is transcended through enlightenment, the lankavatara sutra says that it still goes on functioning on it's own, it doesn't get extinguished
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
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Re: Enlightened Being and Apparent Personalty [Re: c0sm0nautt]
#13330903 - 10/13/10 01:09 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'd say parinirvana is only possible when you actually physically die & do not return, any master that imparts teachings, no matter how 'high' they are, they are in nirvana with remainder, otherwise they wouldn't have been born in the first place. If your in 'nirvana without remainder' whilst embodied your basically in nirvikpala samadhi & can not function in the world at all. You know those Yogis that are buried alive and then dug up years later with their beards still growing & consciousness still in them.
Its the equivalent of the Hindu Jivan Mukti - liberated whilst alive & Videha Mukti - liberated at death, the paradox being that to be a Jivan Mukti you have to die 
Jeez, how many times we gotta die before we die, you know?
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deff
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Re: Enlightened Being and Apparent Personalty [Re: Chronic7]
#13330910 - 10/13/10 01:09 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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hehehe
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Enlightened Being and Apparent Personalty [Re: Chronic7]
#13331358 - 10/13/10 02:41 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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You know those Yogis that are buried alive and then dug up years later with their beards still growing & consciousness still in them.
How come this stuff isn't ever scientifically documented? If it were I'd be a believer.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Enlightened Being and Apparent Personalty [Re: Icelander]
#13331443 - 10/13/10 03:00 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: You know those Yogis that are buried alive and then dug up years later with their beards still growing & consciousness still in them.
How come this stuff isn't ever scientifically documented? If it were I'd be a believer.
There was that Yogi who survived with no food or liquid for 70 years supposedly, he did at least 2 weeks under observation anyway, which should be literally impossible
http://bodyodd.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/05/10/4380027-70-years-without-eating-starving-yogi-says-its-true
I have to ask, you'd become a believer in what exactly?
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Icelander
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Re: Enlightened Being and Apparent Personalty [Re: Chronic7]
#13331834 - 10/13/10 04:22 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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I want to see the controlled study by those supposed Indian doctors. I'm sure it was peer reviewed. Please link me as I'm truly interested.
I'd believe that the physical laws of our world could be overridden and I would believe in spirituality and mysticism as valid. I don't believe it but I'm open to being shown.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Enlightened Being and Apparent Personalty [Re: Icelander]
#13331850 - 10/13/10 04:26 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Supposedly its condensation forming on the roof of his mouth that keeps him alive, just so you can remain secure in your dis-beliefs
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: Enlightened Being and Apparent Personalty [Re: Chronic7]
#13332347 - 10/13/10 05:54 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Link me, I'm sure this guy has been written up in some scientific journal. At least in India.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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