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InvisibleEvilMushroom666
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Flowhood Help
    #13327748 - 10/12/10 08:43 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

It has been 3 weeks now since I have decided to build my
own flowhood. During the last 3 weeks I have realized just
how hard it is to source a filter within Canada . I finally
got a hold of a company that can sell me a filter and have
picked the filter linked below:
http://www.tridim.ca/pdf/1700-1-HEPA-and-HEPAMAX.pdf

According to Fungi fun the math for my filter is as follows:
http://www.fungifun.org/English/Flowhood

2ft X 2ft = 4ft squared
100ft/minX 4ft squared = 400 ft cubed/min

So I can therefor assume my blower must deliver 400CFM @ 1.2" W.C

This is were I get lost...as the spec sheet seems to have
a much different resistance...

If you look at the spec sheet for the filter above, on the
last page it has the following stats:

Tri-Pure HEPA
Standard Cap model

Recommended Airflow = 250FPM(1.25 m/sec)
Resistance
12" deep @ 250 FPM = 1" W.G (250 Pascals)
6" deep @ 125 FPM  = 1" W.G (250 Pascals)

Using this site:
http://www.scientifix.net/air-flow-conversions.html

I tried to convert FPM into CFM

A=24"X24" = 576 Square inches
576/144= 4 square feet

4 square feet X 250FPM = 1000 CFM 12" deep filter
4 square feet X 125FPM = 500 CFM  6"  deep filter

I could be off 100% with all my calculations, math is
my weakest area...but If I am can someone please explain
what I did wrong...From my understanding If I get the above
filter 24"X24"X12" I would need a 1000CFM blower to overcome
the resistance, and would need 500CFM to overcome the resistance
of the 6" depth filter... and this is only at 1" W.C...Ill need
1.2" with the prefilter...

Would you suggest a 24"X24"X12" filter OR 24"X24"X6"?

I am sorry if this all does not make sense or is way off...
the more I read into building a hood, the more confusing things
get...especially when dealing with a filter salesman who does
not have any knowledge on using HEPA's for flowhoods...This
is the one he recommended but Im pretty sure its expensive
as shit and will not work as well for what I am planning.
http://www.tridim.ca/pdf/1800-3-TRI-PURE-PANEL.pdf
I feel lost someone please throw me a lifeline lol.


Edited by EvilMushroom666 (10/12/10 11:01 PM)


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Flowhood Help [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #13328450 - 10/12/10 10:40 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

EvilMushroom666 said:

http://www.tridim.ca/pdf/1700-1-HEPA-and-HEPAMAX.pdf


2ft X 2ft = 4ft squared
100ft/minX 4ft squared = 400 ft cubed/min




In a perfect world, a 400 cfm motor would supply that much.  However, blowers are not 100% efficient, and then there's the friction in the plenum, turbulence, etc.  I usually add ten to twenty percent to that figure.

Quote:


Tri-Pure HEPA
Standard Cap model

Recommended Airflow = 250FPM(1.25 m/sec)
Resistance
12" deep @ 250 FPM = 1" W.G (250 Pascals)
6" deep @ 125 FPM  = 1" W.G (250 Pascals)


A=24"X24" = 576 Square inches
576/144= 4 square feet

4 square feet X 250FPM = 1000 CFM 12" deep filter
4 square feet X 125FPM = 500 CFM  6"  deep filter






Some of the newer HEPA filters flow higher than we want at 1" of static pressure.  In these cases, you need to run at a lower static pressure, because you really don't want more than 100 feet per minute leaving your hood.

Based on the specs above, I'd go with the 6" deep filter because it has higher resistance.  The resistance is what helps achieve laminar flow by creating pressure on the back side of the filter.  If every inch of the back side is under pressure, the air flows smoothly out the front side.

I'd go with the 6" filter and a blower rated at 450 cfm @ 1" W.G.
RR


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InvisibleEvilMushroom666
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Re: Flowhood Help [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #13328472 - 10/12/10 10:46 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Thank you so much for the help, seems like I am not all that
far off! The setup you described below should be fine without
wanting the blower to be rated for 450CFM at 1.2" W.C(For the
addition of a prefilter)? I am making a call tomorrow for a
quote on the filter and appreciate your quick reply...might be
a 4-6 week wait but im glad the ball is rolling.

While I have your attention RR I would also like to ask if you
had a suggestion or opinion on the setup:

24"X24"X6" Tri Pure Hepa
Rated at 99.97% at .03 With a Particle board OR plywood frame.
Should the gasket seal be on the upstream,downstream, or both
sides of the filter?

I want to make sure that I order exactly what I need.



Edited by EvilMushroom666 (10/12/10 11:14 PM)


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Flowhood Help [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #13328785 - 10/13/10 12:15 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

450 cfm at .8" to 1.2" W.G. is what you want for a blower.

The filter seals at the face to ensure nothing but filtered air enters your work space.

I'd go with plywood, not particle board.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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InvisibleEvilMushroom666
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Re: Flowhood Help [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #13330881 - 10/13/10 01:05 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I am in the middle of getting a quote and was curious RR,
what is your reasoning behind suggesting Plywood over particle
board? It would be slighlty cheaper to get particle board and
apparently it is more standard then plywood frames.

Just curous if its a preference thing, or a construction
concern where plywood would be easier to seat,secure and seal.

As it stands:

24"X24"X6" Tri Pure HEPA
99.97 @ .03 micron
Particle Board

4 week assembly time
Cost: 171.50+HST = $194 Canadian Dollars

I feel this is more then fair and the gentleman I have been
dealing with has been exceptionally helpful and professional.
He is getting back to me later with information on the price
difference to have it made using Plywood instead of particle
board.


Just want to get another opinion from you before placing the
deposit down to have it made. Thanks again for your help kind sir!:thumbup:


Edited by EvilMushroom666 (10/13/10 02:59 PM)


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InvisibleEvilMushroom666
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Re: Flowhood Help [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #13331466 - 10/13/10 03:05 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

UPDATE:
It is only avialable in Particle board. He has also located
me a filter so I will not have to wait 4 weeks for it to be
made. The only difference is that it is rated at 99.99 @ .03
micron, same size, same resistance, same price as the above quote.
From my understanding it will not change what blower I need correct?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Flowhood Help [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #13336078 - 10/14/10 02:07 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Correct, and the reason I prefer plywood is because I wash the flowhood down so often with Lysol, alcohol, and other cleaners.  Plywood will hold up better to the chemicals.
RR


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InvisibleEvilMushroom666
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Re: Flowhood Help [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #13336268 - 10/14/10 02:59 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks for your help, put in the order today and I am getting it
delivered free of charge late next week. Cheers!
Thanks again


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InvisibleEvilMushroom666
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Re: Flowhood Help [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #13364676 - 10/20/10 11:36 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Had a few more questions. I am getting my HEPA tomorrow morning
so I have been surfing around tonight trying to find a match for the
blower I will require. I have found a motor that is within my price
range and appears to be ok. It is linked here:

http://www.canadianwholesalehydroponics.com/products.cfm?p_id=2126&show_details=1&catpage=2
http://www.hydrofarm.com/pb_detail.php?itemid=6711

Its as you can see a 465CFM Blower used to vent grow rooms. I have
spent a while looking for data sheets for this blower to see if it
will give me the 465CFM at 1.0-1.2" W.C that I need but unfortunately
the spec sheets do not include that data:

http://www.4hydro.com/growroom/manuals/activeAir.pdf

This brings me to my question. Can I go ahead and assume that this
465CFM blower puts out enough flow to bring me at least to the 0.8-1.2
" W.C that I need for my HEPA and prefilter? Is it something that is
not that big of a deal or can a 465CFM blower operate at a wide
variety of different static pressures?


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Offlinetotal
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Re: Flowhood Help [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #13364730 - 10/20/10 11:55 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Absolutely not...
If they dont list the blower is pumping 465CFM at 1.0WU, then you should assume thats in free air...
You will need to match a blower to your filter...
You need a blower that does alittle better than that acctually...
A prefilter is said to increase your static pressure by .2, if your using one, you need a blower that does 465CFM@1.2WU...
Thats quite a big blower :grin:
I was told by hydrofarm that the Vortex 12" inline provides 500CFM@1.0WU
(acctually...i just checked my email, and he provided me with this LINK for all of the vortex fan graphs...that should give you what you'll need)
I hope this helps...

Sorry i couldnt help you with a squirrel cage type...
You can look on grainger.com to find one of those, they normally list static pressure...


Edited by total (10/21/10 12:03 AM)


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InvisibleEvilMushroom666
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Re: Flowhood Help [Re: total]
    #13364782 - 10/21/10 12:12 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I do realize I need a blower of 450CFM at 1.2" W.C, I have contacted
Vortex myself and the fan I got quoted was $400+ dollars. That
is just not doable lol. The most I want to spend is $200, $150 if
possible and the blower I listed above would be perfect price wise.
Every other quote for a blower/fan operating at 450CFM @ 1.2" W.C has
been $400+ the highest quote iv gotten being $697.


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Re: Flowhood Help [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #13364803 - 10/21/10 12:20 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

They are going to be pricey...
You might have better luck going around to hvac places around you and see if you can pickup a used one...
500cfm is alot of air to move at 1.2WU...
Im scouting a $400 fan myself
We are in the same boat...urgh
goodluck

total


Edited by total (10/21/10 12:22 AM)


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InvisibleEvilMushroom666
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Re: Flowhood Help [Re: total]
    #13365818 - 10/21/10 09:51 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Got the filter in today! One step closer to having it built!


Your looking at what $218 CDN gets you...I HOPE the blower I linked
will work for this, going to try and track down the company and call
them ask for data sheets or specs.


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Re: Flowhood Help [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #13369658 - 10/22/10 01:22 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

You should really look on eBay.  I was able to get an 800CFM blower (680CFM@.75") for $130US, shipped.  Even had the data sheet.  Granted it's used, but if you're going to find a bomber fan or blower that you can afford, prepare for it to be a used one.

I didn't try Agar's advice, though I should have, which is to call furnace repair shops in your area to see if they have blowers about that they can sell you.  These are likely to be very hard-working units compared to a grow-room ventilator.  I wish I had done this and I bet it's really the best route possible.

If you don't feel confident finding a viable blower on eBay, I would be willing to make a recommendation based on current searches myself.

I -just- built my hood and have been getting into agar and strain isolation from MS inoculation.  Your hard work will pay off!!!  It's super fun and gratifying.  And it just makes a person feel cool to be working with proper equipment ( I always imagine Professor Frink from the Simpsons, or Dr. Farnsworth from Futurama, but then again I'm a huge-ass nerd ).

Good luck!


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Offlinedarshan
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Re: Flowhood Help [Re: darshan]
    #13369667 - 10/22/10 01:25 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Total is right, that blower will pretty much 100% not work.


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Re: Flowhood Help [Re: darshan]
    #13369676 - 10/22/10 01:29 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

:whathesaid:


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InvisibleEvilMushroom666
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Re: Flowhood Help [Re: darshan]
    #13370598 - 10/22/10 10:04 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I got looking into free air and talking to a few people. I now
unfortunately realize that blower wont work. I got a couple people
looking out for cage blowers for me, I am in no rush just waiting
for that diamond in the rough that does not cost me $400. I would
prefer free .99. Thanks for the input and advice guys.


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Re: Flowhood Help [Re: EvilMushroom666]
    #13371183 - 10/22/10 12:19 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Good luck on finding your Cage blower. It's the only way to go. They will work 100% as long as they are big enough. The place I went to (the HVAC company) had a store room actually full of them for $50 a piece if I wanted to buy one.

But like you and I discussed...I just jumped on opportunity and snagged mine out of a defunct furnace in a dumpster late one night. Checked the rough specs online then hooked it up to the filter and kept closing off one side until I had the air just right. It looks mega Ghetto but hey, it works right? And I paid 0 for it.


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Flowhood Help [Re: Mephistophelian]
    #13374170 - 10/22/10 11:25 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Scroll through these blowers.  There's several that meet your needs.  If in doubt, order a slightly larger one and either slow it down with a motor speed controller or block off part of the air intake.
RR


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Re: Flowhood Help [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #13378136 - 10/23/10 10:08 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Any luck?
I found a SITE that sells Centrifugal Inlines and provides data charts for them...They are reasonably priced...
Based on their data charts, you could get by with a 6"...but id buy a 8" just to make sure :wink:
By the way it looks, the 10" is exactly what i need! :awesomenod:
They have a store on EBAY, and they state the following...
Quote:

30 Day 100% Money Back Guarantee! We stand by our fans so much that if your not happy with it within the first 30 days we will pay the shipping to return it and refund your purchase 100% We also pay shipping on all warrantied items!



I think im gonna give that 10" a go...I think it will more than power my 2"x4" hood...
They also have Speed Controllers...


Edited by total (10/23/10 10:10 PM)


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