Home | Community | Message Board

Cannabis Seeds Zamnesia
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Left Coast Kratom Kratom Powder For Sale   North Spore Cultivation Supplies

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1
OfflineSbstratAlchemist
Enthusiast


Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 1,164
Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Why Are the Effects of Marijuana So Unpredictable?
    #13321476 - 10/11/10 03:34 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/10/why-are-the-effects-of-marijuana-so-unpredictable/


Alcohol is mostly predictable. When we drink a beer (or three), we know how we are going to feel. We can anticipate the buzz, the slackening of self-control, the impaired motor movements and the increased mind-wandering. In part, this is because alcohol is a tightly regulated psychoactive drug, and the alcohol content is clearly printed on every bottle. But it’s also rooted in the predictable response of the brain to booze, and the fact that alcohol seems to have a fairly straightforward interaction with the GABA-A receptor.

But not all drugs are so predictable. Consider marijuana, which can trigger dramatically different symptoms depending on the strain and context. It’s long been known that different strains of the drug contain various amounts of Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the main psychoactive ingredient. When people talk about the effects of the drug – such as giddiness, the munchies, and a sudden desire to watch The Big Lebowski – they’re typically referring to the effects of THC. (Interestingly, the same chemical can also make us paranoid. More on that later.) But THC doesn’t work alone – marijuana also contains cannabidiol, a compound associated with calm and relaxation. The ratio of THC to cannabidiol seems to be the key variable: Skunk-type strains, for instance, contain a higher ratio of THC to cannabidiol than, say, marijuana by-products like hashish. (According to a paper in Neuropsychopharmacology, “Delta-9-THC and CBD can have opposite effects on regional brain function, which may underlie their different symptomatic and behavioral effects, and CBD’s ability to block the psychotogenic effects of delta-9-THC.”) In general, high levels of THC seem to be desired by marijuana users, which helps explain why levels of THC have increased dramatically in the last few decades.

Now for the bad news: These popular skunk-strains (high in THC, low in cannabidiol) seem to be uniquely associated with memory loss. That, at least, is the lesson of a recent paper in the British Journal of Psychiatry. Here’s Nature News:

    Curran and her colleagues travelled to the homes of 134 volunteers, where the subjects got high on their own supply before completing a battery of psychological tests designed to measure anxiety, memory recall and other factors such as verbal fluency when both sober and stoned. The researchers then took a portion of the stash back to their laboratory to test how much THC and cannabidiol it contained.

    The subjects were divided into groups of high (samples containing more than 0.75% cannabidiol) and low (less than 0.14%) cannabidiol exposure, and the data were filtered so that their THC levels were constant. Analysis showed that participants who had smoked cannabis low in cannabidiol were significantly worse at recalling text than they were when not intoxicated. Those who smoked cannabis high in cannabidiol showed no such impairment.

    The results suggest that cannabidiol can mitigate THC’s interference with memory formation. This is the first study in human to show such effects. One previous study, led by Aaron Ilan, a cognitive neuroscientist at the San Francisco Brain Research Institute in California, failed to find variations in cognitive effects with varying concentrations of cannabidiol.

    lan attributes the positive finding of Curran and her team to their more powerful methodology in analysing subjects’ own smoking preferences. In the United States, government policy dictates that only marijuana provided by the National Institute on Drug Abuse can be used for research — and it “is notorious for being low in THC and of poor quality”, says Ilan.

The larger message is that it’s very difficult to generalize about the effects of most drugs. Just look at marijuana: One of the recurring mysteries of the drug is why the same compound can both relax us and make us paranoid; it sometimes causes uncontrollable laughter and sometimes leads to runaway anxiety. This suggests that the context of use – our mental state when smoking a joint, or eating a pot brownie – can profoundly influence the outcome. While it remains mostly unclear how or why this happens, there’s some interesting new research on endocannabinoids in rough-skinned newts. (Endocannabinoids are a class of neuromodulators widely expressed in the brain. Their name gives away the punchline: THC binds to endocannabinoid receptors with ease.)  The basic moral of these studies is that the endocannabinoid system is tightly interwoven with the stress system. For instance, it’s long been recognized that stressing out a male newt leads, not surprisingly, to a rapid surge of corticosterone, a stress hormone. As a result, these poor males have little interest in sex, even when exposed to a lovely female newt. Here’s where the data gets surprising: The effects of the stress hormones seems to be mediated by the endocannabinoid system, so that when these endocannabinoid receptors are blocked stress has no effect. The males keep on having sex, even though they’ve just been through the ringer. Here are the scientists:

    Thus, eCBs [endocannabinoids] regulate a variety of stress-related behaviors at distinct locations of the brain: sex behaviors at the level of the hindbrain, nociceptive-induced behaviors at the level of the midbrain, and anxiety-like behaviors at the level of the forebrain. We hypothesize that eCBs might be involved in coordinating multiple physiological and behavioral functions during acutely stressful events.

What does this have to do with humans and marijuana? (As the researchers note, the stress and EC pathways have been extremely well-conserved in evolution: You get stressed just like a newt.) The reason marijuana has been around for thousands of years (and remains one of the most popular drugs in the world) is that it acts on an incredibly important neural system. EC receptors sit at the intersection of appetite and stress, pain and and anxiety. According to the newt data, EC receptor agonists – compounds that act like THC – induce the same blunting of the sex response as an acute stressor. (In other words, don’t smoke a joint if you hope to perform well in bed.) Is this because the newts are suddenly paranoid? Or is it because they’re too happy to bother with intercourse? The answer is that it depends. As the researchers note, the EC system, like the stress pathway it mediates, is largely context dependent, which is why the same the soup of cortical chemicals can produce a runner’s high and the awful feelings of terror. This has also been demonstrated in newts: The scientists can block the effect of stress on sex if they expose the creatures to sex beforehand, or give them an injection of vasotocin. In other words, priming the males with happy thoughts seems to allow their EC system to shrug off the effects of acute stress. Their previous experience has reversed the symptoms of being poked and prodded by a scientist.

    Behavioral biologists have long known that behavioral responses to environmental stress are context-specific. Given that the state of neural a system will vary with the behavioral state of an animal, it follows that synaptic events mediated by eCB retrograde signaling might contribute to context-specific behaviors.

Too often, we forget that drugs work their magic on a brain that’s never the same. Who we are depends on when you ask the question. So it shouldn’t be too surprising that a drug with many different strains (each of which has a slightly different THC/cannabinoid ratio) and that acts on a context-dependent neural pathway would display such a wide variety of symptoms, from carefree euphoria to its emotional opposite.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinedokunai
Cactus, Cannabis, Cubensis

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 1,878
Loc: Hyphal Heights, USA
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: Why Are the Effects of Marijuana So Unpredictable? [Re: SbstratAlchemist]
    #13321656 - 10/11/10 04:07 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Alcohol is unpredictable because you don't know how much will kill you, and you get worse and worse at making that determination the closer you get to overdose.  I dare anyone to OD and die on cannabis.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineChronicCluster
Lord Cephalopod is Reborn!
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 1,348
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Why Are the Effects of Marijuana So Unpredictable? [Re: dokunai]
    #13321696 - 10/11/10 04:16 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Um. I disagree.  You can barely feel alcohol until you are smashed out of your mind.

The first real indicator that I notice that I have ingested alcohol is the world spinning when I close my eyes.  And that's when I'm close to blackout.

I can't stand alcohol.  Gives me migraines, tastes bad...  I honestly don't know how the hell alcohol became pretty much everyone's drug of choice over much better alternatives like Cannabis.


--------------------
This site needs some submissions.  You should probably help out...
NawMean?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSubconscious
Stranger
Male


Registered: 09/19/08
Posts: 2,486
Last seen: 5 years, 5 months
Re: Why Are the Effects of Marijuana So Unpredictable? [Re: ChronicCluster]
    #13321740 - 10/11/10 04:25 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I love alcohol. Beer is amazing. To each their own. I love weed to, but even better is having a beer after smoking a nice joint.

They both can be unpredicatable in an inexperienced person, and i've seen both cause some nasty effects. Weed- panic attacks, alchol- profuse vomitting.

I treat both substances with respect, and love them both very much.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinedokunai
Cactus, Cannabis, Cubensis

Registered: 01/31/10
Posts: 1,878
Loc: Hyphal Heights, USA
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: Why Are the Effects of Marijuana So Unpredictable? [Re: Subconscious]
    #13321809 - 10/11/10 04:38 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Subconscious said:
I treat both substances with respect, and love them both very much.




Word.  I wasn't shitting on alcohol, just saying it can make a night get way crazier than ganja ever would.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineChronicCluster
Lord Cephalopod is Reborn!
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 1,348
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Why Are the Effects of Marijuana So Unpredictable? [Re: dokunai]
    #13321824 - 10/11/10 04:41 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

dokunai said:
Quote:

Subconscious said:
I treat both substances with respect, and love them both very much.




Word.  I wasn't shitting on alcohol, just saying it can make a night get way crazier than ganja ever would.



Now that is just :wtf:


--------------------
This site needs some submissions.  You should probably help out...
NawMean?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleInvisible_Woe


Registered: 05/25/07
Posts: 11,709
Loc: Mabase
Re: Why Are the Effects of Marijuana So Unpredictable? [Re: Subconscious]
    #13321826 - 10/11/10 04:42 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

i didnt read much not ganna lie but, to me its about the person not the drug...i react the same way to marijuana (and any other drug (except for lysergic acids)) that i always have. :shrug:


--------------------
These are not the answers you should be questioning.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleInvisible_Woe


Registered: 05/25/07
Posts: 11,709
Loc: Mabase
Re: Why Are the Effects of Marijuana So Unpredictable? [Re: dokunai]
    #13321831 - 10/11/10 04:43 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

dokunai said:
I dare anyone to OD and die on cannabis.



challenge accepted :awehigh:


--------------------
These are not the answers you should be questioning.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineUbitsa
Waiting Is
 User Gallery


Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 575
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Why Are the Effects of Marijuana So Unpredictable? [Re: Invisible_Woe]
    #13322544 - 10/11/10 07:26 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

In the latter part of the article, they're basically saying that 'mindset' affects the high;  something everyone here @ shroomery already knows(or should!).

So, kudos to the researchers, but as usual they are a bit behind common knowledge :smile:


--------------------



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineauronlives69
psychedelic monk
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/19/09
Posts: 655
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
Re: Why Are the Effects of Marijuana So Unpredictable? [Re: SbstratAlchemist]
    #13322598 - 10/11/10 07:41 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

alcohol is very very unpredictable, think about it sometimes you get shit faced drunk and get all happy, sometimes people cry and act stupid, sometimes people get angry and start some shit and sometimes you just dont remember what the hell happend last night

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBirdsIView
Mr. Helms
 User Gallery
Registered: 07/19/07
Posts: 736
Re: Why Are the Effects of Marijuana So Unpredictable? [Re: Ubitsa]
    #13322639 - 10/11/10 07:48 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I never pay attention to when people describe a particular strain of cannabis' effects. I think I could smoke the same weed 10 times and have 10 completely unique reactions. It's most definitely a very unpredictable drug.

I think alcohol is a whole lot more predictable. I always get more confident, more talkative and a little more violent (not the crazy drunk picking fights with everyone but if someone wants one, I won't turn it down). The more I drink, the more these effects are exaggerated.

Edited by BirdsIView (10/11/10 07:53 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
Loc: Planet Piss
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
Re: Why Are the Effects of Marijuana So Unpredictable? [Re: BirdsIView]
    #13322732 - 10/11/10 08:13 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Denial about sexuality often snowballs into memory loss.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledrr
Female
Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 8,444
Re: Why Are the Effects of Marijuana So Unpredictable? [Re: SbstratAlchemist]
    #13323905 - 10/12/10 12:40 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I agree with most of those points. Alcohol is very predictable to me; it always has the intended effect. The only thing that seems to vary is whether or not I get nauseous, which probably is determined by what/how much I ate. I rarely ever drink to the point of blackout or near-overdose - I have done that probably two or three times, tops, and I don't really think its worth it.

To the guy who said he doesn't feel anything until that point, that is really weird, because I can feel half a beer, literally :shrug:. Its a warm, slightly euphoric flushed feeling, a little bit light and good. That initial buzz is as good as the alcohol effect gets for me. So I tend to want to drink two-three beers at the most, and then just stop and accept the departure of the feel-good buzz. Because continuing to drink after that point makes me feel like shit, always.


Pot is predictable to me only because I'm so habituated to it. When I take a short break, all predictability is out, and I need to be careful how much I smoke to avoid panic. Usually it is very relaxing for me, or I wouldn't bother with it. But different strains, different settings, and mindsets, can bring about different effects. I like to smoke sativas generally, and I know this goes against the common understanding of marijuana strains, but for me, the sativas make me less anxious than indicas, while at the same time making feel more alert and less sleepy. It doesn't really make sense that the plant with less cbd would be better at relieving my anxiety - but I think it has something to do with that heavy indica body high, which is almost too much to handle occasionally. It is the really good 50/50 hybrids that will be the strongest, in my experience.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledressel11
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/17/04
Posts: 407
Loc: Milky Way
Re: Why Are the Effects of Marijuana So Unpredictable? [Re: drr]
    #13324178 - 10/12/10 02:26 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Auron i feel you on that. When i get smashed anyone of those outcomes are possible. Mj is just as unpredictable for me though. I sometimes feel connected to the world, blissful, or at peace. Others I get paranoid, groggy, or unmotivated. For me it depends on mind set and motif, but thats just me. The major difference is mj always gives me a chance to reflect on the experience and think about why i reacted that way. Like mj is helping me learn and grow. Alcohol leaves nothing behind. except a possible headache or regret from before. That is just me though. like I said, "To each his own." Everyone deserves a chance to learn from they're own experience and not be told how to think or what to approve or disapprove.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineshroom-jitsu
Divine Triangler
Male


Registered: 01/24/10
Posts: 439
Loc: Here
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
Re: Why Are the Effects of Marijuana So Unpredictable? [Re: dressel11]
    #13325775 - 10/12/10 01:07 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Marijuana isn't unpredictable at all.  People are unpredictable.  Alter a persons perception with some herbal enlightenment and sometimes they get a little anxious, or paranoid if you will.  Same as a lot of folks who stumble, mumble and fall all over themselves the first time they get drunk.  Who the hell know's what the hell people will do when their uncomfortable or out of familiar grounds?  Is that marijuana acting unpredictably?  No, it's just people being people.

Otherwise, the slow speech, red eyes, voracious appetite... nah, nothing predictable there...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Left Coast Kratom Kratom Powder For Sale   North Spore Cultivation Supplies


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Marijuana ads prove unnecessary and a waste of American tax motamanM 2,495 1 04/22/03 08:42 AM
by chodamunky
* Alaskans vote to decriminalize marijuana veggieM 2,185 1 10/26/04 02:43 PM
by Civ
* Deficits in endocannabinoid function may contribute to eating disorders veggieM 1,067 8 11/02/11 03:21 AM
by PinsWellWithOthers
* Endocannabinoids, free radicals and age-related illness Caladan_Shroom 782 5 09/01/09 03:12 AM
by UpSwell
* Health Canada set to release users' manual for marijuana motamanM 2,620 1 07/20/03 05:36 PM
by Hans_Moleman
* Federal Report: Five Million Parents Have Alcohol Problems AnnoA 1,136 0 02/13/04 02:05 AM
by Anno
* Former Dallas Cowboy Lauds His 20 Year Marijuana Use socratesmind 4,682 4 03/03/03 11:26 PM
by rhizo
* Researchers buzzing about marijuana-derived medicines veggieM 1,314 0 11/07/04 10:56 AM
by veggie

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: motaman, veggie, Alan Rockefeller, Mostly_Harmless
1,752 topic views. 0 members, 3 guests and 2 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.022 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 12 queries.