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Anonymous #1
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If someone has your name and address, can they phone in a police tip, and if so, what then?
#13318572 - 10/10/10 10:28 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm curious about something... if someone has your name and address, and they phoned the police and reported that you had drugs, a meth lab, were selling drugs out of the house, or whatever else they wanted to make up, what happens, then? Can the police just stop by with a warrant? Or, do they need to witness crimes taking place before coming by? Thanks guys
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2859558484
Growery is Better



Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 8,752
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Re: If someone has your name and address, can they phone in a police tip, and if so, what then? [Re: Anonymous #1]
#13319017 - 10/11/10 12:37 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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theyre not supposed to be able to get a warrant from an anonymous tip but it happens. Really depends on the judge and DA involved so i'd say dont risk it if theres a narc on the loose.
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Anonymous #2
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Re: If someone has your name and address, can they phone in a police tip, and if so, what then? [Re: 2859558484]
#13320822 - 10/11/10 01:21 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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It depends on where you live. If you think that someone might , I'd keep my home clean for a long time.
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k00laid
NEMO


Registered: 05/03/10
Posts: 19,636
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Re: If someone has your name and address, can they phone in a police tip, and if so, what then? [Re: Anonymous #2]
#13322133 - 10/11/10 05:40 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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they shouldnt be able to but they will
some friends of mine were smoking cigarettes for a suspiciously long period of time parked in a car.
some nosey neighbor called the cops saying she can clearly see kids smoking pot outside her house.
the cops came and searched the car. no one got in trouble. but it was quite a nuisance
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naum



Registered: 10/09/07
Posts: 4,069
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Re: If someone has your name and address, can they phone in a police tip, and if so, what then? [Re: Anonymous #1]
#13322232 - 10/11/10 06:10 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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A recent-ish story on the Shroomery where someone was arrested for Cannabis and mushrooms because someone who was bitter made a false call to the police stating that the OP brandished a firearm:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11472641
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shroom-jitsu
Divine Triangler



Registered: 01/24/10
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Re: If someone has your name and address, can they phone in a police tip, and if so, what then? [Re: naum]
#13326062 - 10/12/10 02:01 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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If someone calls in a tip about you, you absolutely will be investigated. Maybe just check out where you live or work. Regardless, you will be on a list. You will be paid special attention if you rub the law in any other way. You will eventually make it to the top of said list and be set up with a narc.
If the tip is substantial enough, they can and may execute a no-knock warrant. They wait until you aren't home and investiage your pad. Yes, this is now legal. It was introduced by the Bush admin for terror cases, but guess what? Ha, ha, that's right. The drug nazi's have taken the liberty.
Most likely though, you'll get pulled over driving for something stupid and searched. If you think you've been informed on, the best way to protect yourself is:
-Keep shit to yourself. -Always drive clean. -Find a lawyer in advance.* -Anything of concern goes into a innocuous container.** -Hide the container. -Never open the door without checking who it is. -Never open the door for police.*** -Never talk to police after they bust open the door.**** -Always maintain innocence until AFTER your arraignment. -Use Google Scholar, Legal Opinions - LIFE SAVER! -Don't accept the initial offer EVER! -Don't take a plea if you have room to fight!***** -There is no field test for mushrooms!
* Most lawyers will tell you that you are in a lot more trouble than you really are in if you talk to them immediately following the event. They want to scare you into an immediate retainer and big $$$. Lawyers are lying scum. Never shop until late afternoon: A good lawyer is in court all morning. Always tell the lawyer that he's the 3rd or 4th you shopped.
** As far as containers go, police DO NOT have the right to search, without warrant, a "facially superficial" container. A wooden box is a good example. It's a container that shows now clear indication of what it is used for. You have a right to privacy.
A medicine bottle or a film cannister (even a coffee can) ARE NOT facially superficial. They are "single purpose" containers and may be searched by police without warrant. The logic is, since it's clearly labeld as to what it is, you should have no expectation of privacy within it.
*** Even if they bang and threaten and swear that they have a warrant, remain silent. Put on your headphones and hope they go away. If they enter the premesis, you want their to be NO MISTAKE about the fact that YOU DID NOT LET THEM IN. If you open the door, the WILL come in and all the other officers on the scene will swear you invited them in.
Remember this if you remember nothing else: DO NOT TALK TO COPS! They will not go any easier on you. They will not do you favors. No, the judge will not care (unless you are blatantly disrespectful). Insist on your attorney no matter what. NO MATTER WHAT! Don't even acknowledge your name. Nothing you say to cops will ever do anything other than HAUNT YOU!
**** If the police have a warrant, they will bust open the door. That's good. You can prove that you didn't let them in - it DOES make a difference. If you let them in, they can apply Plain View doctrine. If they bust in executing a warrant, they are restricted to the specifics on the warrant (well, moreso than if you let them in). Gray areas here - how good is your attorney?
***** If you didn't get an attorney in advance, likely the attorney you do retain will already have a "template deal" to offer you for your cooperation - aka plead guilty. Don't take the first offer ever! Lawyers will tell you that the prosecution will try for the maximum if you don't accept the deal - that is largely bullshit. The prosecution doens't give a rats ass about you anymore than a cashier cares about whoes groceries their bagging. Do homework about your case on Google Scholar - tons of info there. Make sure YOUR attorney does what YOU want. You are paying him.
Hope it helps.
Edited by shroom-jitsu (10/12/10 02:04 PM)
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,392
Last seen: 2 days, 19 hours
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Re: If someone has your name and address, can they phone in a police tip, and if so, what then? [Re: Anonymous #1]
#13327736 - 10/12/10 08:40 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
shroom-jitsu said: ** As far as containers go, police DO NOT have the right to search, without warrant, a "facially superficial" container. A wooden box is a good example. It's a container that shows now clear indication of what it is used for. You have a right to privacy.
A medicine bottle or a film cannister (even a coffee can) ARE NOT facially superficial. They are "single purpose" containers and may be searched by police without warrant. The logic is, since it's clearly labeld as to what it is, you should have no expectation of privacy within it.
That is interesting, where did you hear that?
It makes some sense but I have not heard that before.
In my experience they either have the right to search or they do not, as long as the container is not suspicious in itself I am not sure that it matters what kind of container it is in.
Good advice, especially with regards to lawyers and telling them that they are the 3rd or 4th that you have talked to.
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Anonymous said: I'm curious about something... if someone has your name and address, and they phoned the police and reported that you had drugs, a meth lab, were selling drugs out of the house, or whatever else they wanted to make up, what happens, then? Can the police just stop by with a warrant? Or, do they need to witness crimes taking place before coming by? Thanks guys
It depends a lot on what they tell them.
If they say you have drugs, the police are likely to check your garbage for pot seeds/stems and get a warrant if they find any.
If they say you have a hostage in your house the police will bust in and search. It is called swatting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatting
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: If someone has your name and address, can they phone in a police tip, and if so, what then? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#13327900 - 10/12/10 09:09 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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yeah, what does facially superficial mean?
You've got a lot of stuff listed there with absolute claims as to the law- which usually isn't realistic.
There is no per se exception for searching a container. Like Allan says, if they have a right to search, their's no per se container exception.
The only thing the continer can do is define an area of space inconsistant with the target of the search and keep things out of view. It can help in a terry search or something, or if they've got a warrant for stuff that couldn't be in the box. For a sealed container it may be unreasonable to break into it, but again, this is only if the search is relatively constrained.
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The logic is, since it's clearly labeled as to what it is, you should have no expectation of privacy within it.
Do you have a citation for this? I can't imagine how this could be justified without additional circumstances.
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If you let them in, they can apply Plain View doctrine. If they bust in executing a warrant, they are restricted to the specifics on the warrant (well, moreso than if you let them in)
Yes, but them looking at something sitting on the table while they're executing a warrant lawfully isn't a "search" within the context of the fourth amendment, so its not like your protected if you don't let them in. And while they may not have authorization to seize particular objects, they certainly can use their eyes and get a warrant for them with what their eyes see. With items that are unambiguously illegal, there shouldn't be any issue with admitting it if they just seize it- for other things their could be problems. (thank the war on drugs, once again, for decisions like that)
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Anonymous #1
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Re: If someone has your name and address, can they phone in a police tip, and if so, what then? [Re: johnm214]
#13327987 - 10/12/10 09:22 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Original poster, here. Truth be told, I think that there are certain people on here who I've traded prints with that don't like me. I wouldn't put it past them to report something to the cops. What if that's the case?
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,392
Last seen: 2 days, 19 hours
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Re: If someone has your name and address, can they phone in a police tip, and if so, what then? [Re: Anonymous #1]
#13328110 - 10/12/10 09:38 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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I seriously doubt that someone you traded prints with would report you to the cops because they do not like the things you posted on the internet.
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2859558484
Growery is Better



Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 8,752
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Re: If someone has your name and address, can they phone in a police tip, and if so, what then? [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#13328156 - 10/12/10 09:45 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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lol
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shroom-jitsu
Divine Triangler



Registered: 01/24/10
Posts: 439
Loc: Here
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: If someone has your name and address, can they phone in a police tip, and if so, what then? [Re: 2859558484]
#13330178 - 10/13/10 10:25 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Everything I posted can be found on Google Scholar. Here's reference to container types. Remember, the facially superfical vs single-purpose container precedent only comes into play if:
-Officer is legally in premesis -Officer confiscates something based upon Plain View Doctrine
A facially-superficial container (wood box, no label) can't confiscated under Plain View Doctrine. If the warrant doesn't state that it's subject to search, it's not.
Reference: http://www.legalupdateonline.com/4th/856#cont863
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: If someone has your name and address, can they phone in a police tip, and if so, what then? [Re: shroom-jitsu]
#13330320 - 10/13/10 11:00 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
shroom-jitsu said: Everything I posted can be found on Google Scholar. Here's reference to container types. Remember, the facially superfical vs single-purpose container precedent only comes into play if:
-Officer is legally in premesis -Officer confiscates something based upon Plain View Doctrine
A facially-superficial container (wood box, no label) can't confiscated under Plain View Doctrine. If the warrant doesn't state that it's subject to search, it's not.
Reference: http://www.legalupdateonline.com/4th/856#cont863
Ok, thanks for the refrence.
I've not gone through them all, but just looking at Arkansas v Sanders, the first one under the container theory section, they arrange the citations to create an impression to the cops reading (that they seem to be targeting as their demographic) that the container stuff is dispositive to the legality of searching it, which it isn't.
The whole point, like Allen said, is whether they have legal cause to be searching in the first place.
THEN, if they do, they may not search certain things pursuant to the automobile exemption that are not consistant with such. One example would be sealed luggage in the trunk not searched per Terry or similar safety concerns. The luggage had a reasonable expectation of privacy and no exigancy existed as they could seize it and get a warrant at their leisure. This is not the justification for the auto search, primarily evidence spoilation and low privacy expectation. The talk about obviating the need for a warrant is in the context of having prexisting rights to search the automobile in which it is contained and even seize the item pending the decision on a warrant. It doesn't follow that if they don't need a warrant for the item per se that this means they may search it without having a justification for the search of the car itself.
So this really doesn't back up what your saying, but I can understand why you think it would- it's misleading. If your interested, its footnote 13: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=CASE&court=US&vol=442&page=753
The key point is that these things only matter after their is lawful (constitutional) access to the container- whether sitting on the sidewalk next to you, in your room that the cops are searching legally, or in your trunk that the cops are searching.
If you have a specific citation I'd be happy to check it out. I think that site is arranged a bit misleading in the way they cherry pick quotes and place them under headings that make it seem like the talk of "obviating the need for a warrant" means it can be searched constitutionaly per se when this wasn't the decision at all, for example.
As an aside, nowdays I'd imagine this situation would go down differently if the cops are good at testifying and writing reports. They'd go for a Terry search justification (post facto of course) and I've seen stupider cases then that get ruled permissive. (one a guy was even in handcuffs in the back of a car and the item was locked in a seperate car to which the guy didn't have a key, and it was ruled necessary to search for 'officer safety' as their might be a gun present - posted about this a while ago here)
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shroom-jitsu
Divine Triangler



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Re: If someone has your name and address, can they phone in a police tip, and if so, what then? [Re: johnm214]
#13330474 - 10/13/10 11:38 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Not mislead or confused at all. I know how this law is interpreted. I've seen it happen.
What I post is based 1st and foremost on personal experience. I don't post about what I don't know about. Unfortunately, it's not a good idea to post that kind of experience in detail on a public forum. So I provided you a link instead. 
You seem to feel there is an arguement here? There isn't. What I posted backs up my point wonderfully - I'm content. If you want to play lawyer and publish a friggen legal analysis, by all means, but I can't waste time reading it all.
As far as the police "legally" being in the place their searching, let me ask you: Do you think the police really ask for permission? They don't. They barge in and if you try to stop them, they taze you. Then all the officers present practice their synchronized song and dance, all to the tune of "He was violently aggressive" or otherwise, "He invited us in". Sometimes it's "he left the door ajar". Always an excuse, but they are comming in.
What most cops don't know is that if they confiscate a plain wooden box without a warrant, a lawyer can throw it out.
Here's more reference for you: http://www.massprosecutorsguide.com/sample/searchpvA
http://www.cklawreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2009SCP/2008LRwriteon1.pdf
http://fourthamendment.com/blog/index.php?blog=1&c=1&more=1&pb=1&tb=1&title=8th_cir_expresses_doubt_as_to_single_pur
http://lawreview.uchicago.edu/issues/archive/v76/76_4/Lucier.pdf
Amongst many others. If you read ALL the cases, you'll see that most commonly it's wooden boxes that are thrown out of evidence. If you ever get popped for something like this, you WILL read ALL the cases - there are hundreds if you google scholar "single-purpose container".
The type of container you store your shit in DOES matter.
Edited by shroom-jitsu (10/13/10 11:39 AM)
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Mr. Anderson
πριν από το χρόνο κάποιου


Registered: 09/05/10
Posts: 2,677
Loc: Torn between the roots of...
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Re: If someone has your name and address, can they phone in a police tip, and if so, what then? [Re: shroom-jitsu]
#13330542 - 10/13/10 11:51 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Good info, I agree with pretty much all of it
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johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: If someone has your name and address, can they phone in a police tip, and if so, what then? [Re: shroom-jitsu]
#13330550 - 10/13/10 11:54 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
shroom-jitsu said: Not mislead or confused at all. I know how this law is interpreted. I've seen it happen.
What I post is based 1st and foremost on personal experience. I don't post about what I don't know about. Unfortunately, it's not a good idea to post that kind of experience in detail on a public forum. So I provided you a link instead. 
Remember, just cuz something happened doesn't mean it was legal.
Was this first and foremost situation challenged in a surpression motion where the defendant had standing (privacy rights in the searched stuff)?
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You seem to feel there is an arguement here? There isn't. What I posted backs up my point wonderfully - I'm content.
Your second post mentioned they must first have legal access to the item then the container may or may not be searchable. I agree. I don't believe this was what you said in the first post so perhaps one of us was not communicating/reading well.
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If you want to play lawyer and publish a friggen legal analysis, by all means, but I can't waste time reading it all.
Well, its a discussion forum. Your welcome to go anytime if your not interested.
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As far as the police "legally" being in the place their searching, let me ask you: Do you think the police really ask for permission? They don't. They barge in and if you try to stop them, they taze you. Then all the officers present practice their synchronized song and dance, all to the tune of "He was violently aggressive" or otherwise, "He invited us in". Sometimes it's "he left the door ajar". Always an excuse, but they are comming in.
But how is this relevant? We're only talking about the law here. These are matters of fact (or mixed fact and law) which will control regardless of if they're incorrect or not. If the cop establishes they had consent falsely, that doesn't challenge the argument as to law we've discussed.
I agree that "they are coming in" as you put it in most cases, but again, this is kinda besides the point. The law is what it is and cops do what they want, and hopefully the law gets applied to correct facts.
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What most cops don't know is that if they confiscate a plain wooden box without a warrant, a lawyer can throw it out.
Depends on the situation. The limits yoru discussing have more of an applicability to searches rather than seizures, as usually its the later that's limiting.
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Amongst many others. If you read ALL the cases, you'll see that most commonly it's wooden boxes that are thrown out of evidence. If you ever get popped for something like this, you WILL read ALL the cases - there are hundreds if you google scholar "single-purpose container".
The type of container you store your shit in DOES matter.
Sure, never said otherwise, the test is reasonableness and very fact specific. I've often suggested this may be a good strategy, though primarily for terry search purposes (if small container) and to avoid plain site. If its locked even better.
But inviting me to read a whole page of citations isn't helpful. One citation will do to prove whatever point you wish to make.
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shroom-jitsu
Divine Triangler



Registered: 01/24/10
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Re: If someone has your name and address, can they phone in a police tip, and if so, what then? [Re: johnm214]
#13330955 - 10/13/10 01:18 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Riight. All that stuff he said up there - I'm sure it's quality.
Anyway, point of all this is to hide your stash in an innocuous container and be safe. 
Cheers!
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