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OfflineAzmodeus
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America...our last hope?
    #1331444 - 02/24/03 12:14 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Well with the present population, technology curve, and dwindling resources, i suspect this cant go on much longer.
Its a FACT we cannot continue the way we are.  That means we are going to annihilate each other and its just a matter of when....and how!  If america starts a global conflict (the've already threatened nuclear force) it could very well be the end, but if not like that, then some other simiar conflict...

As much as i despise america, what they stand for, and what they enforce on others......they may be our last hope.  If we continue on we will run out of resources and war WILL occur and our population will be devestated and our society will regress and history shall repeat, unless....
and i hate to say this, America conquers the world and establishes a new regime.  One currency, one people, one nation.  That kind of horrible control might just be the only way we can advance as a society.  So many resources have been consumed, it will be next to impossible to evolve to our level now if another dark ages occures. 

To me its no better than if hitler won the war, but it may be our only hope.  I am curious how others view this situation...
its hard to say one way or the other. :tongue:


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Offlinezandorf
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Re: America...our last hope? [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1331463 - 02/24/03 12:23 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

i agree with you that dwindling resources would be the one and only possible cause fo wwIII simply because nothing but the threat of mass starvation could drive an entire world of people to a nuclear war.

But... north america alone is capable of supplying an incredible amount of food.
At some point The U.S. govt. will find that itself under circumstances whick make it more profitable to produce food for export than to pay farmers not to farm in order to keep the food market stable.

IF more farmers than exist are needed, the government can just pay people a lot of money to become farmers. In north america with all of the latest capitol available (they would be here, unlike other places) one person farming can produce enough food to feed 100 people.

now then, other resources like oil...well fossil fuels will be used until they're gone, that's the way it is. i don't like it, you don't like it, darn.
but hydrogen power and all that stuff we'll need once we run out will be there. We don't switch now because too many people can make money off fossil fuels, once they can't anymore we'll have alternative fuel.

The real problem here is, you're right, other countries less fortunate than ours who may fight over resources. I think that america will not ever attempt to conquer the world, but they will probably extract labor from other countries while putting food into it. It may be unpopular, but it can feed the world and probably will. I mean, hell, america already does this.

Heh, africa is probably screwed though.


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OfflineMushyMay
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Re: America...our last hope? [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1331476 - 02/24/03 12:28 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Please don't say stuff like that... it scares the shit out of me. If America? is our last hope then I think were fucked.


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: America...our last hope? [Re: zandorf]
    #1331501 - 02/24/03 12:39 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

yeah, im glad theres no easy way off africa! :crazy:


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"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: America...our last hope? [Re: MushyMay]
    #1331505 - 02/24/03 12:40 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

It scares me too, but i have difficulty imagining america going down without world domination, or nuclear hollocaust....
They're not just going to go away. :frown:


--------------------
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OfflineAislingGheal
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Re: America...our last hope? [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1331583 - 02/24/03 01:25 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Good post Asmodeus, this could keep a person up at night. I really don't think that the American/capitalist model will save the world any more than communism, fascism or any other model I can think of. The idea that consumerism can proceed unchecked is false because the earth's resources are finite, yet it is this very idea that America holds out to the rest of the world, work hard and buy shit, that's what our god given freedom seems to be these days. Check out the last half of McKenna's talk "VisionPlants" for a good rant along these lines. I really do not view America as imperialistic, just misguided.
I think one of two things are more likely to happen. That some religious zealot will eventually use nuclear weapons and set off ww3 and thereby end the human species (sorry Gaia, try again) or that the exponential growth of technology leads mankind to an unpredictable evolutionary jump, hopefully soon. And psychedelics are certainly a powerful technology, surely an integral part of that jump if it occurs. Whatever happens I believe the shit hits the fan within the next 15 years easy.



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"I hate having to pick between the lesser of two evils. But I'm glad Obama was elected. McCain was another war monger. I'd rather deal with our country going into debt than trying to take on afghanistan...oh wait FUCK!" - Fungus_tao


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: America...our last hope? [Re: AislingGheal]
    #1332093 - 02/24/03 04:35 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not investing in RRSP's.... :smirk:


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"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Anonymous

Re: America...our last hope? [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1332101 - 02/24/03 04:39 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

...Dwindling resources?

Why does everyone assume the earth is running low on resources? We havent even begun to tap into places like Russia, north canada, etc.. South america is still pretty poor, theres probably more shit down there.. not to mention what could be beneath various oceans or bodies of water, etc..


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: America...our last hope? [Re: ]
    #1333607 - 02/25/03 08:03 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, lets completely and totally rape the earth of every vauable resource, be it renewable or non-renewable. :tongue:
Come on! We really dont have much left. :mad:

Not even beigined to tap our resources?!
Everything that is asccesible is almost gone!  The cost to oil drill in those deep parts of the ocean and such are just not feasible!  Same goes for metals and other dwindling materials...
Canada barely has any 1st growth forests left!!  We cant just use up what left because then it really will be too late!  We have a chance now, but i just can't see humanity getting organised....


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"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: America...our last hope? [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1334281 - 02/25/03 11:31 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

No-one has any more comments?

I cant see civilization lasting for more than 100 years.... :frown:


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"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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Offlineflow
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Re: America...our last hope? [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1334310 - 02/25/03 11:38 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Everything that is asccesible is almost gone! The cost to oil drill in those deep parts of the ocean and such are just not feasible!



electric motors powered by solar energy could take thge place of basically anything we need oil for. Also, it's not like we really need oil to survive.
All we really need is food, water, and air.
The problem in the future is going to be clean water. that is what WWIII will be fought about. (if Gulf War part duece doesn't kick start it)


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InvisibleInnvertigo
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Re: America...our last hope? [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1334345 - 02/25/03 11:52 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

the've already threatened nuclear force



\why weren't people saying this when the USSR threatened to nuke france.......maybe because it was france :grin:


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OfflineMushyMay
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Re: America...our last hope? [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1334425 - 02/25/03 12:22 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Realistically the only future for mankind exists OUT THERE...

In outer space. This planet isn't going to be here forever and if we really want the human race to stand the test of time we should get our asses of this hunk of rock. Instead of spending billions on wars we should spend some money finding out a) whatthefuckisoutthere? and b)howthefuckdowegetoutthere?


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MushyMay is a fictional character, as a result any information provided by MushyMay is also fictitious.


Edited by MushyMay (02/25/03 12:23 PM)


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: America...our last hope? [Re: MushyMay]
    #1334516 - 02/25/03 12:51 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

But in order to advance like that we need one nation, one currency, and a guiding hand to direct progression to the right areas.
Thats what im saying....someone needs to conquer the world and unify the populace as horrible....and great as that could be, i really think it necessary if we are to evolve past this stage of humanity.



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"Know your Body - Know your Mind - Know your Substance - Know your Source.

Lest we forget. "


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InvisibleEvolving
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Re: America...our last hope? [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1334654 - 02/25/03 01:35 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

History tells us that that won't work. Look at the former Yugoslavia. What is needed is for people to renounce the initiation force as a means of acheiving political or social goals. Until we realize our potential as a species to think rationally and use reason as a tool to change behavior we will keep repeating the mistakes of history.


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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.'  Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence.  Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains.  Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.


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OfflineMushyMay
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Re: America...our last hope? [Re: Azmodeus]
    #1334655 - 02/25/03 01:35 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I can see what your saying. I don't know if that is the only option though. Due to geography, the population of the planet will always be divided. Something like the UN (but not the UN) would be another option. Keep nations separate but have some governing body and set of rules that all nations (including the big tough ones like the US) have to abide by.


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OfflinePedM
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Re: America...our last hope? [Re: ]
    #1334719 - 02/25/03 01:54 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

It's not about what resources are available, it's about who has control over them, and who profits the most from them. That's where war enters the equation. With America's own resources dwindling and it's rampant consumerism escalating, clearly Saddam is an immediate threat to global security. Makes sense, doesn't it?

Assuming that America embraced the entire planet in peace and not under the despotic reign they've been inching toward for the past 30 years, all seven continents being Property of America would mean a social stagnation hundreds of times greater than what is already obviously apparent within America's own borders. It would mean harmony for a short while, but a good chunk of the population would not stand for 5 billion citizens of mediocrity: lavished with all thinkable opportunity, but denied all the necessary tools.

I for one could not stand that many cellphone and life insurance commericals.


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OfflineAislingGheal
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Re: America...our last hope? [Re: Ped]
    #1335439 - 02/25/03 05:20 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I agree with Ped that a world united under one government would be stagnant, and in my opinion there are not enough resources to make it happen let alone sustain it far into the future. Many of the resources that modern civilization depends on are not renewable and the atmosphere has been permanently altered due to the amount of pollutants put into the air since the dawning of the Industrial Age (read "The End of Nature" by McKibben).

Asmodeus, I understand your point but I think you have it backwards; I think an evolutionary jump must come first before the world could unite peacefully under one government. There is too much division (ideological, political, racial), too much Ego, for it to work the other way around. I would agree that if humanity survives it will be necessary to populate other planets.


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"I hate having to pick between the lesser of two evils. But I'm glad Obama was elected. McCain was another war monger. I'd rather deal with our country going into debt than trying to take on afghanistan...oh wait FUCK!" - Fungus_tao


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Offlineruskifile
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Re: America...our last hope? [Re: AislingGheal]
    #1335527 - 02/25/03 05:41 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I think an evolutionary jump must come first before the world could unite peacefully under one government. There is too much division (ideological, political, racial), too much Ego, for it to work the other way around. I would agree that if humanity survives it will be necessary to populate other planets. 




Great point there, AislingGheal... :wink:

I agree, the consciousness of humans on both an individual and a global scale would have to change first before anything like a 'peaceful world govt' could happen...you are spot on with the Ego factor there hehe :grin:

For there to be lasting peace among such a diverse population of races, political leanings, religions etc (who would have to cease going for each others' throats) everyone would have to unilaterally agree that human beings are the most important resource on the planet rather than oil, $$ etc etc, and attention would have to turn to some modicum of equality between the different continents since national borders would no longer exist....a hell of a leap from where we are right now I would say LOL
 


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OfflineAzmodeus
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Re: America...our last hope? [Re: ruskifile]
    #1336963 - 02/26/03 07:48 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, im convinced we need some evolutionary change before a world "government" would work. Unfortunately i cant see it happening fast enough and we probably will destroy each other and have to rebuild from scratch....again.....

I was thinking though....if we had large..mabye continent sized coutries, and a "UN" military force and leardership that represents everyones best interest and keeps one from taking from the other, that might work....
But you still have people on this "UN" council or whatever that would steal, want more, etc....etc..until we are were we are today.


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