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Passengerr
Just another......



Registered: 07/10/10
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Re: "Jesus Christ died for our sins" ?? [Re: dr_gonz] 1
#13302779 - 10/07/10 08:13 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
dr_gonz said: Christians believe in a literal interpretation of the story 
Most of them do not know what they believe, how can we claim to know? They will probably tell you to ask their pastor.
The problem isn't that they don't know what they are talking about; getting them to admit it has always been the issue in this crater of the Bible belt.
I am not denying the possibility that The Bible holds true. We can remain open-minded about this fact and still hold utter disregard for you modern day fundamental Xtian; ancient text not to be confused with modern day morons.
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ManianFH
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Re: "Jesus Christ died for our sins" ?? [Re: Passengerr]
#13303709 - 10/07/10 12:28 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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I dont know whats true or not. I think to claim that you do is somewhat reckless thinking, which may or may not matter.
i.e. "That the bible is not literal truth... is a truth"
Regardless, the Christian religion, and more certainly the teachings of Jesus doesnt open any eyes when subject to bashing; the actions of some Christian sects/individuals behind it may be another story. But then again those types of people, if not clinging with every ounce of their being to Christianity, would just be doing it with something else if you enlightened them of the 'truth' (and that something might just be a bomb/gun if theyre dumb enough).
Its not the religion, its the people imo... why we hatin on the jeebus? hes a cool cat in my books (im agnostic).... and maybe he did die for our sins.
maybe he did get resurrected maybe he spent 3 days in hell us who fucking knows. i didnt make this rock, or solar system, universe, universes(?)...
that being said, my religion hatin days are over, its about love anyways. i dont care what people wanna believe, and even the idiots who take things too far, they have their reasons i guess, be it stupidity, obsessive compulsive tendencies, or other brain malfunctions.
/endtirade
-------------------- notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... " ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."
Edited by ManianFH (10/07/10 12:34 PM)
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Passengerr
Just another......



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Re: "Jesus Christ died for our sins" ?? [Re: ManianFH]
#13304219 - 10/07/10 02:14 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well put!! And quite brave in this time and place.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: "Jesus Christ died for our sins" ?? [Re: dr_gonz]
#13305009 - 10/07/10 05:17 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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The Christian gospels were created to fulfill a liturgical need in the early church. Mark, Matthew and Luke - the Synoptics ('same view'), contained stories which referred to the Jewish calendar year. Jesus was identified by these early Jewish-Christians both with the paschal lamb of passover, which the stories in the book of Exodus speaks of (the slain lamb's blood was daubed on the two doorposts and lintel of Jewish homes so that the angel of death would 'pass over' those homes. The Egyptian homes that did not do this resulted in the death of the first-born child of each home, according to that myth). The 3 spots of blood became transferred to the wrists and crossed feet of 'the lamb of God' - the Hebrew title for the Yom Kippur lamb without blemish, which was sacrificed on the Day of Atonement (or, At-one-ment), because it is sin that separates us from communion with God. Meanwhile, a second animal was sacrificed on Yom Kippur, also a lamb, but often a goat. The sins of the tribes were symbolically put on the animal, which was banished to the wilderness - the so-called 'scape goat.' All of these Hebrew liturgical references, and many, many more, were transferred to Jesus via the gospel stories. The gospels were liturgical references for religious services for the new Jewish-Christian communities, NOT historical events.
The crucifixion of Jesus is pregnant with symbolism, depending upon the gospel account (the Synoptics and the Johannine gospel). Jesus was suspended between heaven and earth, a symbolic inhabitant of both worlds. A complete solar eclipse was often painted in the middle ages to represent the darkness that occurred at the death of Jesus, but this was also an alchemical reference of the Conjunction of Solar and Lunar elements - the Philosophers' Stone (Ha-tha Yoga means Sun-Moon Yoga, or Union). He was suspended between the 'good' thief and the 'bad' thief - more Conjunctios. The veil of the temple which separated the Holy-of-Holies, was torn from top to bottom, meaning from heaven to earth, and now the Holy was open not only to the High Priest but to everyone. Then, depending on the gospel, graves opened, dead resurrected, and other portents occurred. This is high myth, NOT history, it is delusion to think it is history, not a proof of faith. Faith is a non-rational mode of apprehension, but delusional thinking is just irrational. Death, Descent to the Underworld, Resurrection, Ascension. These phases were derived more from the antiquity of Egyptian myth of Osiris, and are midrashic as well as mythic.
The theology which developed is called 'vicarious sacrifice,' in which 'Jesus died for your sins,' because Jesus became the new 'lamb of God' after the Jerusalem temple was finally destroyed in 70 CE, and temple Judaism (with its bloody sacrificial rituals) ended. Jesus became 'the lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world' in the same symbolic way that the 'scape goat/lamb' took away the sins of the world when it was banished into the wilderness (like Jesus when he fasted from the world for 40 days (more symbolism, like the Deluge which rained for 40 days and 40 nights, or the 40 years of wandering in the desert) and was tempted by the devil. He overcame the world of temptations. All these things are highly symbolic and closely follow the themes of Jewish ritual and liturgy. The Jewish Bible, the Tenach, was everywhere as symbolic. Very very little of anything in biblical writ is actually historical. Let's leave the long history of human ignorance please, and understand these things with a mentality which values faith as a way of Knowing, but also with a mentality which remains reasonable. People encountered God in the person of Jesus, just what they discovered was a fully human being, not a supernatural and unique specie. These things are Jewish midrash and mythic embellishment. Jesus MUST be demythologized if one is to get close to the truth of the matter, the Truth about the man, and what this means for human development.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (10/07/10 06:02 PM)
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Nunbuh_Chrubble
I'm just a kittycat


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Markos I love you.
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"This day is a lover..." ~Rumi
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dr_gonz
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Simulacra541
Nobody


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I remember a time sitting in Bible/theology class back in high school wondering about that very thing Markos. My sophomore year focused on the old testament and it's link to the new testament. And I had to do so many papers and studies about how Jesus is for shadowed in the Old Testament as the Lamb, or as the nation of Israel. And I remember thinking "does anyone else think maybe the New Testament writers wrote these parallels intentionally?" That there may have been some other motives. Because most Christians treat these parallels as a miracle. As if the writers had no clue they were there.
I don't think bashing religions does any good, the bad things people say about Christianity is only a reflection of the ego/flesh that still exists in the people who belong to that religion. Not to mention harboring ill will towards anything is only going to hurt you more in the end.
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Passengerr
Just another......



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Re: "Jesus Christ died for our sins" ?? [Re: dr_gonz]
#13306728 - 10/08/10 12:53 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Unfortunately, none of us were there when the Bible was written; therefore, we cannot state any of these thoughts as fact. Even a great deal of Marcos' post is merely speculation (articulate and masterful though it may be).
I usually fix this problem by simply inserting an "I think" or a "What if" into the sentence; for instance,
"What if a great deal of scriptural writ is literal as well as being a foreshadowing of things to come; it is a book of prophecies, yes?"
This lets everyone on the board know that I am not under the assumption that I know things only God himself could know; for that, fellow nomads, would be admitting my insanity to everyone here.
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doctordarkmatter
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Re: "Jesus Christ died for our sins" ?? [Re: Passengerr]
#13307956 - 10/08/10 09:52 AM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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...............WITCH!!!! Burn em at the stake.
Edited by doctordarkmatter (10/08/10 03:28 PM)
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Parkseerf



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stake*
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doctordarkmatter
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Re: "Jesus Christ died for our sins" ?? [Re: Parkseerf]
#13309304 - 10/08/10 03:30 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks for the catch. Spell check = no forum humiliation.
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dr_gonz
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doctordarkmatter
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Re: "Jesus Christ died for our sins" ?? [Re: dr_gonz]
#13309905 - 10/08/10 06:15 PM (13 years, 4 months ago) |
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that's impossible, They would have mauled his corpse 100 times over if that was the case.
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