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 Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long)  [Re: ObliviousSeeker]
#13318633 - 10/10/10 10:54 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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To say that the bible endorses slavery as we think of slavery is completely off the beam.
No it's not. The bible is very clear on this:
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. (Exodus 21:7-11)
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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 ObliviousSeeker
Stranger
Registered: 08/25/06
Posts: 198
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: Diploid]
#13318739 - 10/10/10 11:21 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Understanding context is really important because this is a complicated issue. This is an issue exclusively of the Jews in ancient Israel. People in poverty had the option to sell their daughters for money, often giving them an opportunity for a better life than what they would currently have. To get married and improve their standard of living, not diminish it. Just by reading it we see that there are strict conditions in the situation so as to keep the practice totally humane and not abusive in any way. This is nothing like going to a neighboring country, killing all the men and taking their boys and women as slaves to rape and beat and use for hard labor. Context, context, context.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: ObliviousSeeker]
#13318763 - 10/10/10 11:26 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Context, context, context.
Missing, missing, missing.
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All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: ObliviousSeeker]
#13318780 - 10/10/10 11:31 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Context? Are you serious? That's such a patent rationalization, it's really kinda hilarious.
Lemme see if I have this right. Someone is too poor to feed his children, but he had a baby girl anyway. Then, to give his daughter a better life, he sells her to some stranger. But the servitude is not even temporary for six years like it is for male slaves but for life. And you call that a "better life"? The father should have bashed her head in. That would be a better life than a state of continual rape.
Man, again no disrespect at you but your god is a sadistic flaming asshole, and context has nothing to do with it.
I can't believe you're sitting there defending that. 
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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totallymyhat
Dr. Mr. Mrs. Prof. Skulhed Face
Registered: 09/11/10
Posts: 93
Loc: 
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: Diploid]
#13318857 - 10/10/10 11:49 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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I believe as far as the African slave trade went, whites purchased slaves from tribal leaders. Or is this out of context? Anyway, the bible lays out a humane way of selling your daughter? Good to know.
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"When we are dead seek not our tomb in the earth, but find it in the hearts of men." -Rumi
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: fivepointer]
#13318877 - 10/10/10 11:56 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Because you can not comprehend God's standard of righteousness and judgment
But you do, right? Because you spout it here all the time. 
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: ObliviousSeeker]
#13319334 - 10/11/10 02:46 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
ObliviousSeeker said:
Context, context, context.
Quote:
fireworks_god said:
Seems to be a pretty flawed and relatively pointless doctrine without any kind of credible basis. 
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
 
 
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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 Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: ObliviousSeeker]
#13319511 - 10/11/10 05:36 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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I'm a 'Spongian' from beginning to end. Read Liberating the Gospels: Reading the Bible With Jewish Eyes, then get back to me. I've read Edwards and Calvin among others. No joy in them. Pathological in their Matthewian hell-fire trip as far as I'm concerned. All scriptures the world over are considered to be revelatory, the word of God. If you think Christian writings are unique, then you too are lodged in an egocentric and hence pre-adolescent world view. Everyone grows older, growing up is optional.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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ObliviousSeeker
Stranger
Registered: 08/25/06
Posts: 198
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: Diploid]
#13319965 - 10/11/10 09:51 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
Context? Are you serious? That's such a patent rationalization, it's really kinda hilarious.
Lemme see if I have this right. Someone is too poor to feed his children, but he had a baby girl anyway. Then, to give his daughter a better life, he sells her to some stranger. But the servitude is not even temporary for six years like it is for male slaves but for life. And you call that a "better life"? The father should have bashed her head in. That would be a better life than a state of continual rape.
Man, again no disrespect at you but your god is a sadistic flaming asshole, and context has nothing to do with it.
I can't believe you're sitting there defending that.
Think about this a little bit and you'll realize this isn't a heinous act of inhumane abuse like people just assume it is because the word slave is involved.
1) Only a poor person would sell their children
2) Poor people can't provide for their children so selling them to a prosperous person would give them a better life
3) This practice was done within the Jewish state of Israel. They're not selling their daughters to just strangers who want to rape women all day. They're selling them to their own Jewish brethren who have much more wealth and need people to work for them.
4) The new servants are provided for and get to improve their standards of living.
5) As for the maidservants, if they get married to their owners son they are no longer to be considered maidservants but rather as daughters
6) It's not like they never see their children again. These people are all Jews they aren't going to treat each other like jerks.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: ObliviousSeeker]
#13320078 - 10/11/10 10:28 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Man, I can't even respond to that. 
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: Diploid]
#13320089 - 10/11/10 10:32 AM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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 When you gotta believe you'll find a way. Hasn't that been proven here on a daily basis.
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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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totallymyhat
Dr. Mr. Mrs. Prof. Skulhed Face
Registered: 09/11/10
Posts: 93
Loc:
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: Icelander]
#13320736 - 10/11/10 01:01 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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So it's cool then if I have a daughter and sell her for money, as long as their like-minded folk? Got it. Now onto homosexuality, how does the one true god justify persecuting people who go to extraordinary lengths for the sake of experiencing the love he created? I'm sure it's humane. What about commanding his followers to kill people, especially relatives, that don't believe in his love?
Quote:
Icelander said:
When you gotta believe you'll find a way. Hasn't that been proven here on a daily basis.
Precisely.
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"When we are dead seek not our tomb in the earth, but find it in the hearts of men." -Rumi
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: ObliviousSeeker] 1
#13321313 - 10/11/10 02:58 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Dear ObliviousSeeker,
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's word. I have learned a great deal from you, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific parts of His word and how to follow them.
1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19-24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? -Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal.
Your devoted disciple and adoring fan, Dip.
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck
Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: Diploid]
#13322362 - 10/11/10 06:41 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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That looks... familiar. 
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andrewss
precariously aggrandized
Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 8,725
Loc: ohio
Last seen: 8 months, 19 days
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: NetDiver]
#13322427 - 10/11/10 06:55 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Jesus loves you.
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: NetDiver]
#13322688 - 10/11/10 08:02 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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It's well known satire. 
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Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck
Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: andrewss]
#13323211 - 10/11/10 09:33 PM (13 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
andrewss said:
this thread is
You forgot 
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