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OfflineObliviousSeeker
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Registered: 08/25/06
Posts: 184
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long)
    #13306672 - 10/08/10 02:36 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I've had this account before becoming Christian which is roughly 3 years now.  I've smoked DMT, taken strong acid and ate mushrooms 20+ times.  I mention this not because I am proud of it but because I want people reading this to know.   

I have noticed that the majority negative feelings toward Christianity originate with bad experiences with religion.  The primary culprit is Catholicism.  I went to Catholic school until 4th grade so I understand.

This post is not about documenting the unbiblical behavior of the Catholic church.  It is to present the biblical doctrines of grace to you. 

The Doctrines of Grace (5 points of Calvinism)

Calvinism is based upon Sola Scriptura (the bible alone as the final authority for doctrine).  All conclusions come from sound exegesis of scripture only. 

    Basically, Calvinism is known by an acronym: T.U.L.I.P.

    Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
    Unconditional Election
    Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
    Irresistible Grace
    Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

      These five categories do not comprise Calvinism in totality. They simply represent some of its main points.

      Total Depravity:
      Sin has affected all parts of man. The heart, emotions, will, mind, and body are all affected by sin. We are completely sinful. We are not as sinful as we could be, but we are completely affected by sin.
      The doctrine of Total Depravity is derived from scriptures that reveal human character: Man’s heart is evil (Mark 7:21-23) and sick (Jer. 17:9). Man is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:20). He does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12). He cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14). He is at enmity with God (Eph. 2:15). And, is by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3). The Calvinist asks the question, "In light of the scriptures that declare man’s true nature as being utterly lost and incapable, how is it possible for anyone to choose or desire God?" The answer is, "He cannot. Therefore God must predestine."
    Calvinism also maintains that because of our s fallen nature we are born again not by our own will but God’s will (John 1:12-13); God grants that we believe (Phil. 1:29); faith is the work of God (John 6:28-29); God appoints people to believe (Acts 13:48); and God predestines (Eph. 1:1-11; Rom. 8:29; 9:9-23).

      Unconditional Election:
    God does not base His election on anything He sees in the individual. He chooses the elect according to the kind intention of His will (Eph. 1:4-8; Rom. 9:11) without any consideration of merit within the individual. Nor does God look into the future to see who would pick Him. Also, as some are elected into salvation, others are not (Rom. 9:15, 21).

      Limited Atonement:
    Jesus died only for the elect. Though Jesus’ sacrifice was sufficient for all, it was not efficacious for all. Jesus only bore the sins of the elect. Support for this position is drawn from such scriptures as Matt. 26:28 where Jesus died for ‘many'; John 10:11, 15 which say that Jesus died for the sheep (not the goats, per Matt. 25:32-33); John 17:9 where Jesus in prayer interceded for the ones given Him, not those of the entire world; Acts 20:28 and Eph. 5:25-27 which state that the Church was purchased by Christ, not all people; and Isaiah 53:12 which is a prophecy of Jesus’ crucifixion where he would bore the sins of many (not all).

      Irresistible Grace:
    When God calls his elect into salvation, they cannot resist. God offers to all people the gospel message. This is called the external call. But to the elect, God extends an internal call and it cannot be resisted. This call is by the Holy Spirit who works in the hearts and minds of the elect to bring them to repentance and regeneration whereby they willingly and freely come to God. Some of the verses used in support of this teaching are Romans 9:16 where it says that "it is not of him who wills nor of him who runs, but of God who has mercy"; Philippians 2:12-13 where God is said to be the one working salvation in the individual; John 6:28-29 where faith is declared to be the work of God; Acts 13:48 where God appoints people to believe; and John 1:12-13 where being born again is not by man’s will, but by God’s.

      Perseverance of the Saints:
    You cannot lose your salvation. Because the Father has elected, the Son has redeemed, and the Holy Spirit has applied salvation, those thus saved are eternally secure. They are eternally secure in Christ. Some of the verses for this position are John 10:27-28 where Jesus said His sheep will never perish; John 6:47 where salvation is described as everlasting life; Romans 8:1 where it is said we have passed out of judgment; 1 Corinthians 10:13 where God promises to never let us be tempted beyond what we can handle; and Phil. 1:6 where God is the one being faithful to perfect us until the day of Jesus’ return.

taken from: http://www.mslick.com/tulip.htm
additional resources: http://www.monergism.com

"3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves." Ephesians 1:3-6


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Posts: 14,794
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: ObliviousSeeker]
    #13306823 - 10/08/10 03:17 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Smelly poop.

:penis:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Offlinetotallymyhat
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #13307098 - 10/08/10 04:27 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I think it's commendable that you try to focus on the positive aspects of your religion. It seems to give you much fulfillment. Also it appears that sharing this is derived from thoughtful and well-meaning intentions. However, how do you justify simply picking and choosing which parts you adhere to? How would you respond to say... Leviticus? There are no doubt many positive verses throughout the Bible, but there are equally many atrocious. I think many people's objections to Christianity have to do with the fact that the grace you speak so highly of, is/has been used to persecute nearly every imaginable group of people.


--------------------
"When we are dead seek not our tomb in the earth, but find it in the hearts of men."  -Rumi


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: ObliviousSeeker]
    #13307237 - 10/08/10 05:47 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ObliviousSeeker said:
It is to present the biblical doctrines of grace to you. 




Seems to be a pretty flawed and relatively pointless doctrine without any kind of credible basis. :shrug:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: totallymyhat]
    #13307283 - 10/08/10 06:29 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

yes, but leviticus seems to be inapplicable to the christian per the "he who is without sin" speech of the J man and his coming having fulfilled the old covenant- which he talks about somewhere.


Of course, the nutters still like to quote it to condemn homosexuality and whatnot, but if your just going off the text and ignoring the teachings of the various jesus clubs, it does seem fair to ignore the old testiment's laws- at least those Mosses and friends made


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #13307355 - 10/08/10 07:21 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Smelly poop.

:penis:




Wow.

:facepalm:


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...



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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: AlphaFalfa]
    #13307361 - 10/08/10 07:25 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Oh no, alfafalfa got offended, I wonder how I am going to live with this! :frown:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineAlphaFalfa
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: ObliviousSeeker]
    #13307375 - 10/08/10 07:34 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ObliviousSeeker said:
I've had this account before becoming Christian which is roughly 3 years now.  I've smoked DMT, taken strong acid and ate mushrooms 20+ times.  I mention this not because I am proud of it but because I want people reading this to know.   

I have noticed that the majority negative feelings toward Christianity originate with bad experiences with religion.  The primary culprit is Catholicism.  I went to Catholic school until 4th grade so I understand.

This post is not about documenting the unbiblical behavior of the Catholic church.  It is to present the biblical doctrines of grace to you. 

The Doctrines of Grace (5 points of Calvinism)

Calvinism is based upon Sola Scriptura (the bible alone as the final authority for doctrine).  All conclusions come from sound exegesis of scripture only. 

    Basically, Calvinism is known by an acronym: T.U.L.I.P.

    Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
    Unconditional Election
    Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
    Irresistible Grace
    Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)

      These five categories do not comprise Calvinism in totality. They simply represent some of its main points.

      Total Depravity:
      Sin has affected all parts of man. The heart, emotions, will, mind, and body are all affected by sin. We are completely sinful. We are not as sinful as we could be, but we are completely affected by sin.
      The doctrine of Total Depravity is derived from scriptures that reveal human character: Man’s heart is evil (Mark 7:21-23) and sick (Jer. 17:9). Man is a slave of sin (Rom. 6:20). He does not seek for God (Rom. 3:10-12). He cannot understand spiritual things (1 Cor. 2:14). He is at enmity with God (Eph. 2:15). And, is by nature a child of wrath (Eph. 2:3). The Calvinist asks the question, "In light of the scriptures that declare man’s true nature as being utterly lost and incapable, how is it possible for anyone to choose or desire God?" The answer is, "He cannot. Therefore God must predestine."
    Calvinism also maintains that because of our s fallen nature we are born again not by our own will but God’s will (John 1:12-13); God grants that we believe (Phil. 1:29); faith is the work of God (John 6:28-29); God appoints people to believe (Acts 13:48); and God predestines (Eph. 1:1-11; Rom. 8:29; 9:9-23).

      Unconditional Election:
    God does not base His election on anything He sees in the individual. He chooses the elect according to the kind intention of His will (Eph. 1:4-8; Rom. 9:11) without any consideration of merit within the individual. Nor does God look into the future to see who would pick Him. Also, as some are elected into salvation, others are not (Rom. 9:15, 21).

      Limited Atonement:
    Jesus died only for the elect. Though Jesus’ sacrifice was sufficient for all, it was not efficacious for all. Jesus only bore the sins of the elect. Support for this position is drawn from such scriptures as Matt. 26:28 where Jesus died for ‘many'; John 10:11, 15 which say that Jesus died for the sheep (not the goats, per Matt. 25:32-33); John 17:9 where Jesus in prayer interceded for the ones given Him, not those of the entire world; Acts 20:28 and Eph. 5:25-27 which state that the Church was purchased by Christ, not all people; and Isaiah 53:12 which is a prophecy of Jesus’ crucifixion where he would bore the sins of many (not all).

      Irresistible Grace:
    When God calls his elect into salvation, they cannot resist. God offers to all people the gospel message. This is called the external call. But to the elect, God extends an internal call and it cannot be resisted. This call is by the Holy Spirit who works in the hearts and minds of the elect to bring them to repentance and regeneration whereby they willingly and freely come to God. Some of the verses used in support of this teaching are Romans 9:16 where it says that "it is not of him who wills nor of him who runs, but of God who has mercy"; Philippians 2:12-13 where God is said to be the one working salvation in the individual; John 6:28-29 where faith is declared to be the work of God; Acts 13:48 where God appoints people to believe; and John 1:12-13 where being born again is not by man’s will, but by God’s.

      Perseverance of the Saints:
    You cannot lose your salvation. Because the Father has elected, the Son has redeemed, and the Holy Spirit has applied salvation, those thus saved are eternally secure. They are eternally secure in Christ. Some of the verses for this position are John 10:27-28 where Jesus said His sheep will never perish; John 6:47 where salvation is described as everlasting life; Romans 8:1 where it is said we have passed out of judgment; 1 Corinthians 10:13 where God promises to never let us be tempted beyond what we can handle; and Phil. 1:6 where God is the one being faithful to perfect us until the day of Jesus’ return.

taken from: http://www.mslick.com/tulip.htm
additional resources: http://www.monergism.com

"3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves." Ephesians 1:3-6





God can't exist with desire and be all powerful and/or benevolent. Read some of the threads going on now about god for further explanation.

Religion is really just a way to control poor people from mutiny, from banding and violently taking from the rich, without the rich having to forcefully protect themselves.

Really, imagine, your a peasant poor, malnourished, working long hours, you witness enough riches in one rich man to free a village from slavery, you know that to attain those riches, you must be violent and kill. The rich guy however, forces upon you the notion that killing sends you to an eternity of burning and torture...you figure, hey might as well just struggle it out, when I get to heaven it will be my turn for the riches.

Many instances in the bible show praise to the poor. Indeed, many gospels directly speak about paying taxes and money.

It really makes plenty of sense, especially considering that the rich controlled centralized forms of education unlike today, making that way easier a way to control masses of pissed and angry impoverished slaves to keep tilling their fields making their bread, butter, meats, veggies, wine, drugs, producing fine sexual specimens, etc etc.

I know that this is probally alot to swallow, heck its been difficult for me to do so in about a years time.

Quote:

Jesus Talks About Paying Taxes
24 When Jesus and his followers came to Capernaum, the men who collected the Temple tax came to Peter. They asked, "Does your teacher pay the Temple tax?"

25 Peter answered, "Yes, Jesus pays the tax."

  Peter went into the house, but before he could speak, Jesus said to him, "What do you think? The kings of the earth collect different kinds of taxes. But who pays the taxes—the king's children or others?"

26 Peter answered, "Other people pay the taxes."

  Jesus said to Peter, "Then the children of the king don't have to pay taxes. 27 But we don't want to upset these tax collectors. So go to the lake and fish. After you catch the first fish, open its mouth and you will find a coin. Take that coin and give it to the tax collectors for you and me."




Quote:

Luke 20:20-40
Paying Taxes to Caesar
Keeping a close watch 20 on him, they sent spies, who pretended to be honest.
They hoped to catch Jesus in something he said so that they might hand him over
to the power and authority of the governor. 21 So the spies questioned him:
“Teacher, we know that you speak and teach what is right, and that you do not
show partiality but teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. 22 Is it right
for us to pay taxes to Caesar or not?”
23 He saw through their duplicity and said to them, 24 “Show me a denarius.
Whose portrait and inscription are on it?”
25 “Caesar’s,” they replied.
He said to them, “Then give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is
God’s.”
26 They were unable to trap him in what he had said there in public. And
astonished by his answer, they became silent.




:cheers:


--------------------
if you ever feel lost, just remember, life is not a journey, it is entertainment, all 4 fun...



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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #13307536 - 10/08/10 09:12 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Smelly poop.

:penis:




:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinetotallymyhat
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: johnm214]
    #13307632 - 10/08/10 09:57 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

johnm214 said:
Of course, the nutters still like to quote it to condemn homosexuality and whatnot, but if your just going off the text and ignoring the teachings of the various jesus clubs, it does seem fair to ignore the old testiment's laws- at least those Mosses and friends made




Granted, but I thought Jesus endorsed the old testament? Like in early Matthew?


--------------------
"When we are dead seek not our tomb in the earth, but find it in the hearts of men."  -Rumi


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OfflineObliviousSeeker
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: totallymyhat]
    #13309009 - 10/08/10 04:19 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

totallymyhat said:
I think it's commendable that you try to focus on the positive aspects of your religion. It seems to give you much fulfillment. Also it appears that sharing this is derived from thoughtful and well-meaning intentions. However, how do you justify simply picking and choosing which parts you adhere to? How would you respond to say... Leviticus? There are no doubt many positive verses throughout the Bible, but there are equally many atrocious. I think many people's objections to Christianity have to do with the fact that the grace you speak so highly of, is/has been used to persecute nearly every imaginable group of people.




The bible commands us to love our neighbor as we love ourselves.  Jesus said "All of the Law and the prophets hangs on this command." 

I don't quite understand what you mean when you say grace has been used to persecute people since grace is, well, grace.  Forgiveness and grace and patience are just some of the many positive attitudes the bible instructs its readers with. 

But we are also given serious warnings from the bible and it is expected that bad things will come, even things that pretend to be good, religious, or Godly, but are not.
"Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour." (1 John 2:18)

Last night at my church's bible study I met a young man named Nate who has been living in Cairo, Egypt for many years now.  He is only 25 and gave a presentation for us.  He has moved there because of his love for Jesus Christ and the gospel and his passion for going to children in need.  Cairo has a population of 22 million people and there are hundreds of thousands of "street kids" there.  This is an example of a true Christian who is in love with Jesus.

The things of this world, the material things, are all passing away and will not last.  But the rewards of doing the will of God lasts for eternity.  Salvation comes by faith alone in Christ alone.  But we have the opportunity to reap unimaginable rewards in eternity by laying down our own lives for the lives of others and to follow Christ.


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: ObliviousSeeker]
    #13310039 - 10/08/10 08:52 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I too hold to the Doctrines of Grace, the one and only true gospel.

All those semi-Pelagians, and those TOLERANT of semi-Pelagians, are lost and DO NOT have the truth.

This includes Charles Spurgeon, who called John Wesley a brother.  Wesley was dead set against grace and devoted his life to crushing it.  Instead of denouncing Wesley as a heretic, Spurgeon joined Wesley in crushing true grace by making it a non-essential doctrine.  Any true Christian would have denounced Wesley and Spurgeon.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: fivepointer]
    #13310293 - 10/08/10 09:55 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

:ass::poop:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: Icelander]
    #13312869 - 10/09/10 03:26 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

You need to repent and believe the gospel.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: ObliviousSeeker]
    #13313950 - 10/09/10 09:28 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I have noticed that the majority negative feelings toward Christianity originate with bad experiences with religion.  The primary culprit is Catholicism.  I went to Catholic school until 4th grade so I understand.



Actually, I had rather positive experiences at the Catholic High School I attended.  Calvinism, on the other hand, strikes me as most offensive and perverse interpretation of Christianity I've ever heard.  We're supposed to believe that God created billions of people with the express intention of sending the vast majority of them to be tortured for eternity, and there's nothing any of them can do about it?  That's pretty psychotic if you ask me, though I could see it making for great horror fiction.  I actually wonder if H. P. Lovecraft was covertly promoting Calvinism with his Cthulhu mythos.


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: Silversoul]
    #13314020 - 10/09/10 09:48 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I guess you weren't an alter boy.:lol:

I do agree about the fivepointers... er... Calvinists.:satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinetotallymyhat
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Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: Icelander]
    #13314357 - 10/09/10 11:42 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

ObliviousSeeker said:
The bible commands us to love our neighbor as we love ourselves.  Jesus said "All of the Law and the prophets hangs on this command." 




I don't "follow" the bible. It's mythology. There is more evidence for the existence of Harry Potter than Jesus.

Quote:

I don't quite understand what you mean when you say grace has been used to persecute people since grace is, well, grace.  Forgiveness and grace and patience are just some of the many positive attitudes the bible instructs its readers with.




I was being sarcastic. Christians have gracefully killed millions. I know, I know, those christians were "led astray". Yet they read the exact same book. If interpretation is so vital to "getting it right" why did god contradict himself so much?

Quote:

But we are also given serious warnings from the bible and it is expected that bad things will come, even things that pretend to be good, religious, or Godly, but are not.
"Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour." (1 John 2:18)




I'm going to suffer eternal torment for not believing in your god's grace?

Quote:

Last night at my church's bible study I met a young man named Nate who has been living in Cairo, Egypt for many years now.  He is only 25 and gave a presentation for us.  He has moved there because of his love for Jesus Christ and the gospel and his passion for going to children in need.  Cairo has a population of 22 million people and there are hundreds of thousands of "street kids" there.  This is an example of a true Christian who is in love with Jesus.




Good for him. Sincerely. The world needs people like that. However, the effects of christianity can also have terrible consequences seeing as they claim to be the only source of morality and insist other countries adopt it. See: Rick Warren, Martin Ssempa in Uganda.

Question: Seeing as with Calvinism everything is predestined, doesn't that mean god knowingly created people he intends to torture forever regardless of their choices? Graceful.


--------------------
"When we are dead seek not our tomb in the earth, but find it in the hearts of men."  -Rumi


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: totallymyhat]
    #13314400 - 10/09/10 11:53 PM (11 years, 1 month ago)

I'm going to suffer eternal torment for not believing in your god's grace?

:lol:

My boy you will be condemned to burn for eternity by an all loving God.:hellfire:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinefivepointer
newbie
Registered: 08/03/02
Posts: 1,428
Last seen: 5 years, 25 days
Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: Icelander]
    #13314489 - 10/10/10 12:19 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

All who spend an eternity in Hell, DESERVE IT!  Even the saved deserve Hell, they get what they don't deserve GRACE!

There is no injustice in sending people to Hell.  God is the ultimate judge, all His judgments are true and right by definition.  Because you can not comprehend God's standard of righteousness and judgment you make God out to be the unjust one, when you are the unjust one with a perverse right/wrong standard.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
Elder
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/10/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida Flag
Last seen: 10 months, 5 minutes
Re: Christian theology: The doctrines of grace (long) [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #13314780 - 10/10/10 01:55 AM (11 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Smelly poop.





BIG Smelly poop.

Do I have to ignore yet another bigot. Christians, so-called, haven't the slightest clue that the gospels were written by and for Jewish Christians as liturgy for their new practices according to the Jewish calendar of holy days.
Augustine concocted Original Sin to make the church-controlled sacraments absolutely necessary for 'salvation,' since Christ was infused by the sacraments. Jesus would've held to Jewish theology of a Good and Evil Intention (Yetzer Tov and Yetzer Hara), not total depravity. This is a perverse doctrine. The legitimate Christian notions are from Jewish sources, the Hellenized aspects (like 'Incarnation' of God through a woman) is pure Greek mythology. That is why most Jews didn't accept the later Christian doctrines. They had their own mythology, and didn't want to go Greek. Besides mythology (which is sacred in its own right), there is metaphor and midrash, and metaphysics. Reading biblical material as literal or historical is delusional or puerile. Period. In either case, ignorance rules, and if it's delusional adults, they tend to be fanatical and dangerous. There is nothing Christ-like about any 'Christian' who does not simply love, but who judges and condemns others.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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