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 Shroomism
Space Travellin
 
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Loc: 9th Dimension
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 Perpetual Energy Devices 
#1327721 - 02/22/03 11:01 PM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Seeing as how this forum is now including science talk, I thought I'd bring this up.
Has there been a working free energy device developed? Nikola Tesla made the first one as far as I know, and his patents for it were denied and he was confronted by 'agents' who told him to never release it. I know this would essentially eliminate the oil industry but that's a good thing for the long term right?
So what do you see for the future? When do you think we will perfect this technology and begin using it in our everyday lives. I give it ten years, max.
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 Jaxx
Random muppet.
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 Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: Shroomism]
#1327915 - 02/23/03 02:08 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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I read about a device a while ago, cant remember who invented it but it wasnt Nikola Tesla. It created negative energy which is said to freeze things rather than heat them when it runs through, it still heats lightbulb filaments for some reason though. I think it was from the zero point floating energy of space or something along those lines (I dont understand it). I dont believe that free energy devices will be availiable to the general public until all fossil fuels are gone and the oil companys lose their hold on the energy industry.
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If you were to draw a continuous straight line with a standard graphite pencil the line would stretch for 35 miles.
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ToxicMan
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: Shroomism]
#1328101 - 02/23/03 05:15 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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I have yet to hear of a free energy device that wasn't a fraud. I'll believe in it when I see one work with my own eyes and it is investigated by authoritative individuals.
Here is a quick page I found on the topic which mentions a few of the clear frauds in this area.
Does all that mean I think it's impossible? No, but I am going to be skeptical, especially since I know this is an area that has harbored frauds in the past.
If somebody somes up with the real thing it will be great. Except for the energy industry. And I won't mind seeing those bastards get theirs (Enron anybody?).
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Xibalba
Stranger
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 Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: Jaxx]
#1328747 - 02/23/03 11:18 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
It created negative energy which is said to freeze things rather than heat them when it runs through, it still heats lightbulb filaments for some reason though
Reason: it was a poorly-thought-out hoax.
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Jaxx
Random muppet.
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: Xibalba]
#1328888 - 02/23/03 12:29 PM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Furry muff.
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If you were to draw a continuous straight line with a standard graphite pencil the line would stretch for 35 miles.
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Altec79
Stranger
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: Jaxx]
#1330580 - 02/24/03 04:14 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't think there is a viable perpetual energy device that is known to the general public. I know they have kept an electric current in a very efficent loop with superconductors at insanely low temperatures, but it was not perpetual and there was a measurable loss over time.
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TheHateCamel
Research &Development -DBK
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: Altec79]
#1335605 - 02/25/03 04:06 PM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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.
Edited by TheHateCamel (12/05/07 08:53 PM)
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Jackal
Well Versed In Etiquette
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: Shroomism]
#1336229 - 02/25/03 09:04 PM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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It seems your 10 year estimate could be quite accurate
Fusion
ITER Home Page
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Anno
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: TheHateCamel]
#1336456 - 02/26/03 12:35 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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>Agree?
No.
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psilo25
The one stuck inthe middle ofthis hopelessmess.
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: Shroomism]
#1336498 - 02/26/03 01:31 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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<------ I think thats a free energy device there in my avatar...the searlcraft
EDIT: well, that was a searlcraft in my avatar...that is until i changed it 
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Stand up for your freedoms, join the fight against the War on Drugs!
www.drcnet.org
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Edited by psilo25 (03/09/03 10:42 AM)
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TheHateCamel
Research &Development -DBK
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: Anno]
#1336943 - 02/26/03 05:39 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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.
Edited by TheHateCamel (12/05/07 08:53 PM)
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Eightball
whore consumer
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: Shroomism]
#1338858 - 02/26/03 07:44 PM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on.you'll see devils tearing your life away.
But...if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels
Freeing you from the earth.
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TheHateCamel
Research &Development -DBK
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: Eightball]
#1339756 - 02/27/03 06:37 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Cool page.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
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 Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: Eightball]
#1345752 - 03/01/03 07:20 PM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes very cool page
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Zero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: Shroomism]
#1350131 - 03/04/03 12:56 PM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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you might want to take a look at www.totse.com . a lot of people there that i think might enjoy discussions with shroomery members but a lot that probably wouldnt at all, but anyway. i bet theyve already came up with such machines, but anyone who made an attempt has been iradicated. it would mean too much of a loss to the oil companies. one day the govt. will claim that its scientists have discovered a brave new way making energy, thats pollution free and all nice. but of course we all know the govt. is full of crap. but it wont matter then, any attempts to say that it was someone else who had actually come up with the device will be seen in society as crazy or just another conspiracy theory. i heard not too long ago on the news that a guy in ireland or england was workign on a perpetual energy machine, but i havent seen any updates. totse has some interesting stories of scientists doing some crazy research and being raided or harassed by officials. who knows though really, too much disinformation to really get a grasp of this subject. but it shouldnt really matter now, the oil companies know what is going to happen. they are probably already working on monopolizing the techniques and information for such energy devices. think of the arch of the covenant, its said that if you stick it in between these point in, the pyramids of giza? that a huge energy will be released. maybe the arch is just a switch for tapping into the universal energy and channeling it into a source. i mean thats all we do now but a much less efficient way. nuclear fission, chemical reactions, etc. its would be sooo much more useful and humanitarian to simply channel the energy that is all around and everywhere, but the oil companies would be out! there would be no more world hunger, unless despots ruled the materials to construct the machines. so much could be solved if only energy were unlimited and unrestricted, well maybe not but thats branching too far off. who knows, i sure dont have any solid proof, but common sense is a powerful tool. i dont see why it would be so ludicrous to think that channeling energy is such an unlikely occurance.
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What?
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windex
old hand
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: Zero7a1]
#1357671 - 03/08/03 06:12 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Im going to have to dissagree with all of you, except the person who said such things may be 10 years off, although i think its more like 35-40 years (hopefull), or possibly never in our lifetime (which is more likly)
While technology has come far, to make such a device 2 simple things would need to be met, i say simple because they are very simple concepts, but removing them is another story.
Friction and Electrical Resistance
Considering air creates a tremendious ammount of friction all on its one, let alone any type of bearing or magnet, and any kind of electrical junction, (IE: any place two points connect) and even the smallest (say .00000001cm ammount of wire (even if we are talking the kind of wire that costs millions for a few cm's) has a resistance value
I belive anyone that has come up with one of these is a fruad, or just havnt done as extensive testing as they thought.
The reason the government wont except patants on such devices is because while the did they would receive so many, and none ever worked. Although i wouldnt put it past them to do so because of oil, but that wouldnt make much sense either... why continue to spend money on oil, even if they are reselling it for a higher price, why spend money to make a bit more? instead of having infinete power and making a lot more off of it?
Selling Price - Cost = Profit
So lets just use made up numbers and look at the difference in profit:
Oil:
$100 - $40 = $60 Profit
Infinant Energy:
100 - $10 = $90 profit? (gotta cost something for maintnece and such)
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Baby_Hitler
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: Anno]
#1361581 - 03/09/03 10:31 PM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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How about a perpetual motion machine involving capillary action?
The liquid rises up fine tubes, comes out the top, and flows back down.
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This space for rent
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Anno
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#1361640 - 03/09/03 11:59 PM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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All those machines are supposed to work by converting energy from one form to another (or from one energy level to another and back), and in addition to this the should produce surplus energy.
Ok, let?s assume one could convert the energy form to another without any losses.(which is not the case, but let?s assume it)
Lossless energy transformation:
Let?s make an example: Instead of using the term Energy, let?s take something that is more an everyday situation.
Let?s take a full bottle of beer and an empty identical one.
Now pour the content of the full bottle into the empty one. If you are careful, and you don?t spill any beer, then the second bottle will have as much beer in it as the first.
And now comes the part that is very obvious by itself, but many people don?t want to believe it:
You are thirsty. You again pour the beer from one bottle to the other, but every-time you do it, you take a nip from the beer.
After you have done this 20 times, what will happen?
The bottles will be both empty......
Edited by Anno (03/10/03 02:15 AM)
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zeronio
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: Zero7a1]
#1361733 - 03/10/03 02:03 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
i bet theyve already came up with such machines, but anyone who made an attempt has been iradicated. it would mean too much of a loss to the oil companies.
Imagine that someone invented such a machine. Why would such an invention be iradicated? The inventor could be in trouble but if an oil company gets in possesion of such thing why not release it? It would be much more profitable then oil. And by hiding it they'd risk that competition develops and starts selling it.
I'm quite sure it hasn't been invented. I would be very surprised even if someone seriously researches such things. Doesn't common sense tell you that you cannot get something from nothing?
Edited by zeronio (03/10/03 02:05 AM)
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Baby_Hitler
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: Anno]
#1363474 - 03/10/03 02:34 PM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah, basic physics. I understand that.
It's also theoretically impossible to turn heat energy into a higher form of energy unless you have an area of higher heat, and an area of lower heat as some of the heat moves from the hot side to the cold side some of it can be converted to, say, electricity.
So My Idea of an air-conditioner that produces a surplus of energy probably wouldn't work. 
But the capillary action machine seems like it would work, but where would the energy be coming from?
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Baby_Hitler
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: zeronio]
#1363479 - 03/10/03 02:35 PM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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You'd be amazed at some of the shit NASA throws money at.
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This space for rent
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ToxicMan
Bite me, it's fun!
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#1363923 - 03/10/03 05:30 PM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Here's a few thoughts on why the capillary action machine won't work.
The empty capillary is an energy basin. That is, when you place the end of the capillary tube into water (or whatever liquid), the water will rapidly flow into and fill the capillary. But once it's full, then what? The water will not just flow out the other end, you need to provide some energy to pull it through. But once the tube is full, the energy to pull the water through the tube nets out to zero from capillary action and should equal the gravitational potential between the two ends plus friction from the tube walls plus any turbulence effects (internal friction) from the water (I may be missing other sources of energy loss, but those are the obvious ones).
Or here's another way of saying it. Let's suppose the capillary tube is a meter long. When I put the end into the water, it pulls water up almost to the upper end. But once it's done that, the process rapidly comes to an equilibrium state where water is no longer moving. If I want to get some of the water out of the tube, it will take more energy to pull a drop out of the end than the energy involved in a one meter fall for the same mass. We know that because the capillary force must be greater than gravity or the water wouldn't have gone up that high in the tube. If we keep the lower end in the water basin while we pull (or push) the drop of water out, then the capillary force pulling in a new drop at the bottom should balance the energy required to remove a drop at the top. But we still have gravity and friction at work.
The main reason it looks like it might work is that you start with an empty capillary tube. You will get a much more accurate picture of the situation if you imagine beginning with the capillary tube already full. There's an initial gain of energy when the tube first fills. But once it's full there's no place to gain energy any more. And friction will quickly wipe out your initial gain.
Hope that's a helpful explanation of why it won't work. I know it isn't the best worded and it got to rambling on, but it's late and it's not for a class or anything like that.
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Happy mushrooming!
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Baby_Hitler
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: ToxicMan]
#1364112 - 03/10/03 07:12 PM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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But where did the energy to lift the water in the first place come from?
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 schmutzen
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: Shroomism]
#1364215 - 03/10/03 08:52 PM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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Point well proven Anno.
Shroomism, i don't think that in 10yrs. we'll even have our basic electric luxories, i think it's more about we become self-suffiicient, get wood stoves, take the bus, ride a bike or car pool. vegetable(or hemp) oil for biofuel, methane gas, solar power, windmills, vegetable gardening, organic food co-opperatives, less vacations, communities, limited usage-we could get by on a lot less, not forgetting to turn off your stereo, turn down the heat, small steps at time, i really live in a fantasy world. all of that will help but not support the population.
the only perpetual energy is livin' w/o corportate energy.
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"Blow up your TV, throw away your paper. Go to the country, build you a home."
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Shroomism
Space Travellin
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Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: schmutzen]
#1364441 - 03/11/03 12:45 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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The only thing that will save our world is to find alternative energy sources, now. 50 more years of this kind of pollution and we are done for. The Earth would get sick of it and wipe us out by then, no doubt. Anybody who lives in LA, DC, or New York, knows exactly what I'm talking about.
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ToxicMan
Bite me, it's fun!
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#1364563 - 03/11/03 02:24 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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The force involved in capillary action comes from chemical bonding between the fluid and the walls of the tube as well as similar bonding between the molecules of the fluid.
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Happy mushrooming!
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iconoclast
what nothing is,and to fill orrefill
Registered: 02/21/03
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: TheHateCamel]
#1365831 - 03/11/03 09:57 AM (21 years, 1 month ago) |
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energy cannot be created nor destroyed, just transformed. I think some people overlook this point. the only way to completely change matter to energy is with antimatter (George smoot "wrinkles in time"). to get all the energy from a electromagnetic wave (light) it would have to be sent through a complete vacuum, theoretically impossible. so i don't think we will ever have complete perpetual motion, although we could get infinently close. -just my 2 semi-informed cents-1C()/\/
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doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is an absurd one.
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Steven Dilley
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: Shroomism]
#16198914 - 05/08/12 08:35 AM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Hello friends,
Perpetual motion describes hypothetical machines that operate or produce useful work indefinitely and, more generally, hypothetical machines that produce more work or energy than they consume, whether they might operate indefinitely or not.
Best regards
Steve Dilley
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: Shroomism]  1
#16199937 - 05/08/12 01:50 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said:
Seeing as how this forum is now including science talk, I thought I'd bring this up.
Has there been a working free energy device developed? Nikola Tesla made the first one as far as I know, and his patents for it were denied and he was confronted by 'agents' who told him to never release it. I know this would essentially eliminate the oil industry but that's a good thing for the long term right?
So what do you see for the future? When do you think we will perfect this technology and begin using it in our everyday lives. I give it ten years, max.
Eight months left brah! 
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Baby_Hitler
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: DieCommie]
#16200142 - 05/08/12 02:45 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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This space for rent
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46 and 2
Zen Masta
Registered: 03/02/12
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#16201176 - 05/08/12 06:53 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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It's possible to use magnets to make a perpetual motor which uses a small portion of the energy generated to maintain the magnetic force of the motor.
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Even if it seems certain that you will lose, retaliate. Neither wisdom or technique has a place in this. A real man does not think of victory or defeat. He plunges recklessly towards an irrational death. By doing this, you will awaken from your dreams. - Tsunetomo Yamamoto
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: 46 and 2] 1
#16203453 - 05/09/12 04:48 AM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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> It's possible to use magnets to make a perpetual motor which uses a small portion of the energy generated to maintain the magnetic force of the motor.
Such a device is not possible.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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46 and 2
Zen Masta
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: Seuss]
#16203994 - 05/09/12 09:33 AM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Not perpetual, but you do get a bit of energy back from a single push. No different than wind turbines really. Nothing is perpetual.
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Even if it seems certain that you will lose, retaliate. Neither wisdom or technique has a place in this. A real man does not think of victory or defeat. He plunges recklessly towards an irrational death. By doing this, you will awaken from your dreams. - Tsunetomo Yamamoto
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: 46 and 2]
#16204001 - 05/09/12 09:35 AM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Well, you said perpetual.... You get a little energy back from the push, where is the energy that is doing the pushing come from?
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46 and 2
Zen Masta
Registered: 03/02/12
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: DieCommie]
#16205021 - 05/09/12 02:33 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Oops.
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Even if it seems certain that you will lose, retaliate. Neither wisdom or technique has a place in this. A real man does not think of victory or defeat. He plunges recklessly towards an irrational death. By doing this, you will awaken from your dreams. - Tsunetomo Yamamoto
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Stonehenge
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: 46 and 2]
#16205981 - 05/09/12 05:35 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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No need for perpetual energy, just learn how to do small scale continuous output fusion. There is all the fuel we will ever need in the ocean in the form of deuterium.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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DieCommie
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: Stonehenge]
#16206040 - 05/09/12 05:48 PM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
There is all the fuel we will ever need in the ocean in the form of deuterium.
At least, for our current lifestyle. If/when we get that energy I have no doubt we will find ways to use as much of it as we can. But that is pretty far off of course.
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Seuss
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: Stonehenge]
#16208575 - 05/10/12 04:57 AM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Stonehenge said:
No need for perpetual energy, just learn how to do small scale continuous output fusion. There is all the fuel we will ever need in the ocean in the form of deuterium.
On this, we agree. 
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Just another spore in the wind.
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Stonehenge
Alt Center
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Re: Perpetual Energy Devices [Re: Seuss]
#16209133 - 05/10/12 09:23 AM (11 years, 11 months ago) |
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>On this, we agree.
Alright! and even dc is mostly in agreement. A kumbaya moment.
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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)
Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755
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