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InvisibleGreen_T
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Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 4,042
Loc: UK Flag
Study: Drug Legalization Could Save $88 Billion
    #13271128 - 09/30/10 04:29 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Study: Drug Legalization Could Save $88 Billion
September 30, 2010 - Change.org

Although approval for marijuana legalization may be high, the thought of legalizing all banned drugs is a little too liberal for most, even many pro-pot activists. But it’s said that everything has a price tag, and a new study from the Cato Institute offers some cost analysis that could serve to change a few people’s minds, particularly in light of the current economic crisis.

According to the Budgetary Impact of Ending Drug Prohibition, all-out legalization would lead to an estimated $46.7 billion increase in overall government revenue and a cost savings of $41.3 billion from no longer having to convict and incarcerate drug offenders—a total impact of a whopping $88 billion.

The study, from Harvard University economist Jeffrey A. Miron and New York University graduate student Katherine Waldock, provides an interesting look at the real cost of the drug war, and though the authors make no sweeping summarization in support of ending drug prohibition (Miron saves that for his commentary in The Los Angeles Times), their numbers seem to suggest such a drastic overhaul would be fiscally responsible if nothing else.

The figures on cost savings were generated using U.S. Department of Justice data and involved gathering information on arrests, convictions, and incarcerations at the local, state, and federal levels. The number of drug arrests were evaluated with the police budget, the number of convictions with the budgets of judiciaries and prosecutors, and the number of inmates incarcerated for drug crimes was weighted with the corrections budgets.

What they found was that among the annual estimated savings of $41.3 billion, $8.7 billion of the savings would come from marijuana legalization, $20 billion from cocaine and heroin, and $12.6 billion from “other drugs." (Read more after the jump.)

Some of the savings would come from the more than 1.8 million annual drug arrests that would never happen, just under 13 percent of all arrests nationwide. The study's figures indicate that 34 percent of all felony convictions are for drug charges and that 19.5 percent of incarcerated inmates are locked up for drug offenses, all significant numbers considering the fact that more than 2 million Americans are behind bars.

Although the study takes into consideration court ordered fines which serve to offset some of the costs of the drug war, those fines are little more than a dent in the $50 billion total in expenditures.

If drug prohibition was to end, it is assumed the drugs would be taxed similarly to both alcohol and tobacco in what’s referred to by our paternal government as a “sin” tax. The revenue would then come from taxes collected on the production and the sale of the drugs, but also in increased income tax revenue by producers entering into legitimate production and distribution operations.

In all, this new income base for governments at the local, state and federal level is estimated to bring in $46.7 billion per year. Perhaps surprisingly, 70 percent of that income would come from the production and sale of heroin and cocaine, with marijuana accounting for only 19 percent.

Is it likely that we will see a complete end to the drug war in our lifetime? It’s doubtful. Does the huge fiscal impact warrant complete legalization? Even that is debatable. But there’s no denying that the current routine isn’t working to reduce drug use or addiction and it certainly isn’t having a positive impact on crime rates and the overburdened justice system overall.

Download the study from cato.org (4MB)


--------------------

"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson

Legalize Meth | Drug War Victims

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InvisibleFleshCap
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Registered: 11/10/08
Posts: 685
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Re: Study: Drug Legalization Could Save $88 Billion [Re: Green_T]
    #13271307 - 09/30/10 05:08 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I'm seeing a lot of extreme perspectives and arguments. I think when it comes to drug policy reform the answer lies in the middle.legalization  may save money on enforcement, but will lead to other costs related to addiction treatment. It's not as simple as some would like us to believe.


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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,379
Re: Study: Drug Legalization Could Save $88 Billion [Re: Green_T]
    #13271336 - 09/30/10 05:13 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I didn't read through the study, but from the abstract it appears they may have only calculated the savings from full legalization.

It would be interesting to see an analysis of the costs from doing so.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Offlineauronlives69
psychedelic monk
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Re: Study: Drug Legalization Could Save $88 Billion [Re: Green_T]
    #13271507 - 09/30/10 05:59 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

i say legalize everything educate the public on the potential addiction and risks ~no bullshit propaganda~ and let the people decide wether they should do it or not
they get hooked and od ohh well too bad so sad you knew what could happen nobody lives forever life goes on for like billions of people
we shouldn't have to be babied by the government on every god dammed aspect of our lives, i mean drugs have only been illegal for like 40/50 years
what about 250,000 years of people eating wild mushrooms, pyote, herbs toking up opium, weed, tobacco, i mean humans found a way to get by on their own for a good while

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InvisibleAnastomosisJihad
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Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 700
Loc: Ohio
Re: Study: Drug Legalization Could Save $88 Billion [Re: auronlives69]
    #13271535 - 09/30/10 06:09 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah really, 88 bazillian to unsuccessfully enforce a silly taboo.


--------------------
come together

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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Study: Drug Legalization Could Save $88 Billion [Re: badchad]
    #13271731 - 09/30/10 06:51 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Well, I must be getting a tiny bit better because I deleted off a whole page RANT for:

A lot of people don't want to hear anymore about costs of treatment for addiction. How about not a dime of public money for the teatment of addiction? How about that.

(I hope if it pleases you, that you can vividly imagine the rest :lol:)


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."

"When psychotomimetics become cultural, so does cultural psychosis"

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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,379
Re: Study: Drug Legalization Could Save $88 Billion [Re: curenado]
    #13272049 - 09/30/10 07:43 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

curenado said:
Well, I must be getting a tiny bit better because I deleted off a whole page RANT for:

A lot of people don't want to hear anymore about costs of treatment for addiction. How about not a dime of public money for the teatment of addiction? How about that.

(I hope if it pleases you, that you can vividly imagine the rest :lol:)




Hell yes.

I vote that YOU get to arbitrarily decide what health services are provided for with "public money".

If you can't afford healthcare, then you don't deserve it.  Right?


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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InvisibleveggieM

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,538
Re: Study: Drug Legalization Could Save $88 Billion [Re: FleshCap]
    #13272288 - 09/30/10 08:32 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

FleshCap said:
Legalization may save money on enforcement, but will lead to other costs related to addiction treatment.



To believe that legalization will lead to other costs related to addiction treatment, you would have to buy into the notion that prohibition prevents people from using drugs, or that legalizing and regulating drugs will cause non drug users to suddenly start using and become addicts in need of treatment. That is simply not true.

As far as who should pay for addiction treatment, or other healthcare, that's open to debate depending on your politics. But if we save $88B, most people wouldn't mind kicking back a couple billion for treatment programs. On the other hand, since there would no black market charging several hundred bucks for a few dollars of drugs, an addict, instead of being forced into crime to pay for drugs, now holding a full time job could kick back some bucks for his own treatment.


--------------------
☮️ 🇺🇦

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OfflineCDClock
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 228
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Study: Drug Legalization Could Save $88 Billion [Re: veggie]
    #13272352 - 09/30/10 08:46 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

veggie said:
Quote:

FleshCap said:
Legalization may save money on enforcement, but will lead to other costs related to addiction treatment.



To believe that legalization will lead to other costs related to addiction treatment, you would have to buy into the notion that prohibition prevents people from using drugs, or that legalizing and regulating drugs will cause non drug users to suddenly start using and become addicts in need of treatment. That is simply not true.

As far as who should pay for addiction treatment, or other healthcare, that's open to debate depending on your politics. But if we save $88B, most people wouldn't mind kicking back a couple billion for treatment programs. On the other hand, since there would no black market charging several hundred bucks for a few dollars of drugs, an addict, instead of being forced into crime to pay for drugs, now holding a full time job could kick back some bucks for his own treatment.




saying legalization won't increase use at all is being naive
not disagreeing with you but more people will be using drugs

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InvisibleSuperD
Cacti junky
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Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 6,648
Loc: The bridgesii bridge
Re: Study: Drug Legalization Could Save $88 Billion [Re: CDClock]
    #13272452 - 09/30/10 09:14 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

CDClock said:
Quote:

veggie said:
Quote:

FleshCap said:
Legalization may save money on enforcement, but will lead to other costs related to addiction treatment.



To believe that legalization will lead to other costs related to addiction treatment, you would have to buy into the notion that prohibition prevents people from using drugs, or that legalizing and regulating drugs will cause non drug users to suddenly start using and become addicts in need of treatment. That is simply not true.

As far as who should pay for addiction treatment, or other healthcare, that's open to debate depending on your politics. But if we save $88B, most people wouldn't mind kicking back a couple billion for treatment programs. On the other hand, since there would no black market charging several hundred bucks for a few dollars of drugs, an addict, instead of being forced into crime to pay for drugs, now holding a full time job could kick back some bucks for his own treatment.




saying legalization won't increase use at all is being naive
not disagreeing with you but more people will be using drugs




Use would probably initially shoot up because of a small fraction of curious people, but if you didn't smoke crack before legalization, are you really going to change your mind now that it's legal?  Highly unlikely.


--------------------
:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

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InvisibleveggieM

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,538
Re: Study: Drug Legalization Could Save $88 Billion [Re: CDClock]
    #13272513 - 09/30/10 09:29 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

>>not disagreeing with you but more people will be using drugs<<

Well, ask yourself (or dad, grandma, pastor, dog groomer, whatever) if drugs were legal tonight, would they start shooting meth, for example, tomorrow? I'm thinking that if you ask 100 people, they would probably say no. But, it is possible one would say yes. It doesn't really matter.

Is it truly worth the expense, the damage to individuals, families, and communities, deaths of tens of thousands of people, finance and arm criminal organizations and terrorists, just to maintain prohibition on the chance that someone might say yes?

Prohibition certainly causes way more drug use and addiction by making drugs freely available to anyone of any age by leaving it's regulation and distribution in the hands of criminals.

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InvisibleSuperD
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Re: Study: Drug Legalization Could Save $88 Billion [Re: veggie]
    #13272567 - 09/30/10 09:42 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

veggie said:
Well, ask yourself (or dad, grandma, pastor, dog groomer, whatever) if drugs were legal tonight, would they start shooting meth, for example, tomorrow? I'm thinking that if you ask 100 people, they would probably say no. But, it is possible one would say yes. It doesn't really matter.

Is it truly worth the expense, the damage to individuals, families, and communities, deaths of tens of thousands of people, finance and arm criminal organizations and terrorists, just to maintain prohibition on the chance that someone might say yes?

Prohibition certainly causes way more drug use and addiction by making drugs freely available to anyone of any age by leaving it's regulation and distribution in the hands of criminals.




That's the point I was trying to make but fell a little short.  We need a :nailonhead: graemlin.


--------------------
:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

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OfflineCDClock
Stranger

Registered: 01/15/09
Posts: 228
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
Re: Study: Drug Legalization Could Save $88 Billion [Re: veggie]
    #13272860 - 09/30/10 10:28 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

veggie said:
>>not disagreeing with you but more people will be using drugs<<

Well, ask yourself (or dad, grandma, pastor, dog groomer, whatever) if drugs were legal tonight, would they start shooting meth, for example, tomorrow? I'm thinking that if you ask 100 people, they would probably say no. But, it is possible one would say yes. It doesn't really matter.

Is it truly worth the expense, the damage to individuals, families, and communities, deaths of tens of thousands of people, finance and arm criminal organizations and terrorists, just to maintain prohibition on the chance that someone might say yes?
Prohibition certainly causes way more drug use and addiction by making drugs freely available to anyone of any age by leaving it's regulation and distribution in the hands of criminals.




no i'm 100% for legalization but i dont think that any old person should be able to go and buy a bunch of lsd

there has to be some kind of licensing system put in place or something

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OfflineKonyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
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Re: Study: Drug Legalization Could Save $88 Billion [Re: CDClock]
    #13273149 - 09/30/10 11:36 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

drug problems are a 30th of health problems, mostly caused by a shitty diet

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OfflineCountry1
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Re: Study: Drug Legalization Could Save $88 Billion [Re: CDClock]
    #13273276 - 10/01/10 12:20 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

So when we're old you don't want us to be able to go buy drugs?

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OfflineAsAboveSoBelow
The matrix has you


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Re: Study: Drug Legalization Could Save $88 Billion [Re: CDClock]
    #13273821 - 10/01/10 06:24 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

CDClock said:
Quote:

veggie said:
Quote:

FleshCap said:
Legalization may save money on enforcement, but will lead to other costs related to addiction treatment.



To believe that legalization will lead to other costs related to addiction treatment, you would have to buy into the notion that prohibition prevents people from using drugs, or that legalizing and regulating drugs will cause non drug users to suddenly start using and become addicts in need of treatment. That is simply not true.

As far as who should pay for addiction treatment, or other healthcare, that's open to debate depending on your politics. But if we save $88B, most people wouldn't mind kicking back a couple billion for treatment programs. On the other hand, since there would no black market charging several hundred bucks for a few dollars of drugs, an addict, instead of being forced into crime to pay for drugs, now holding a full time job could kick back some bucks for his own treatment.




saying legalization won't increase use at all is being naive
not disagreeing with you but more people will be using drugs




Portugal has legalized all drugs, and drug usage rates haven't changed

Then again, people in Portgual, and other countries in Europe, don't work nearly as hard as the American worker bees. People hate their jobs for the most part in America, and work very long hours

I'd definitely be tempted, strolling through Walgreens in the Heroin Aisle(:lol:) to pick up the finest, pharmaceutical grade shit money could buy

Personally I think there would be a smallish spike in usage, at first, that would taper down eventually. And if the schools would teach the proper FACTS instead of the blatant BS they "teach" now, maybe there wouldn't be any spikes


--------------------


You're gonna get hurt real bad :smile:

They that sow the wind, shall reap the whirlwind

Edited by AsAboveSoBelow (10/01/10 06:41 AM)

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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: Study: Drug Legalization Could Save $88 Billion [Re: badchad]
    #13273846 - 10/01/10 06:40 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
If you can't afford healthcare, then you don't deserve it.  Right?




Pretty much sums up the Libertarian/Republican stance on the issue.

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InvisibleGerman Kahuna
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Re: Study: Drug Legalization Could Save $88 Billion [Re: FleshCap]
    #13273917 - 10/01/10 07:14 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

FleshCap said:
I'm seeing a lot of extreme perspectives and arguments. I think when it comes to drug policy reform the answer lies in the middle.legalization  may save money on enforcement, but will lead to other costs related to addiction treatment. It's not as simple as some would like us to believe.



That cost is already there. People already have medical issues related to their drug abuse. The drug abuse and addiction will not rise significantly if all drugs are legalized. Prohibition has never worked. People get stoned, whether it is legal to do so or not. The difference is that legal drugs will be clean drugs. Most of the drug-related medical issues come from the shit that drugs are cut with. I'd much rather take drugs manufactured by professional chemists in a controlled commercial lab environment than by a bunch of punks in a basement meth kitchen.


--------------------
"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".

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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,379
Re: Study: Drug Legalization Could Save $88 Billion [Re: German Kahuna]
    #13273989 - 10/01/10 07:41 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

AsAboveSoBelow said:
Portugal has legalized all drugs, and drug usage rates haven't changed






I don't think the data examining this are as clear as people are led to believe.

Whether or not usage would increase is an empirical question.  In general, offering easier access to drugs will increase use (although that's not necessarily the outcome of legalization).

The most widely used psychoactive drugs are those that have the easiest access: 

caffeine
nicotine
alcohol

We have bars, coffee houses, billion dollar tobacco industries.  All these industries focue on increasing use by the population.  That's where the money is.  But here's the kicker:  For the most part, the above drugs all kinda suck.  Despite the fact that alcohol, nicotine and caffeine aren't a whole lot of fun, and don't really offer huge benefits, people use them in massive amounts and quantities.

Imagine the outcome of legalizing drugs that are much more worthwhile.  Use would increase.  First time use (initiation) would increase.  It's easily imaginable that a high school kid would experiment with a "hard" drug for the first time, like it, and try it again.

The question would be the net effect.  Whether the costs of increased use are substantial enough to become greater than the benefits.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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OfflineNexius
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Male


Registered: 06/24/07
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Re: Study: Drug Legalization Could Save $88 Billion [Re: auronlives69]
    #13274129 - 10/01/10 08:22 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

auronlives69 said:
i say legalize everything educate the public on the potential addiction and risks ~no bullshit propaganda~ and let the people decide wether they should do it or not
they get hooked and od ohh well too bad so sad you knew what could happen nobody lives forever life goes on for like billions of people

we shouldn't have to be babied by the government on every god dammed aspect of our lives, i mean drugs have only been illegal for like 40/50 years
what about 250,000 years of people eating wild mushrooms, pyote, herbs toking up opium, weed, tobacco, i mean humans found a way to get by on their own for a good while





devolution?


--------------------
Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak

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InvisibleGreen_T
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Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 4,042
Loc: UK Flag
Re: Study: Drug Legalization Could Save $88 Billion [Re: German Kahuna]
    #13274437 - 10/01/10 10:03 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

German Kahuna said:
Quote:

FleshCap said:
I'm seeing a lot of extreme perspectives and arguments. I think when it comes to drug policy reform the answer lies in the middle.legalization  may save money on enforcement, but will lead to other costs related to addiction treatment. It's not as simple as some would like us to believe.



That cost is already there. People already have medical issues related to their drug abuse. The drug abuse and addiction will not rise significantly if all drugs are legalized. Prohibition has never worked. People get stoned, whether it is legal to do so or not. The difference is that legal drugs will be clean drugs. Most of the drug-related medical issues come from the shit that drugs are cut with. I'd much rather take drugs manufactured by professional chemists in a controlled commercial lab environment than by a bunch of punks in a basement meth kitchen.




QFT.

The way I see it, legalization would NOT lead to increased use; the legal status of substances do little to determine if people use them or not, and how often. So what we have now are the problems of drugs PLUS prohibition, but if we legalized we would just have the problems of drugs. Furthermore, with legalization, the problems of drugs would be out in the open and thus easier to take care of.

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Offlinecurenado
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Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 2,663
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Re: Study: Drug Legalization Could Save $88 Billion [Re: badchad]
    #13274542 - 10/01/10 10:28 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
Quote:

curenado said:
Well, I must be getting a tiny bit better because I deleted off a whole page RANT for:

A lot of people don't want to hear anymore about costs of treatment for addiction. How about not a dime of public money for the teatment of addiction? How about that.

(I hope if it pleases you, that you can vividly imagine the rest :lol:)




Hell yes.

I vote that YOU get to arbitrarily decide what health services are provided for with "public money".

If you can't afford healthcare, then you don't deserve it.  Right?




No - I was not saying that at all. :lol: I was just saying that for MY ONE VOTE no money for junkie rehab.

You don't know what it is like with all the drug stuff cramming up what is supposed to be regular, medical, critical services. Not people with ZERO concern for anyone else demanding that it is so IMPORTANT! - their drug problem.

The cure for drugs is quit taking them - anybody can get carried away but it has taken half the country with it.
Guess you get tired of caring about something it does not do you any good to?

What about the old psychiatric maxim that people who have to pay for help usually get better faster and people who don't....

Don't want a war over stupid junkies with you - not worth the time or thought imo

Maybe everyone can be entitled to 25k worth of your ONE "Get out of sh*t free" card if that will make it better.

As far as bringing people who are ready to come down on gradual reduction - this is the US and that would be entirely to sensible for us. Not enough people getting in the kitty ($) that way either.


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."

"When psychotomimetics become cultural, so does cultural psychosis"

Edited by curenado (10/01/10 10:34 AM)

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