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Offlinethe spiral
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Psilocybin/Psilocin Ratio & Phosphorous
    #13263015 - 09/29/10 07:48 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

I'm no nutritionist, and have little idea of whether most mushroom subs. are abundant or low in usable phosphorous. 

Could the concentration of phosphorous in a substrate change the psilocin/psilocybin ratio?

Does anything ?


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Re: Psilocybin/Psilocin Ratio & Phosphorous [Re: the spiral]
    #13263127 - 09/29/10 08:44 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

I am an exercise physiologist and work in a lab under a doctor who holds a PhD in human performance and nutrition.

We do Endocrinology research :thumbup:

The answer to your question is;

No, Phosphorous does not change the psilocin/psilocybin ratio.

However, triptamine has been shown to significantly increase the psilocin content in p. cubensis.

Dr. Jochen Gartz wrote a paper on it

-> search google scholar for the paper [type; GARTZ Triptomine].

The paper is not free.... If you are interested in obtaining a copy of this literature just PM me your address and I'll email it to you.

RR has reported mixed results when trying this method. He has not shown increases in potency of p. cubensis using this method.

According to the results of Gartz' study;-> adding a 25 millimolar concentration of Tryptamine HCL (a psilocin and psilocybin precursor) to the cubensis substrate and under lab control conditions, discovered the potentiation of psilocin into never before measured levels in cubensis fruitbodies of up to 3.3% psilocin which is several times the potency as regular cubensis.

If you want more potent mushrooms try growing Pans they are very easy. In fact I don't know why they are considered advanced mycology. This should change they are not any harder to grow than Cubes. They just require a casing layer.

PENIS ENVY is the final solution to your increased potency quest.

Grow some PE and eat an eighth to your skull.

I fuckin' dare you to.

You'll not only be sorry......

You'll also find that you don't need the Gartz paper anymore:D



References:

My Kinesiology degree coupled w/ my Masters degree in human nutrition and topped off w/ my interests in microbiology then force-fed mycology by the Dump-truck Load.


Prof P


Edited by ProfessorPinHead (09/29/10 09:01 AM)


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Re: Psilocybin/Psilocin Ratio & Phosphorous [Re: ProfessorPinHead]
    #13263189 - 09/29/10 09:16 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Phosphorus is in the molecule, so you need that much at least.
I've always wondered what would happen if you supplemented. At least you'd get fruits that lived up to their max genetic potential.

Gypsum is calcium sulphate; I assume a little calcium phosphate could be added to bulk subs experimentally.


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Re: Psilocybin/Psilocin Ratio & Phosphorous [Re: ProfessorPinHead]
    #13263292 - 09/29/10 09:54 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ProfessorPinHead said:
I am an exercise physiologist and work in a lab under a doctor who holds a PhD in human performance and nutrition.

We do Endocrinology research :thumbup:

The answer to your question is;

No, Phosphorous does not change the psilocin/psilocybin ratio.

However, triptamine has been shown to significantly increase the psilocin content in p. cubensis.

Dr. Jochen Gartz wrote a paper on it

-> search google scholar for the paper [type; GARTZ Triptomine].

The paper is not free.... If you are interested in obtaining a copy of this literature just PM me your address and I'll email it to you.

RR has reported mixed results when trying this method. He has not shown increases in potency of p. cubensis using this method.

According to the results of Gartz' study;-> adding a 25 millimolar concentration of Tryptamine HCL (a psilocin and psilocybin precursor) to the cubensis substrate and under lab control conditions, discovered the potentiation of psilocin into never before measured levels in cubensis fruitbodies of up to 3.3% psilocin which is several times the potency as regular cubensis.

If you want more potent mushrooms try growing Pans they are very easy. In fact I don't know why they are considered advanced mycology. This should change they are not any harder to grow than Cubes. They just require a casing layer.

PENIS ENVY is the final solution to your increased potency quest.

Grow some PE and eat an eighth to your skull.

I fuckin' dare you to.

You'll not only be sorry......

You'll also find that you don't need the Gartz paper anymore:D



References:

My Kinesiology degree coupled w/ my Masters degree in human nutrition and topped off w/ my interests in microbiology then force-fed mycology by the Dump-truck Load.


Prof P




Thanks.

Already conducting a PE and Pan Cambo experiment.
I'm familiar with the Gartz study; don't really see much of a point in increasing potency per se when it's so easy to just eat more.  Changing the ratio of psilocin to psilocybin, though, could potentially change the experience qualitatively.  I know that the common wisdom is that psilocybin is "inactive" until it is dephosphorylated, but after using the lemon-tek and experiencing concoctions skewed heavily in the psilocin direction (and not enjoying it much at all; felt like once the craziness hold-onto-your-hat comeup was over, there was hardly any plateu!  It felt like going through the comeup for nothing), perhaps you can understand my interest in that -OPO4 at the 4' position.


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Re: Psilocybin/Psilocin Ratio & Phosphorous [Re: the spiral]
    #13263440 - 09/29/10 10:44 AM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Thats just it.

The ratio difference will def cause a difference in the half life of the high....

This is not just because like you stated psilocybin is "inactive" until it is dephosphorylated.

It is mainly because Psilocin is converted to psilocybin by the body before it is dephosphorylated.

With this being said a higher ratio of psilocin would cause a "Creeper" effect because of its longer half life, due to the necessity of the body's conversion of the compound to psilocybin, before any high is experienced by the user.

This conversion of psilocin -> to psilocybin may very well be why you often experience a waving effect in respect to the mushroom's high in terms of the Plateau or peak.


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Offlinethe spiral
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Re: Psilocybin/Psilocin Ratio & Phosphorous [Re: ProfessorPinHead]
    #13264095 - 09/29/10 01:04 PM (10 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ProfessorPinHead said:
Thats just it.

The ratio difference will def cause a difference in the half life of the high....

This is not just because like you stated psilocybin is "inactive" until it is dephosphorylated.

It is mainly because Psilocin is converted to psilocybin by the body before it is dephosphorylated.

With this being said a higher ratio of psilocin would cause a "Creeper" effect because of its longer half life, due to the necessity of the body's conversion of the compound to psilocybin, before any high is experienced by the user.

This conversion of psilocin -> to psilocybin may very well be why you often experience a waving effect in respect to the mushroom's high in terms of the Plateau or peak.




Besides mixing up psilocybin and psilocin, yeah, I know that the metabolism of psilocybin to psilocin plays a significant role in the duration of the trip, etc.  Perhaps pure psilocybin would lead to a "lighter" and more consistent comeup due to the mechanics (ie. how quickly psilocybin is converted, and whether that's a linear (like with alcohol) or exponential (like most other  things, to a point) metabolism/time plot.)

Unless you were saying that once injested psilocin -> psilocybin --> psilocin, wihch I hadn't heard before, and would imply that you'd also get psilocybin --> psilocin --> psilocybin --> psilocin occuring as well .... is this actually happening in the body/brain?  One would think that if it really was, the lemon tek wouldn't make a bit of difference.

Still, are we that sure that psilocybin, with the phosphorous still attached, has no psychoactive activity at all?


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"A celibate clergy is an especially good idea, because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism." - Carl Sagan


Edited by the spiral (09/29/10 01:12 PM)


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