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InvisibleGreen_T
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Registered: 10/02/08
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Marcos Breton: Pot people are in denial about Prop. 19
    #13262908 - 09/29/10 03:50 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Marcos Breton: Pot people are in denial about Prop. 19
Sep. 29, 2010 - Sacramento Bee

I'm willing to admit that I might be wrong to oppose Proposition 19, the November ballot initiative to legalize marijuana for recreational use.

The latest Field Poll shows Prop. 19 is leading despite "prohibitionists" like me. What do I know?

Prop. 19 supporters hail from varied backgrounds, yet I've too often tarred them as "potheads" and "stoners."

Moreover, there are aspects of pot enforcement that are disturbing or distorted by politics.

The numbers show that African American kids get arrested for pot possession more than white kids – though they don't use more weed.

My ancestral homeland of Mexico is being ravaged by drug violence.

Past Mexican presidents, such as Vicente Fox, have called for legalization of all drugs – including cocaine and heroin – to fight drug lords.

Marijuana is labeled a "gateway" drug that leads to stronger drugs. But before I quit smoking it, pot was a gateway only to varied products containing the words "nacho cheese."

Beyond campaigns urging us to "just say no" and the billions in federal dollars spent enforcing anti-marijuana laws, there's the depressing reality that enforcement efforts soaked in blood are nothing compared to the powerful draw of weed.

I know people who are smart, successful – and seemingly hooked on marijuana. These white-collar types would be horrified if you called them addicts.

OK. But answer this question: If you had to stop smoking marijuana forever, could you?

My guess is that many couldn't quit if they tried.

Herein lies the problem with Prop. 19 – it's built on fantasy and untruths.

Pot advocates condemn alcohol addiction but are in complete denial about marijuana addiction.

They say California will make tons of tax money on Prop. 19, when there is nothing in the law to spell out how to tax a plant grown anywhere.

They claim Prop. 19 will strike a blow against Mexican drug kingpins, when marijuana will still be illegal in 49 American states and most countries throughout the world. How does that put them out of business?

As for addressing the disparity in the prosecution of blacks and whites who are arrested for marijuana possession, let's reform the real problem – police practices and sentencing guidelines.

I know people who were pro-Prop. 19 until a medical marijuana dispensary opened up next door and bad behavior followed.

You point these truths out to pot people and what do they do? They call you names, say alcohol is bad, too, and they invoke Mexican drug lord and tax windfall arguments.

OK, no more name calling from me. But you can't prove me wrong – or win my vote – with fantasies.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson

Legalize Meth | Drug War Victims

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InvisibleSuperD
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Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 6,648
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Re: Marcos Breton: Pot people are in denial about Prop. 19 [Re: Green_T]
    #13263077 - 09/29/10 06:18 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

They claim Prop. 19 will strike a blow against Mexican drug kingpins, when marijuana will still be illegal in 49 American states and most countries throughout the world. How does that put them out of business?




It's called the domino effect, you retarded pile of shit.


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:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

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Offlineblujay
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Re: Marcos Breton: Pot people are in denial about Prop. 19 [Re: SuperD]
    #13263081 - 09/29/10 06:20 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SuperD said:
Quote:

They claim Prop. 19 will strike a blow against Mexican drug kingpins, when marijuana will still be illegal in 49 American states and most countries throughout the world. How does that put them out of business?




It's called the domino effect, you retarded pile of shit.




The massive supply lines that will develop coming out of Cali in addition to what's already there would also take a big bite out of their sales. He's talking like all weed is the same. This weed is fine, their weed has been compressed in the tires of some truck for three weeks.


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wat man rly

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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
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Re: Marcos Breton: Pot people are in denial about Prop. 19 [Re: Green_T]
    #13263096 - 09/29/10 06:27 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Sounds like Mr. Breton is living in fantasy of his own.

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InvisibleHerbBaker
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Registered: 08/17/07
Posts: 2,506
Re: Marcos Breton: Pot people are in denial about Prop. 19 [Re: blujay]
    #13263147 - 09/29/10 06:54 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Us "potheads" aren't saying cannabis isn't a drug, we are saying its less harmful than alcohol and therefore shouldn't be illegal. We are tired of people going to jail for a substance thats been used for thousands of years. We are tired of seeing families destroyed.

With the legalization of cannabis comes the legalization of hemp, this is where the real economic potential lies, people should see the big picture here, the economic potential is massive and it will spread to other states but it has to be done this way, there is no way in hell you'd get the feds to legalize it unless the states themselves did so first.

Marcos Breton is clearly in a pipe dream and not the good kind.

The American people have had enough, no more uncompassionate laws on drugs, we are human beings, lets start treating each other that way.

These draconian laws have to go, good luck California.

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OfflineCap Stemson
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Re: Marcos Breton: Pot people are in denial about Prop. 19 [Re: HerbBaker]
    #13263275 - 09/29/10 07:48 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

"a marijuana dispensary opened up next door and bad behavior followed." These are the kind of empty statements that ruin your credibility. If one state can show results, the others will follow, its called the domino effect. Legalizing weed might not eradicate ALL the evil in the world but it will at least restore one of your basic human rights.

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Offlinecurenado
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Re: Marcos Breton: Pot people are in denial about Prop. 19 [Re: Cap Stemson]
    #13263376 - 09/29/10 08:22 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

<<OK. But answer this question: If you had to stop smoking marijuana forever, could you?>>

I think it is "would you?" and I say "no".

<<My guess is that many couldn't quit if they tried.>>

But you did? (:lol:)

Yes, Mr. Breton, there is a santa claus :lol:

Also, I think intentional crime will just move to the salvia market and street crime will remain the same in areas where a million illegals get a free ride and spend their time vandalizing and stealing anyway.

So legal pot will not change "bad bahavior" it just takes millions of people who don't steal, vandalise and worse, off of the "criminal" list.

Now there can be more room for the real problems that belong there.


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Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."

"When psychotomimetics become cultural, so does cultural psychosis"

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OfflineHumility
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Re: Marcos Breton: Pot people are in denial about Prop. 19 [Re: curenado]
    #13268393 - 09/30/10 03:32 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Prop 19 isn't perfect, by any means.  I still think the current situation is preferable to prop 19, which has many many disadvantages to the current legislation.

Prop 19 would have a greater political and social influence than "the current situation" does.  It would likely lead to another state legalizing, and eventually the specifics will be addressed.

At least that's what I hope.  Seems like a bad idea to me to put most of the pot-industry areas out of business in California.  I wouldn't be surprised to see prices go up after prop 19.


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InvisibleGreen_T
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Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 4,042
Loc: UK Flag
Re: Marcos Breton: Pot people are in denial about Prop. 19 [Re: Humility]
    #13268438 - 09/30/10 04:00 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

^What do you mean by "the current situation is preferable to prop 19"? Do you mean prop 215 is better?

It is quite common for people to think this bill "conflicts with" or "removes rights" afforded to prop 215. It states that wherever there is a discrepancy, 215 wins.

example: this bill says you can't smoke in public, prop 215 says medical card holders can. Therefore, medical card holders can still smoke in public.

I describe this bill as "adding marijuana freedoms to those who don't have a medical card". In other words, if you don't have a medical card, now it would be legal to have an ounce, transport an ounce, grow some plants, and not give the cops probable cause to search your car or vehicle if they see some paraphernalia.

This bill isn't perfect, but it is definitely preferable to the current situation.

There is a good article by NORML, called "prop 19, a word for word analysis" which is both in my sig and in the related threads section. It's a good read.


--------------------

"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson

Legalize Meth | Drug War Victims

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Offlineblujay
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Re: Marcos Breton: Pot people are in denial about Prop. 19 [Re: Humility]
    #13269491 - 09/30/10 11:23 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Humility said:
Prop 19 isn't perfect, by any means.  I still think the current situation is preferable to prop 19, which has many many disadvantages to the current legislation.

Prop 19 would have a greater political and social influence than "the current situation" does.  It would likely lead to another state legalizing, and eventually the specifics will be addressed.

At least that's what I hope.  Seems like a bad idea to me to put most of the pot-industry areas out of business in California.  I wouldn't be surprised to see prices go up after prop 19.




I do not want to have to go lie about a medical condition to get what i deserve, asshole. I should be able tos moke pot just like you brazenly as a healthy, responsible adult.

Do you have ANY idea how long it could be until we have this opportunity again? Those words threaten to take away my ability to live the entire rest of my life the way I wish. Don't say the other bill that's following will pass if 19 doesn't either, because all that's gonna do is make the whole no group come out and say, we already said no once and get even a larger turnout.

This offensive post is worth any repercussions. I cannot stand by and watch someone say this shit without calling them a cunt. Don't step on me damnit.

What you're saying doesn't even make sense. It's not like the new startups are going to be able to do it that much cheaper, and besides, who gives a fuck where the pot is coming from. You really think a massive influx of customers in the form of every single person of age int he state being able to shop in their stores as opposed to a small % is going to run pot shops out of business? SERIOUSLY?


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wat man rly

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Offlineblujay
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Re: Marcos Breton: Pot people are in denial about Prop. 19 [Re: Green_T]
    #13269507 - 09/30/10 11:26 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Green_T said:


It is quite common for people to think this bill "conflicts with" or "removes rights" afforded to prop 215. It states that wherever there is a discrepancy, 215 wins.

.




How can people fall for this. I am in tears dude. I've been watching it happen, too. What the fuck are we doing?

'You can have your weed, and now everybody else can too. It doesn't do jack to anything relating to prop 215, and reading it it even has specific measures to ensure prop215 setups are not impacted by the new taxation, as if they wouldn't be able to make that money off on their customer base exploding 10x over night anyway.


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wat man rly

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OfflineHumility
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Re: Marcos Breton: Pot people are in denial about Prop. 19 [Re: Green_T]
    #13278385 - 10/02/10 04:46 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Green_T said:
^What do you mean by "the current situation is preferable to prop 19"? Do you mean prop 215 is better?

It is quite common for people to think this bill "conflicts with" or "removes rights" afforded to prop 215. It states that wherever there is a discrepancy, 215 wins.

example: this bill says you can't smoke in public, prop 215 says medical card holders can. Therefore, medical card holders can still smoke in public.

I describe this bill as "adding marijuana freedoms to those who don't have a medical card". In other words, if you don't have a medical card, now it would be legal to have an ounce, transport an ounce, grow some plants, and not give the cops probable cause to search your car or vehicle if they see some paraphernalia.

This bill isn't perfect, but it is definitely preferable to the current situation.

There is a good article by NORML, called "prop 19, a word for word analysis" which is both in my sig and in the related threads section. It's a good read.




If the legislation affords more protections on top of prop 215 then I'm just fine with that.  I understood the legislation as replacing prop 215.  I'll agree that there is a dearth of protection afforded to individuals without a medical MJ card.

Blujay - This is exactly how you reacted the last time I said something to the detriment of Prop 19.  You come off as really pompous, and really immature.  In your first sentence you call me an asshole.  You have a skewed idea of what arguing/debating/interacting with other individuals is about.


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Offlineblujay
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Re: Marcos Breton: Pot people are in denial about Prop. 19 [Re: Humility]
    #13278648 - 10/02/10 07:27 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Humility said:
Quote:

Green_T said:
^What do you mean by "the current situation is preferable to prop 19"? Do you mean prop 215 is better?

It is quite common for people to think this bill "conflicts with" or "removes rights" afforded to prop 215. It states that wherever there is a discrepancy, 215 wins.

example: this bill says you can't smoke in public, prop 215 says medical card holders can. Therefore, medical card holders can still smoke in public.

I describe this bill as "adding marijuana freedoms to those who don't have a medical card". In other words, if you don't have a medical card, now it would be legal to have an ounce, transport an ounce, grow some plants, and not give the cops probable cause to search your car or vehicle if they see some paraphernalia.

This bill isn't perfect, but it is definitely preferable to the current situation.

There is a good article by NORML, called "prop 19, a word for word analysis" which is both in my sig and in the related threads section. It's a good read.




If the legislation affords more protections on top of prop 215 then I'm just fine with that.  I understood the legislation as replacing prop 215.  I'll agree that there is a dearth of protection afforded to individuals without a medical MJ card.

Blujay - This is exactly how you reacted the last time I said something to the detriment of Prop 19.  You come off as really pompous, and really immature.  In your first sentence you call me an asshole.  You have a skewed idea of what arguing/debating/interacting with other individuals is about.




You come up in here putting bad words on probably the single most signifigant piece of legislature of our lives and spreading a bad name on it, but you haven't even looked at it or listened to any of the people who represent it? Even after multiple people have put you to the fire for it? That's what's pompous and and assholish.

You are spreading rumors to the detriment to our cause. What kind of reaction do you expect? Let me guess: you have an MMJ card, are dealing, run a dispensary- or some combination of the three. I get it, you've got yours. We want ours.


--------------------

wat man rly

Edited by blujay (10/02/10 07:36 AM)

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OfflineMickalopagus
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Re: Marcos Breton: Pot people are in denial about Prop. 19 [Re: blujay]
    #13280877 - 10/02/10 06:38 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

people are entitled to their opinions (thank god/america :lol:). just need to deal with it. i know for a fact calling a person names will not help to change their opinions (hmmm... hes right I am an asshole!! I should change my vote!!... doesnt work like that)

its a big deal i agree... I had a conversation with a friend about it who is going to vote no, and for his reasons, whatever... people are just different i dunno.


--------------------
notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... "

ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."

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