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Offlineerickarl65
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Noob 2 Noob: How To Get Colonization
    #13262636 - 09/29/10 01:03 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

NooB 2 NooB:
I started in March and I have been through literally over 50 jars of different sizes (1/4 pint, 1/2ski's, pinters and quarts) with 100% contamination.  I now have a decent grasp on this mycology thing (I think).  So I figured I would throw in my suggestions in case anyone is going at it the way I did.

Be as sterile as you possibly can.  No matter what tek you use to start with, focus on being super sterile on the important parts!
      NOOB Tips

          A)  Be prepared.  As in, have multiple lysol/aerosal   
              disinfectants on hand, plenty of backup hand sanitizers,
              H2o2 and 91% alcohol.  You WILL run out of aerosal quick
          B)  Don't JUST use aerosal and latex gloves, thinking it's
              good enough for inoculation, grain 2 grain transfers or
              really anything involving your spores or prints POST
              pressure cooking.  Use Bleach, 91% Alcohol and/or H2o2.
              Spray it in the air (using a bleach/water mix) Lately,
              I have been using a bleach and 91% alcohol mix with hot
              water mix (after so many small bathroom experiences 
              where there is more bleach than oxygen in the air, you 
              tend to start feeling like YOU are the germ there that
              may not survive.  In summary, mix it.  Spray the Bleach
              and water mix in the air all over the small room, etc,
              and as you walk out backwards, spray the aerosal
              disinfectant all around also and especially around the
              door as you shut it.  Remember, you are basically in a
              Christmas globe when shaken, except the snowflakes are
              germs.  They swirl around and attach to anything they
              can, but when killed with spray, they fall to the ground
              dead.  Another thing, TAKE A SHOWER RIGHT BEFORE
              INOCULATION AND USE ANTIBACTERIAL SOAP.  AND IT MAY
              SOUND WEIRD, BUT DO NOT PUT CLOTHES ON IF AT ALL POSSIBLE
              INOCULATE BARE SKINNED WITH LATEX GLOVES AND A SURGICAL
              MASK.  This will greatly increase your chances.
          C)  Use the "Quad Protection Route".  Made it up, so don't
              google it.  It means, before pressure cooking the
              substrate or spawn in whatever size jar you use, make
              sure you put a coffee filter or filter of some sort first
              Then the lid with how ever many holes you are going to
              put in it (depending on which tek). Make sure the
              Polyfill is in the holes that need to breath (HUUUUUGGE!)
              Then the tyvek on top of that with the ring screwing
              over that. And lastly, put some kind of bandaid over the
              inoculation point you make by the needle insertion. 
              (THIS IS DONE DURING INOCULATION, NOT BEFORE)
              Recap, Mr. Obvious:  coffee filter (or whatever), then
              lid with polyfill (very important, probably the main
              reason I had to go through 50 jars until I had
              colonization), tyvek, then ring and then make sure you
              have band aids or something to cover the inoculation
              hole you make.
          D)  If you don't have an incubation chamber, use black trash
              bag to put the jars in post inoculation (spray aerosal
              in the bag as you close it to guarantee clean air and
              either close the drawstring and tuck it or tie it).  Also
              put the that trash bag that you have your jars in into
              a box, so you have a box with a (black) trash bag full of
              inoculated jars.  Whenever you open the trash bag to
              check on them, spray aerosal in it, but don't drench the
              jars with it.
          E)  DON'T TRY TO BE SMARTER THAN A TEK BEFORE HAVING SUCCESS!
              You can't go into this (like I did) thinking you can read
              one trillion posts and 5 billion google searches and
              "get the gist".  Stick to a tek!  Trust me.  It cost me
              6 months and hundreds of dollars.
          D)  DON'T GO CHEAP ON SPORE SYRINGES!  I went through
              countless spore syringes from "The Spore Store" and, not
              to say there are not spores in their syringes, they are
              just much, much less than the sponsors on this website.
              So, spend the extra 10 or 15 bucks and GUARANTEE YOURSELF
              A GOOD SYRINGE! Trust me, it's worth the money after the
              time you invest.
          E)  THE SECRET INGREDIENT IS GYPSUM (LIME). Don't try to
              find the "ACAI BERRY" of mushroom cultivation.  Gypsum
              is it (and I'm speaking of a Rye Tek or WBS tek, etc,
              BRF cakes).
          F)  Speaking of Rye, get acquainted with it.  It is the
              quickest colonizing material I have seen (and I
              currently have Rye, BRF and WBS colonizing).  Actually,
              for me, Rye and WBS (wild bird seed) are pretty close to
              even.  AND IT'S EEEEEEAAAASSSSSYYYYYY!
          E)  TIME MANAGEMENT!!! Plan ahead. Understand that when you
              pressure cook, it takes time and then IT TAKES TIME TO
              COOL. If you are like me and have a full time 10-12 hr a
              day job and a Wife that doesn't particularly like what
              you are doing, time management plays a BIG part. You
              can't just PC jars and take them out within an hour and
              inoculate them.  Well, I'm sure people have, but it's
              just not going to yield good results. And the opposite
              being that you can't PC the jars and then let them sit in
              the PC for 3 days until you remember them.  It's a multi
              task process with a full time job and it's not F***in
              easy.
          F)  Once the pressure cooker is cooled down enough to open it
              (usually within an hour and IT'S STILL HOT), shake the
              jars if using rye or any type of grain.  It will make a
              big difference in the long run, trust me.
          G)  Get familiar with LC's.  It will save you money on buying
              syringes and make your colonization much, much, much
              quicker, thus less contamination.
          H)  Patience equals success.  EXPECT A 2-3 MONTH PROCESS SO
              YOU WILL BE PLEASANTLY SURPRISED WHEN IT ONLY TAKES 1 1/2
              and if it does take 2 -3 months, well, that's what you
              expected, right?  Don't get caught up in mixing teks,
              thinking you know it all at day 1 or day 12, because you
              will WASTE MONTHS OF WORK!
          I)  ALWAYS USE GLOVES WHEN HANDLING JARS POST PC.
          J)  ALWAYS SPRAY AEROSAL DISINFECTANT EVERYWHERE WHEN
              HANDLING JARS POST PC.
          K)  KNOW ABBREVIATIONS ON THIS WEBSITE'S FORUM.
          L)  RESEARCH, THEN "DO", NOT "DO" THEN RESEARCH TO SEE IF
              IT'S RIGHT.
          M)  WATCH EVERY ROGER RABBIT VIDEO POSSIBLE.


--------------------
"If I could just leave my body for the night......"-Animal Collective

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OfflineNaz
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Re: Noob 2 Noob: How To Get Colonization [Re: erickarl65]
    #13262704 - 09/29/10 01:32 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

a) scratch 91% alch and use 70%
b) i would think that clothes would help prevent all the nasty shit that lives on you no matter how clean you think you are! just outta washer clothes are suggested
c) you are makeing it way to difficult..rtv silicone ports and tyvek are ample for grain jars and micropore tape for pf jars with verm barrier...coffee filters dont even serve as a dust jacket..plus they get wet and harbor contams...
d)CORRECT
e)gypsum is lime?? r u sure?? thought it was calcium and sulfur
f)if you put gypsum in your soak and fully dry your grains you dont have to do this at all...watch rr's video...
e?)CORRECT also adding a small amount of liquid coffee to your soak water is a nice nitrogen boost for the grains... i use about a cup per 3 jars worth of grain. works for me
f?)CORRECT
g)LC's are VERY contam prone!! VERY!!! honestly..its woth 1 cc of spores but as a noob...dont bank on it! you would have better luck growing a few pf jars cloneing a pin to agar then transfer clone to lc...IMO
h)CORRECT
i)Who told you this??? if you seal your jars propperly should be no contams getting in...go thru alot of gloves dont ya....
j)again this is a lot of overkill...go thru alot of oust dont ya....
k)CORRECT
l)CORRECT
m)CORRECT

srsly tho...you are over doing it ALOT...unless you have massive mold problems in your house...id be blaming the coffee filters and or your lc's for your contam issue.. KISS works best for newbs ( KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID ) also...all these procautions and no mention of a glove box?? posts like this scared the shit outta me as a newb...its really not as hard as all that to grow a few shrooms....
follow TEK to a T... RR's is idiot proof... you say to use his vids but you didnt follow his tek to a t...thats why you wasted 50 jars IMO

Edited by Naz (09/29/10 02:34 AM)

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OfflineMad_Hatter2004
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Re: Noob 2 Noob: How To Get Colonization [Re: Naz]
    #13262716 - 09/29/10 01:38 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Don't be throwing suggestions out after you just admitted that every attempt at growing on your behalf failed.

Focus more on getting a successful grow first.


--------------------
7 days without waves makes one weak!

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Offlinedeadmandave
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Re: Noob 2 Noob: How To Get Colonization [Re: Mad_Hatter2004]
    #13262836 - 09/29/10 03:03 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

that was fun to read! perhaps you have a very bad mold problem in your area. the quad protection route, it sounds insane!!

try using a regular jar lid with a few holes for GE and inoculation site, then use 2 layers of tyvek. put micro-pore over the hole you make with your needle or you can use a band-aid since you already have some.

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Invisiblenglsnv
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Re: Noob 2 Noob: How To Get Colonization [Re: deadmandave]
    #13263094 - 09/29/10 06:27 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

don't forget about common sense!  :thumbup:

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OfflineProfessorPinHead
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Re: Noob 2 Noob: How To Get Colonization [Re: erickarl65]
    #13263180 - 09/29/10 07:09 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

erickarl65 said:
NooB 2 NooB:
I started in March and I have been through literally over 50 jars of different sizes (1/4 pint, 1/2ski's, pinters and quarts) with 100% contamination.  I now have a decent grasp on this mycology thing (I think).  So I figured I would throw in my suggestions in case anyone is going at it the way I did.





:cool: Its gonna' take you a little longer than a few months "to get a decent grasp on this mycology thing".

It is a veryLARGE topic.......

much much research is needed.

Welcome aboard though :laugh: 

One thing your def. correct about is watch RR till you puke when you are a NOOB!

Step 1: [BRF TEK aka PF TEK] -> RR video -> 

Noobzzz enter here -> -> -> -> -> _>
->  http://www.mushroomvideos.com/BRF-Pf-Tek

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Offlineerickarl65
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Re: Noob 2 Noob: How To Get Colonization [Re: ProfessorPinHead]
    #13263675 - 09/29/10 09:35 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I appreciate the responses! Thanks! Mad_Hatter, this was about colonization, not the complete grow.  Seems like I just wanted to get out there what I have learned by trial and error in my specific situations that may help someone else out.  All I know is up until now, I've been through countless (guess 50 is close) jars and have had 100% contamination until I did these things listed.  Mainly, I finally acquired Tyvek and started using polyfill.  The other variables, I have been using on and off on the failed grows, but now is not the time to stop those to "test" it out.  Goal now has been to get first flush by mid october, so I can have a batch ready for Hallows Eve. 
  I enjoy all the responses, even the criticism.  That's what I need and I'm looking for......to learn.  And, totally agree I misspoke on the "mycology thing".  No PHD here, but damn, it sure feels like it in some ways after all this trial and error.  I am guessing alot of noobs are scared to post before they have success and that doesn't make sense to me.  Doing this HELPS you gain success in a first grow! 
By the way, I do have a question or two.  I cased my first 8 or 10 quarts of colonized rye in a 60/40 coir/verm mix yesterday.  Would love to hear peoples thoughts on how long to leave in the incubator (2-3 days, 5-6 or none at all).
Second question:  I have 3 sets of LC colonizing in quart jars.  2 sets of the 3 seem to be doing well/ok (by that, I mean they are clear and white splooge splotches are swirling around when swirled).  Those 2 sets I used Karo/water mix.  The third set, I used honey.  There are much more blotchy splooges in these, but they sit at the bottom and definitely have a dark yellowness to them, not white.  But, the thing is, the entire water is yellow from the honey.  I stirred the honey in the water while setting the jar in hot water so I thought I produced a smooth mix of honey water.  Maybe I didn't.  I PC'd them for 30 min.  Maybe overcooked, I don't know.  My question is, does this "typically" mean contamination or is it possible it's just a malignant mixture on my part and I can still use the mycelia?
Third question: Out of the two sets, most are colonized now.  I have rye and a little organic millet soaking currently that I will PC and knock up with these LC's.  Again, they are in quart jars......where do you find syringes with longer needles??????
(The millet is just an experiment.  Am going to take just a smidge and mix it into a rye jar, like a 1 to 30 ratio of rye to millet and see what happens)
Oh, and yes, I screwed up (I guess), because I have been using gypsum thinking that it was lime that I used for my lawn.  It's not. LOL. But the jars of rye without gypsum didn't colonize nearly as fast as the ones with gypsum soaked in. Who knows.....maybe you guys do?  I appreciate and welcome all feedback, good and bad. 
Thanks!


--------------------
"If I could just leave my body for the night......"-Animal Collective

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Offlineerickarl65
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Re: Noob 2 Noob: How To Get Colonization [Re: erickarl65]
    #13263803 - 09/29/10 10:06 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Also, I am pretty sure I do have a mold issue in the area where my little operation is.  Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have 100% contam up until I started using so many filters on each jar.  Problem is (I think) that in the closet I am using, there is one of those "attic access" points in the ceiling.  I'm sure mold spores just pore through that sumbitch. I put an air purifier/ionizer in the closet a month or two back.  Probably helps, but not 100%.  I have been thinking I need to seal it off by taping up the small ceiling (like 3'x5') with those clear carpet protector sheets or something.  I have not (to this point) used an incubator.  Just black trash bags inside boxes.  Maybe I should start using an incubator, but at this point, I'm having 100% colonization and rather quickly, so I guess that's all that matters. :smile:  Now, the issue is what type of fruiting chamber to use, and looks like I need to decide rather quick.  Any suggestions would be immensely appreciated.


--------------------
"If I could just leave my body for the night......"-Animal Collective

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Offlineerickarl65
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Re: Noob 2 Noob: How To Get Colonization [Re: erickarl65]
    #13264466 - 09/29/10 12:19 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Naz,

Why 70% vs 91%?
Makes sense on the coffee filter....what about tyvek then coffee filter? Or maybe the filter is just overkill.  Just tyvek and polyfill for breather hole? Or are you saying just silicone ports and no breather?
And yes, I am going through tons of gloves and generic disinfectant spray. Anyone know why disinfectant all the sudden costs like 6 bucks a can? Didn't it cost 99cents last year or somethin?
Also, Naz, didn't use coffee filters until recently and that is when I finally had success colonizing (along with tyvek and polyfill). Haven't used LC's to knock up any jars yet, so that's not the reason either.  Followed RR's video to a tee for BRFs, but did not have microbial filter, so I tried a million different things and none worked.  Used verm barrier since day one and that didn't stop contams either.  Maybe I have more mold than o2 in my house, lol. Don't know.  But, yes, I did follow RR's videos to a tee (on BRF and Rye), except for the fact I have been adding gypsum to the rye soak. Never saw the need for a glove box as of yet, because, as stated, I overdue the sterile precautions.  To the point where sometimes I think I might die from bleach inhalation, etc. during inoculation. I just figured if I could barely survive it, damn sure a germ can't.  Probably not too healthy, even with 3 freakin masks on at once, lol.  Also, flame the syringe needle between every poke.  In the past, I always got some mycelia to grow and then they hault and good ole grinch mold is found somewhere else on the jar, so I figured it wasn't due to innoc.  I've seen somewhere that you should soak brown rice flour or something to germinate the endo's just as you do with rye.  Maybe that was part of the issue, but I thought those were to get rid of wet spot or baccilus (sp?) and not penicillin, green mold.  Plus, didn't know how to soak "flour"?  I have been shaking BRFs once a week or as I "thought" they needed.  Maybe I shouldn't?  Either way, it's been a frustrating road, but fun because it gives me something to do while my Wife watches hours of reality TV. And, currently rye and WBS seem to be working 100%, easier and faster than BRF.  That will probably change now that it's birthing time and casing seems to be much more difficult than dunking a cake and slapping it in a FC, fanning and misting.
pEaCe


--------------------
"If I could just leave my body for the night......"-Animal Collective

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OfflineNaz
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Re: Noob 2 Noob: How To Get Colonization [Re: erickarl65]
    #13264751 - 09/29/10 01:12 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

okay...70% alch has more water in it wich allows it to penetrate the cell walls of bacteria and spores better then 91%...I know, but thats what the pros say.
im saying silicone ports then i cut and silicone a piece of tyvek over breather on outside of lid. ive even used strait micropore tape b4 and had sucess my house is new and very clean tho so that was prolly luck. point is keep your filter outside the lid so that the grain dosent come into contat with it when you shake...
a glove box will help you reduce the amnt of disenfectant you are useing.....
stop useing coffee filters all together...especially on the inside of your jars...this is prolly where alot of your contams come from... with pf jars...no filter period other then verm...altho once it was sugested to me no verm and just tyvek from rr but that was to test an agar wedge...for spore solution innoculations...use verm. gypsum is awsome...but its not lime...its calcium and sulfur...lime is used in caseings for ph i do believe...
make sure you are useing bacterial masks instead of dust masks....
brf requires no soak because its pulverized you can do the same with wbs...endospores are all busted up and shit by the process i guess.
dont case if your concerned...cubes dont need a caseing layer.. spawn to coirverm mix...follow damion5050 coir tek (use search function) its easy and works great...he will even answer any questions you have about the process if any...its pretty cut and dry...since you have had such issues with the mean green id suggest doing your work in a different area of the house then the bathroom...prolly alot of mold there with all the moisture...and get a glove box!!
good luck and stop killen yourself for shrooms!!!! oh and ohmatics monotub tek is good one too...

Edited by Naz (09/29/10 01:15 PM)

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Offlineerickarl65
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Re: Noob 2 Noob: How To Get Colonization [Re: Naz]
    #13265791 - 09/29/10 04:24 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

All that makes perfect sense.  Can't tell you how much I appreciate it.  Ya, have been killin myself mainly just because I can't allow myself to fail and quit.  The shrooms themselves are a bonus byproduct of this "project" turned "mission".  Thanks again.:laugh:


--------------------
"If I could just leave my body for the night......"-Animal Collective

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Offlinetusca
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Re: Noob 2 Noob: How To Get Colonization [Re: erickarl65]
    #13266000 - 09/29/10 05:14 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Erick you defiantly have patients!

Now with the Shroomery you will have great success ! I have gone with WBS for my first go (MS), and my jars are colonizing nicely. I owe this to all the amazing cultivators here and the search engine :P Also don't forget the "Mushroom info" menu at the top, tons of great documentation.

Here is a great list put together by Damion5050
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/11961453

I would also getting Paul Stamets books, great reads :smile:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Stamets


--------------------
//Searching... Reading... Learning...

Supplies Canada
Damion5050's Links

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OfflineFalseMaria
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Re: Noob 2 Noob: How To Get Colonization [Re: tusca]
    #13266039 - 09/29/10 05:25 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, read all of Stamet's book... Beyond just "cultivation", his Mycelium Running book is just a fascinating read.

My Additions:

false maria 001) Buy a HIGH QUALITY pressure cooker. I've gone through four in my lifetime now. Either upgrading size and/or replacing a defective one. So only now have I invested 300$ into a 31 Qt All-American (plus whatever ungodly duties/fees UPS/Border charges me). I should have cut to the chase years ago.

false maria 002) Buy a FLOW HOOD. I've just ordered mine, but I know it's going to be a godsend in the long run.  =P


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✲゚。.(✿╹◡╹)ノ☆.

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OfflineNaz
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Re: Noob 2 Noob: How To Get Colonization [Re: FalseMaria]
    #13266053 - 09/29/10 05:30 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

:whathesaid:
altho a presto will work just as good as an AA IMO
and if i had 3-400 id build my own flowhood in a heart beat....god i wish i had 3-400

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OfflineFalseMaria
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Re: Noob 2 Noob: How To Get Colonization [Re: Naz]
    #13266317 - 09/29/10 06:24 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Naz: I *almost* got a Presto off the same site. Same size I have now, plus a gauge. And we used to have Prestos in my fam in the 70's, so I know they are quality.

Too many failed exp recently I just went all out is all...


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OfflineFalseMaria
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Re: Noob 2 Noob: How To Get Colonization [Re: FalseMaria]
    #13266333 - 09/29/10 06:28 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I haven't even *tried* this yet. But I bought a ton of medium duty plastic sheeting, that I will use to section of my work areas during innoculations/etc... So flow hood in a huge "clean room"... I'll just number the sheets I cut so I can build it back up in no time flat.


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OfflineFalseMaria
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Re: Noob 2 Noob: How To Get Colonization [Re: FalseMaria]
    #13266334 - 09/29/10 06:29 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

There's always sexy sexy labware too...



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OfflineNaz
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Re: Noob 2 Noob: How To Get Colonization [Re: FalseMaria]
    #13266340 - 09/29/10 06:30 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I agree in in this respect..8 times outta 10 you get what you pay for...Im sure the AA will last several lifetimes vs the presto...me..ill let my lil mycologists get tere own damn pressure cooker:) daddy wants a flow hood!!
Quote:

FalseMaria said:
There's always sexy sexy labware too...




:crazy2:

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OfflineNaz
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Re: Noob 2 Noob: How To Get Colonization [Re: Naz]
    #13266350 - 09/29/10 06:33 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

i would look good with that blonde on me too:smile:

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OfflineFalseMaria
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Re: Noob 2 Noob: How To Get Colonization [Re: Naz]
    #13266372 - 09/29/10 06:37 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Naz said:
i would look good with that blonde on me too:)




ew, his roots are showing tho :tongue2:


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