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InvisibleHeruuka
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Registered: 10/16/99
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on the Topic of DAS's, PCL's, and all things Automation
    #1326163 - 02/22/03 09:43 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

This is more of a question than a topic, in actuallity, but i think it has thepossibility for turning into an invaluable resource for those of us wishing to expand both our hobbies and our minds.

A thread posted here in the advanced forum a while back has caused a lot of us to think about the logistics of incorporating computers into our environmental control systems. The sheer practicality is unbeatable, given an acceptably user-friendly software interface, as we would finally be able to monitor and effect ALL variables involved in the environment we are trying to create, to the point of even directly measuring and changing gas concentrations down to single ppm. I've been doing a little research, and the cost seems prohibitve. The homemade alternative looks like the answer, but i'm unsure as to whether or not the software is easy enough for most of us to use. I'll be purchasing a copy of this software soon, and i'll report back. The ideal combination of software and hardware, as far as price is concerned, would be the homemade unit linked with something like LabTechCONTROL ( a fully functional shareware version can be downloaded from here ). Unfortunately i don't think this is possible because of the parallel port interface of the homemade DAS. Could someone please explain the compatability issues associated with DASs? Would it be difficult to write a driver for the homemade DAS?
Are there any cheap DAS's available that have at least 8 inputs and 8 outputs?
I'm really still very much in the dark about automation but would very much like to learn more. I'll continue my research, and hopefully post some relevent information in the next few days. In the mean time, i encourage all of you who are on the same wavelength to do your own research and contribute to this post so that we can all learn more.

Any and all relevent posts are greatly appreciated by me, and, i'm sure, the community aswell.

Thanks

H


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Offlinedebianlinux
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Re: on the Topic of DAS's, PCL's, and all things Automation [Re: Heruuka]
    #1328545 - 02/23/03 11:55 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

either fill me in on the acronyms or tell me you are talking about DACs and PLCs. The best I could figure for a DAS was digitally automated system.


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Invisiblepoke smot!
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Re: on the Topic of DAS's, PCL's, and all things Automation *DELETED* [Re: debianlinux]
    #1329015 - 02/23/03 03:41 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by poke smot!

Reason for deletion: x



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InvisibleHeruuka
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Re: on the Topic of DAS's, PCL's, and all things Automation [Re: poke smot!]
    #1329108 - 02/23/03 04:34 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Poke, i have nothing but praise and admiration for your ability to design ANYTHING electrical let alone a PC interface. My electronic abilities are limited to following schematics and making distortion pedals! I think that i was misunderstood. From my experience, when people with such knowledge design such things for themselves, it is very difficult for other less/differently educated individuals to understand their creations. All i need is something that displays my variables in standard units like degrees f, or percentage humidity. I can't read raw sensor data, but its possible that you can, fuck, you can probably read the matrix code, and i don't want to get into a situation where i have to convert each reading by taking the integral of some crazy function in order to get something i can understand. My original intention of posting the above was merely to mention your project an create an open discussion on the subject but it seems, reading it now, that i did almost entirely direct this post at you. All, of this aside, i'd like encourage anyone who has the time and knowledge to construct poke's DAS to do so, and make sure you throw him some extra cash for designing this thing. I think we should all help, in our limited capacity to do so, to further this project so that everyone can enjoy the possibilities of cheap home automation. I personally will be attempting to get the DAS to work with a remote monitoring and control program i have that allows you control your environment over the internet.

Cudos to poke, and lets put our thinking caps on, i'll also be looking for a suitable cheap CO2 sensor for us oyster cultivators.

Any other shroomerites experienced in PCL, DAQ's, or just general data acquisition and control?

thanks for all the input

H


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Offlinehsalf
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Re: on the Topic of DAS's, PCL's, and all things Automation [Re: Heruuka]
    #1329289 - 02/23/03 06:06 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

A great place to start would be 'Poptronics" magizine, the combination of 'Popular Electronics' and 'Electronice Now' magizines, now that they are both extinct. Brought to you in part by Gernsbeck/back publications. The forefounder(William H. Hearst) of Gernswhatever was one of the great contributors of the "drug" war. But there aren't mant other electronics mags out there that deliver what you will find there.
Home automation is extremely cheap. So is hooking it up to the net, via a rotating anon proxy server.


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: on the Topic of DAS's, PCL's, and all things Automation [Re: poke smot!]
    #1329632 - 02/23/03 08:27 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I've seen products like LabJack. I believe that requires you to write your own software.




You get LabVIEW with LabJack - very powerful software. You can design a data acquisition and control system in a very short time: Build a PC-Based Data Acquisition System in Ten Minutes

Another good and free software is Visual: http://sourceforge.net/projects/visual/
but that would require writing your own Linux labjack driver. (I'll do that if I'll have some time)

I think LabJack is what I'm going to get. I don't have enough knowledge in electronics to build my own.


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: on the Topic of DAS's, PCL's, and all things Automation [Re: Heruuka]
    #1329645 - 02/23/03 08:34 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

The price for the LabTechCONTROL software is much higher then LabJack (hardware and software for 99$).
No... fuck  :crazy: they just increasted the price to 119$ (http://www.labjack.com/labjack_u12.html). I'm waiting too much... 


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InvisibleHeruuka
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Re: on the Topic of DAS's, PCL's, and all things Automation [Re: zeronio]
    #1331610 - 02/24/03 01:43 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

not suggesting you do this, but you can get cracks for pretty much everything these days, including labtech software. The only reason why i'm so partial to LabTech CONTROL is the internet monitoring and control feature. The actual price tag for LAbTech CONTROL is something like $1600, but they give out a fully functional demo that cripples in 2 weeks.
My problem with LabJack is its limited number of outputs, i need 6 at least -it only has two.

Are there any other programs that allow for realtime data monitoring and control over the internet?

H



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Offlinehsalf
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Re: on the Topic of DAS's, PCL's, and all things Automation [Re: Heruuka]
    #1331728 - 02/24/03 02:31 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I recall seeing something for x10 many moons ago. Shell out a few bucks for a Poptronics.


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Offlineshroomologist
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Re: on the Topic of DAS's, PCL's, and all things Automation [Re: hsalf]
    #1332550 - 02/24/03 07:44 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

who wants labview 6.0


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: on the Topic of DAS's, PCL's, and all things Automation [Re: Heruuka]
    #1332590 - 02/24/03 08:00 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

My problem with LabJack is its limited number of outputs, i need 6 at least -it only has two




It has 2 analog outputs and 20 digital IO. The digital outputs are used to control switches, analogs could be used for example to dim lights or control fan power. Why would you need more analog outputs?

Quote:

Are there any other programs that allow for realtime data monitoring and control over the internet?




I used to work with Intellution iFix (www.intellution.com) that has this capability, but it's too big & expensive for home use.

I'm currently playing with Visual. Take a look at this web control demo: http://visual.sourceforge.net/fake.php



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Offlinecyankid
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Re: on the Topic of DAS's, PCL's, and all things Automation [Re: zeronio]
    #1335872 - 02/25/03 07:55 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

LabJack looks cool. How hard is it to control though? Looks like the software is just a bunch of runtimes. Poke Smot, build a box, PLEASE!!!!!!!!! I'll gladly pay you for it, or I'll have to buy a LabJack. Can anyone recommend decent probes that will work with LabJack? They want like 25 bucks for the temperature one. (bunk)



cyankid


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: on the Topic of DAS's, PCL's, and all things Automation [Re: cyankid]
    #1335895 - 02/25/03 08:05 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

LabJack looks cool. How hard is it to control though? Looks like the software is just a bunch of runtimes.




I don't have it yet, but since you get LabVIEW and drivers with it, it should be easy. Take a look at LabVIEW link I gave above.



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Offlinecyankid
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Re: on the Topic of DAS's, PCL's, and all things Automation [Re: zeronio]
    #1335906 - 02/25/03 08:09 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Somehow I doubt you get LabView (over a thousand dollars) with a LabJack. I am pretty consistently wrong though.


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InvisibleHeruuka
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Re: on the Topic of DAS's, PCL's, and all things Automation [Re: cyankid]
    #1337304 - 02/26/03 10:33 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Check out poke smot's plans , they're exceptionally detailed and thorough.

H


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Offlinehsalf
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Re: on the Topic of DAS's, PCL's, and all things Automation [Re: Heruuka]
    #1338552 - 02/26/03 07:01 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

DigiKey rocks! They're like the wal-mart of electronics(hopefully w/o the sweatshops). About 2 years ago my friend picked up 10 variable capacitors(10-120pf) for about 54 bucks w/ s&h.


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Invisiblepoke smot!
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Re: on the Topic of DAS's, PCL's, and all things Automation *DELETED* [Re: hsalf]
    #1340787 - 02/27/03 02:36 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Post deleted by poke smot!

Reason for deletion: x



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Offlinecyankid
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Re: on the Topic of DAS's, PCL's, and all things Automation [Re: poke smot!]
    #1340990 - 02/27/03 04:27 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Sign me up! I looked over the schematics, I'm pretty confident I can build the box, I'm pretty handy with a soldering iron. The only thing I wouldn't be able to do is the software, that's all Greek to me. Let me know when you have anything available. I'll buy whatever version you may have now, and you can send me the addons later or whatnot. Right on Smot, you rock! :


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Offlinedebianlinux
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Re: on the Topic of DAS's, PCL's, and all things Automation [Re: poke smot!]
    #1341818 - 02/28/03 03:09 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

a linux port of the software would kick ass. i'm no programmer or I'd be on top of this. this would seriously decrease the hardware requirements of this rig. somehow I don't believe VB is cross-platform compatible. java would have worked better for this issue.


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InvisibleHeruuka
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Re: on the Topic of DAS's, PCL's, and all things Automation [Re: Heruuka]
    #1350281 - 03/04/03 03:52 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I've nearly completed the construction of the logic portion of poke smots design, and now i'm just waiting for the digikey order. I think the possibility of using the device to monitor and control gas concentrations is slightly out of reach. The CO2 sensor modules are independently powered, too complex for me to build, and expensive. On the other hand, the timer function in pokes program is more than sufficient for my purposes, as i only intended to use the gas sensor to control air exchanges anyway.
Does anyone know of any cheap CO2 sensors? all i could find was the Texas Instruments 4GS series, and other similar devices. money. What other sensors are necessary for our hobby? i'm just trying to justify the eight sensor lines coming off my board.
I, personally, would love to see a template for those photo-fabrication PCB kits, or even pre-fab PCB boards (i don't know what i'm talking about), that would save a lot of work with the soldering iron. fuck my bum.

H



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