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InvisibleGreen_T
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Registered: 10/02/08
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California's Marijuana Initiative: A Problem for Obama?
    #13258423 - 09/28/10 10:24 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

California's Marijuana Initiative: A Problem for Obama?
Sep 28 2010 - The Atlantic

If California voters decide to legalize marijuana throughout the state, President Obama will have a decision on his hands.

Politically, it will be a tough one.

Polling now suggests that, if the vote were taken today, the Proposition 19 legalization ballot initiative would pass--Field Research shows 49 - 42 percent support, while Public Policy Polling shows Prop. 19 passing 47 - 38 percent--and pressure is already mounting on the White House to sue California if it does, just as Attorney General Eric Holder's Justice Department is now suing Arizona over its controversial SB 1070 immigration law.

Earlier this month, nine former administrators of the Drug Enforcement Administration sent a letter calling on Obama and Holder to sue if Prop. 19 passes, blocking the statewide legalization of possession and personal growth and the allowance of individual counties to license commercial sale and production of marijuana.

A lawsuit may not be so simple--the federal government may have a better case against Prop. 19's commercial provisions than its sections on personal use--but regardless, if Prop. 19 passes, Obama and Holder will have to decide what to do.

The pressure will likely be intense. Legalized marijuana is practically inconceivable to large swaths of the country, and one can see the broader coalition of social conservatives and concerned moderates reeling in shock on November 3, aghast at California's decadence and lawlessness, and turning to President Obama to put a stop to it.

Make no mistake: the legalization of marijuana in the country's largest state by population, with governmentally sanctioned commercial grow-houses and open storefronts (which will probably arise, according to one longtime marijuana advocate, in Oakland, West Hollywood, and maybe one other county) would be a major change in this country. Commercial distribution of medical marijuana already happens in a few places around the country, and it's allegedly pretty loose in California and Colorado. But outright legalization is a different thing entirely.

If Obama doesn't take action, he'll be seen as the president who let this happen. It could very well lead many people to vote against him in 2012.

At this point, it seems the Obama administration will sue California, but that's just an educated guess: the Justice Department has declined to comment. Obama's drug czar, former Seattle Police Chief Gil Kerlikowske, has weighed in firmly against legalization on the national scale, and he submitted an op-ed to the L.A. Times co-authored with several former drug czars (some of whom have taken a very hard line against medical marijuana) warning that Prop. 19 would increase social costs with more drug use.

But while standing on the sidelines would probably damage Obama with many voters, a lawsuit could bring its own political costs.

In California, Prop. 19 is backed by some of the voting blocs that handed Obama his victory in 2008, including Democrats, who support legalization by a 60 - 28 percent margin, according to Field; , independents, who support it by a 62 - 33 percent margin; 18 - 29 year-olds, who support it 59 - 33 percent; and 40 - 49 year-olds, who support it 53 - 38 percent support.

The only significant opposition to Prop. 19, according to Field, comes from older voters. 50 - 64 year-olds oppose it 47 - 43 percent, while voters 65 and older oppose it 53 - 36 percent.

Voters are, of course, different in different places, and Field's numbers only represent what they've found to be true of likely California voters. There isn't any recent data (to my knowledge) on how these voter groups feel about California's legalization plan nationally.

One can, however, envision a coalition of younger and marginalized voters being disappointed in Obama for his decision. Call them the Shepard Fairey coalition. In 2008, Obama was cool among many; if he attacks Prop. 19, a lot of that mojo will disappear. Being seen as a buzzkill never helped any politician among young and disaffected voters, much less Obama, who rode their support to victory.

Add in the fact that elements within the progressive establishment are coming to publicly support legalization--most notably Firedoglake's Jane Hamsher, who launched a half-million-dollar organizing effort around marijuana this year--and you have a liberal coalition that could be of consequence. Ron Paul libertarians, meanwhile, prefer to treat drug laws as a states' rights issue, and would likely oppose federal efforts to block Prop. 19 from taking effect.

None of this may matter. At this point, it's generally expected that authority figures would oppose any kind of drug legalization, and even marijuana advocates would tell you that politicians are behind the curve of marijuana-legalization support. That's the paradigm. Legalization supporters may forgive Obama for making the predictable move, and none of this is to say that the federal reaction to Prop. 19 will become the prime voting issue for any voting bloc.

But if Prop. 19 passes, it will be a major issue in this country. Many will be surprised. How the president handles it will have political implications not just for California, but for his own political fortunes in 2012.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson

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Offlinecurenado
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Re: California's Marijuana Initiative: A Problem for Obama? [Re: Green_T]
    #13258458 - 09/28/10 10:31 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for the info and update!

Personally, I hope Obama explodes in daylight from a massive bloom of all that sh*t in his blood - and in so far as the "sue California coalition" goes, lets eat our mushrooms and drink our tea because clearly, they idiotically care more about "intake" than "outbreak" and with any luck....
:lol::cool:

EDIT: Here, you can send this to the evil Emperor (in his own imagination) and all his fugly crew! Tell 'em I said "Hi"






Edited by curenado (09/28/10 10:43 AM)

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Offline2859558484
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Re: California's Marijuana Initiative: A Problem for Obama? [Re: curenado]
    #13258525 - 09/28/10 10:46 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

dude relax it hasnt happened yet! haha
Im not sure it will either... this is just speculation.
I think the administration is just concerned with damage control for the primaries so they are hating on weed to get votes.


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Offlinecurenado
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Re: California's Marijuana Initiative: A Problem for Obama? [Re: 2859558484]
    #13258533 - 09/28/10 10:49 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

You're right - old and always getting over-boiled prematurely....
:gump:


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."

"When psychotomimetics become cultural, so does cultural psychosis"

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Invisiblebigmike7104
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Re: California's Marijuana Initiative: A Problem for Obama? [Re: curenado]
    #13258786 - 09/28/10 11:50 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Third, they are wrong on the key question regarding the merits of the lawsuit they desire the Attorney General to file. Proposition 19 withdraws California enforcement of its marijuana law which is its Constitutional prerogative. The Supreme Court ruled in the Printz case that Congress cannot "commandeer" state officials to enforcement federal laws. This is different from the Arizona immigration situation in which Arizona sought to authorize state conduct based on federal immigration status, and to create offenses based on federal immigration status. Immigration is explicitly a Federal power in Article I, section 8 of the Constitution. Marijuana prohibition is not in the Constitution. Federal power over marijuana is based on the commerce clause. Our law is filled with areas in which there is both federal and state regulation of various aspects of commerce. The Controlled Substances Act, unlike the Federal Communications Act, does not exclude states from regulation.

On its face, Prop. 19 is a completely different concept. Historically, Prop. 19 is akin to the act of the New York legislature repealing its alcohol prohibition law in 1923 which was perfectly lawful and Constitutional.




http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/content/2010/09/15/Ex-DEA-Administrators-Call-Obama-Sue-if-CA-Voters-Legalize-Pot

Nothin to worry about guys :bigblunt:


--------------------
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind
Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must
Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines

Edited by bigmike7104 (09/28/10 11:52 AM)

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OfflineUbitsa
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Re: California's Marijuana Initiative: A Problem for Obama? [Re: bigmike7104]
    #13258937 - 09/28/10 12:23 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I'm almost hoping they do sue....  if the gov't sues and loses a supreme court decision, it would set a nice precedent and give further legitimacy to the movement.

However, I could see the Supreme Court throwing the constitution out the window and ruling against this law, so I'd rather it just gets left alone.

Most of the anti-weed arguments will go right out the window once Cali has legal weed and doesn't explode in a fiery ball of failure.


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OfflineRabid Jelly Bean
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Re: California's Marijuana Initiative: A Problem for Obama? [Re: Ubitsa]
    #13259052 - 09/28/10 12:51 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Ubitsa said:
I'm almost hoping they do sue....  if the gov't sues and loses a supreme court decision, it would set a nice precedent and give further legitimacy to the movement.

However, I could see the Supreme Court throwing the constitution out the window and ruling against this law, so I'd rather it just gets left alone.

Most of the anti-weed arguments will go right out the window once Cali has legal weed and doesn't explode in a fiery ball of failure.



Well so far prohibitionists have pulled facts out their ass and I don't see what will stop them from doing so. I'm sure there will be a statistic that comes out manipulated to blame pot for everything.

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InvisibleGreen_T
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Re: California's Marijuana Initiative: A Problem for Obama? [Re: Rabid Jelly Bean]
    #13259170 - 09/28/10 01:19 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

If the feds do sue, there WILL be a revolution. Legalizing marijuana does not contradict the constitution, so the government can't use that as an excuse to sue (like I think they did for the AZ bill).

If Obama sues, then the tea party will gain power, since they can rally against the feds interfering with the states. Also, I think the majority of people who voted him in are:

1) Pro-choice,
2) Pro-gay rights,
and 3) Pro-marijuana legalization.

He's already lost people on point #2, and if he loses people on point #3 he will lose a lot of popularity.

Lets see where this goes :popcorn:


--------------------

"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson

Legalize Meth | Drug War Victims

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OfflineUbitsa
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Re: California's Marijuana Initiative: A Problem for Obama? [Re: Green_T]
    #13259228 - 09/28/10 01:31 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Green_T said:
If Obama sues, then the tea party will gain power, since they can rally against the feds interfering with the states.




I believe that a large part of the "tea party" are actually really thick-headed conservatives who just like the convenience of hating on the gov't.

For evidence of this, look how few of these "freedom lovers" voted for Ron Paul in 2008 - waaay less. 

I certainly think there are a good chunk of people in the tea party who agree w/ marijuana legalization and states' rights, but the "leaders" of the tea party and supporters like Sarah Palin would much rather institute the death penalty for people found w/ weed.


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InvisibleGreen_T
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Re: California's Marijuana Initiative: A Problem for Obama? [Re: Ubitsa]
    #13259825 - 09/28/10 03:21 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Ubitsa said:
Quote:

Green_T said:
If Obama sues, then the tea party will gain power, since they can rally against the feds interfering with the states.




...the "leaders" of the tea party and supporters like Sarah Palin would much rather institute the death penalty for people found w/ weed.




I'm an atheist, but sometimes I wish those lot were catholic. I'd rather get 5 hail marys than jail.


--------------------

"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson

Legalize Meth | Drug War Victims

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OfflineEdgeChaos
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Registered: 08/04/06
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Re: California's Marijuana Initiative: A Problem for Obama? [Re: Green_T]
    #13260112 - 09/28/10 04:17 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Obama has been trying to please everyone and this issue is divided in a very strange way. Usually I try to guess what comes next but this is just too weird. It sucks that he's not white so he could side with the freedom fighters.

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Offlinecurenado
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Re: California's Marijuana Initiative: A Problem for Obama? [Re: EdgeChaos]
    #13260401 - 09/28/10 05:18 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Actually, when God says in the first book that you can have MJ all you want - there are no hail mary's involved and brother can "nose out" (word) After the flood he tells Noah too "...and as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything."

Markos don't like it much but the literal word in the bible knh bsm, "sweet cane", was later transliterated by the greeks as kanna boos and still later into the latin cannabis.

No hail mary's involved - unless you are so high on sweet cane you think you are actually talking to her person to person, then it's good:thumbup:

:lol:


--------------------
Yours in the Natural State Land of Enchantment!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."

"When psychotomimetics become cultural, so does cultural psychosis"

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InvisibleJohn
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Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 7,026
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
Re: California's Marijuana Initiative: A Problem for Obama? [Re: curenado]
    #13260858 - 09/28/10 06:40 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

you mean this passage?

http://bible.cc/genesis/1-29.htm

I'm sure many would be happy to argue semantics with you over the last part concerning using it for food.

Most believe getting intoxicated is a sin of it's own right anyway (including legal things like cigg and alcohol), so regardless of anything they will see it as a sin.


--------------------
There's a thin line between sanity and insanity... and I just snorted it.

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