Home | Community | Message Board

NorthSpore.com BOOMR Bag!
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1
Invisibledwpineal
Psychedelic Artist
 User Gallery


Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 4,667
Chaos Erupts Over Prop 19 at California Cannabis Expo
    #13257674 - 09/28/10 05:51 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

http://cannabisculture.com/v2/content/2010/09/27/Chaos-Erupts-Over-Prop-19-California-Cannabis-Expo

Chaos Erupts Over Prop 19 at California Cannabis Expo
t is fair to say that Proposition 19, the Legalize, Tax & Regulate Cannabis initiative on the November 2 ballot in California is yet another headline-grabbing controversial measure facing Golden State voters, but not many expected it to create such a division in the marijuana community.

Almost 15 years ago, California voters approved Proposition 215, the landmark bill that legalized marijuana for medical use. Since the passage of Prop. 215 and subsequently SB420 which added further protections for marijuana patients, 13 other states have followed suit and a dispensary model was created in California that is being emulated around the country.

In the last 15 years, the laws have loosened and the cannabis cultivation, education and wholesale market has boomed, even amidst the most devastating world recession since the Great Depression. In April of 2010, the 1st International Cannabis and Hemp Expo (INTCHE) in San Francisco featured the largest marijuana consumption area of any legal cannabis event and was so popular that an encore of the event was held again at San Francisco’s Cow Palace last weekend.

But unlike the April expo, this event was not a celebration of the right to openly consume marijuana in public. With only 5 weeks to go until the November 2 election, tensions were high over whether to vote to pass Prop 19.

What was meant to be a debate and forum on Prop 19 devolved into chaos. The bill’s creator and sponsor, Richard Lee, the founder of Oaksterdam University, was so loudly heckled and booed that when it was his turn to speak he got red in the face and yelled into the microphone, “We’re all for fucking legalization! This is the best we can do right now!” and then a quieter aside to panelist Chris Conrad, Publisher of West Coast Leaf, “I’m done,” was picked up by the microphones. Conrad spoke to represent the “Yes on 19,” opinion for much of the remainder of the debate.

Earlier in the day, the No on 19 campaign was vigorously passing out flyers at their booth and around the expo. Many were a breakdown of the perceived loss of rights for patients under the bill, what they see as a license for cities to run wild with taxation, and that Lanette Davies, the Director of the Center for Patients Rights, was unfairly removed from the Prop 19 debate panel because “Richard didn’t want to debate her”

As the panelists were taking the stage a group of No on 19 activists showed up with picket signs chanting “No on 19!” as the panelist took their seats. Many of the protesters were from the web-based group “Stoners Against Legalization,” most notably cannabis writer Dragonfly de la Luz.

At the start of the debate, there were 5 panelists: Richard Lee and Chris Conrad for Yes on 19 and George Mull,a Northern California attorney who works with various Sacramento-area dispensaries, Lanette Davies, and Bishop Ron Allen for No on 19. Moments before the start of the debate Davies grabbed a microphone and announced that she had been kicked off the panel again. No on 19 supporters, angry at Lanette’s removal, drowned out the moderator as she tried to announce the panel and rules of the debate. Nate Bradley, a representative of Law Enforcement Against Prohibition (LEAP) rushed up to the stage, “Can you try to act like adults?” he demanded.

The No on 19 side argued that the patient rights established under Prop. 215 and SB420 would be lost if Prop 19 passes and that some cities are already planning to levee unaffordable taxes on personal cultivation. They cited plans by the City of Rancho Cordova (Sacramento County) that they say could create taxes of up to $90,000 a year for patients growing their own.

“If you want to vote for the legalization of marijuana, this is not the bill to do it with,” said Bishop Ron Allen of the International Faith Based Coalition. Allen is against all drug use and referenced the taxation of alcohol and tobacco and their health costs to society. “Tobacco taxes bring in $25 billion a year, but the health costs to society are $200 billion,” he added that smoking 3-5 joints a day is equivalent to smoking a pack of cigarettes and that no amount of taxes collected on it would equal the health costs to society created by it.

Yes on 19, met by much louder opposition than the No on 19 side, argued that patient’s rights are are untouched and therefore protected under Prop. 19 and that the cities and counties that levee heavy taxes or choose not to allow sales will lose out to the ones who do. Chris Conrad pulled up the proposition on a projector and attempted to show the audience the protections in the bill but was also drowned out by hecklers. Visibly irritated, he also yelled into the microphone, “Prop 19 is perfect! It is on the ballot! I can vote yes on 19!”, he added that he was one of the parties responsible for Prop 215 being on the ballot in 1996 and had been instrumental in getting SB420 passed. “If you are against 19, are you saying you would rather face prison? We had a Prop 19 [a similar legalization bill, also assigned the name “Prop 19”] that was supposed to legalize marijuana in 1972, it took us 38 years to get it back on the ballot. This will change the world, not just California.” Richard stepped in to comment that this bill is instrumental in fighting the drug war just south of Mexico’s drug war, and is being supported by current marijuana prisoners like Marc Emery and Eddy Lepp.

When it came time to take questions from the audience, it was much of the same sort of heated non-constructive questioning and commentary. Steve D’Angelo, owner and founder of Harborside Healther Center in Oakland took to the microphone. “I have been a cannabis activist for 37 years and it is sad to see everyone so divided... If Jack Herer was here, although this bill is not perfect, I believe he would walk into the voting booth and vote YES. It is not perfect, but we cant go into the voting booth and choose, NO. This is what we have and this is what we should work from.”

Dennis Peron, creator of Proposition 215 also took the microphone, ‘You could have done something great Richard, but you didn’t consult us, you ignored all of us,” he said.

“No, I didn’t, I came to you Dennis and we spoke about it,” Lee claimed. Peron taught at Oaksterdam University until he and Lee became divided over Proposition 19.

One audience commentator visiting from Florida pointed out that Prop 19 is not just important for Californians, “California has the opportunity to stand up and legalize marijuana. To see you bickering over wording and technicalities is disappointing.“

The debate had to be cut short because it ran over the time allotted for the expo.

Recent poll numbers show the measure winning by 4 points, although it is my belief that these numbers cannot be anywhere near to accurate as many field polls are conducted by phone and marijuana is still a federally illegal Schedule 1 drug.

I would recommend all California voters actually read the bill for themselves – in its entirety – before spreading rumors or largely campaigning for one side or the other.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinel3estever
sir

Registered: 09/27/10
Posts: 230
Last seen: 6 years, 5 months
Re: Chaos Erupts Over Prop 19 at California Cannabis Expo [Re: dwpineal]
    #13257683 - 09/28/10 06:00 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

taxes=better than jail...

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineskater_bum69
Stranger
Registered: 11/25/03
Posts: 9
Last seen: 13 years, 7 months
Re: Chaos Erupts Over Prop 19 at California Cannabis Expo [Re: dwpineal]
    #13257689 - 09/28/10 06:03 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

“Nature has placed mankind under the governance of two sovereign masters, pain and pleasure. It is for them alone to point out what we ought to do, as well as to determine what we shall do. On the one hand the standard of right and wrong, on the other the chain of causes and effects, are fastened to their throne. They govern us in all we do, in all we say, in all we think…”
— Jeremy Bentham

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGerman Kahuna
Facepalmer of Stoopid
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 15,798
Loc: On a Chemical Vacation
Re: Chaos Erupts Over Prop 19 at California Cannabis Expo [Re: dwpineal]
    #13257724 - 09/28/10 06:24 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Stoners Against Legalization




:picard:


--------------------
"Vegetarian" [ /ˌvedʒəˈteəriən/] - Ancient slang meaning "village idiot who can't hunt, fish or ride".

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSuperD
Cacti junky
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 6,648
Loc: The bridgesii bridge
Re: Chaos Erupts Over Prop 19 at California Cannabis Expo [Re: German Kahuna]
    #13257862 - 09/28/10 07:43 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

“Tobacco taxes bring in $25 billion a year, but the health costs to society are $200 billion,” he added that smoking 3-5 joints a day is equivalent to smoking a pack of cigarettes and that no amount of taxes collected on it would equal the health costs to society created by it.




His argument is terribly flawed because people ALREADY smoke "3-5 joints a day" and the gov is losing out on all that profit.  Strawman argument.

It really is disappointing to see so many people cry like babies over the little stipulations in this bill.  They aren't thinking BIG.  If they were, they'd realize very quickly that once legalization takes place in Cali, it will soon be legal in other states as well.


--------------------
:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreen_T
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 4,042
Loc: UK Flag
Re: Chaos Erupts Over Prop 19 at California Cannabis Expo [Re: SuperD]
    #13257913 - 09/28/10 07:56 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Even though this bill isn't PERFECT, it is a step in the right direction and should certainly be voted for.

On a side note, I read on reason.com that microbreweries didn't start popping up in the US until 1979:

Quote:


    In 1979, a clerical error in the 21st Amendment was corrected, and for the first time in nearly 50 years it became legal to brew small batches of beer at home. Home brewers who had little interest in cutting costs or making beer with mass appeal began brewing big, flavorful beers in a wide range of styles. Many of these home brewers decided to turn their passion into small businesses, and microbreweries began popping up all over the country.





Can you imagine people saying "prohibition shouldn't be repealed, because if it is we wouldn't be allowed microbreweries! Let's wait for the right bill!" :crazy:

In the same way, it would be foolish for people to be against prop 19 because "it only allows for an ounce" or "the taxes are too high" or "its not full legalization". Its called PROGRESSION. The people who are profiting off it's legal status are holding everyone back.

If prop 19 doesn't pass, it will be a big blow to the legalization movement, and we may not see a similar or "better" bill in a long time. The key is to reduce penalties until there are none (except for acceptable ones, like not being allowed to provide to minors).


--------------------

"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson

Legalize Meth | Drug War Victims

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblebigmike7104
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 07/12/10
Posts: 1,395
Loc: USA Flag
Re: Chaos Erupts Over Prop 19 at California Cannabis Expo [Re: SuperD]
    #13258040 - 09/28/10 08:35 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SuperD said:
Quote:

“Tobacco taxes bring in $25 billion a year, but the health costs to society are $200 billion,” he added that smoking 3-5 joints a day is equivalent to smoking a pack of cigarettes and that no amount of taxes collected on it would equal the health costs to society created by it.




His argument is terribly flawed because people ALREADY smoke "3-5 joints a day" and the gov is losing out on all that profit.  Strawman argument.




If he looked at recent scientific evidence he would see that Dr. Tashkin of UCLA showed that marijuana slows the spread of cancer(if he was referring to cancer) not cause it.

Edited by bigmike7104 (09/28/10 08:37 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineblujay
pass it b*ch!
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 5,120
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Chaos Erupts Over Prop 19 at California Cannabis Expo [Re: SuperD]
    #13258050 - 09/28/10 08:37 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

SuperD said:
Quote:

“Tobacco taxes bring in $25 billion a year, but the health costs to society are $200 billion,” he added that smoking 3-5 joints a day is equivalent to smoking a pack of cigarettes and that no amount of taxes collected on it would equal the health costs to society created by it.




His argument is terribly flawed because people ALREADY smoke "3-5 joints a day" and the gov is losing out on all that profit.  Strawman argument.

It really is disappointing to see so many people cry like babies over the little stipulations in this bill.  They aren't thinking BIG.  If they were, they'd realize very quickly that once legalization takes place in Cali, it will soon be legal in other states as well.




Jesus, it is a straw man argument, but you might point out that it's blatantly false and not only untrue but contradicted by most research.

Cigarettes have more chemicals in them than pot. Cigarettes have more tar in the than pot. People who smoke them smoke more of them and more often. Also, weed has been shown to slow the effects of cancer. If this were true, where are the widespread weed-smoking cancer victims of the last few generations? They aren't there, because they don't have cancer, because weed doesn't have carpet glue in it.


--------------------

wat man rly

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineblujay
pass it b*ch!
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 5,120
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
Re: Chaos Erupts Over Prop 19 at California Cannabis Expo [Re: blujay]
    #13258071 - 09/28/10 08:44 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

It's common bullshit spouted based on a study with less than 80 individuals many of whom also smoke cigarettes so really it's the news misrepresenting the study. All they really found was an insignifigant (based on tiny sample size) statistic that suggests smoking weed in addition to cigarettes increases your risk of cancer (duh) - everybody should be smart enough to know that the effects of weed as studied to slow cancer do not apply to smoked pot. That's an effect observed on cells in a petri dish exposed to large concentrations of THC or whatever.

ThE LIIIIIES


--------------------

wat man rly

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisible5-HT2A

Registered: 01/30/10
Posts: 1,794
Re: Chaos Erupts Over Prop 19 at California Cannabis Expo [Re: bigmike7104]
    #13258147 - 09/28/10 09:02 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bigmike7104 said:
Quote:

SuperD said:
Quote:

“Tobacco taxes bring in $25 billion a year, but the health costs to society are $200 billion,” he added that smoking 3-5 joints a day is equivalent to smoking a pack of cigarettes and that no amount of taxes collected on it would equal the health costs to society created by it.




His argument is terribly flawed because people ALREADY smoke "3-5 joints a day" and the gov is losing out on all that profit.  Strawman argument.




If he looked at recent scientific evidence he would see that Dr. Tashkin of UCLA showed that marijuana slows the spread of cancer(if he was referring to cancer) not cause it.




Ya it helps precancerous cells kill themselves. So you get some bad stuff along with the good stuff which also takes care of the bad stuff. Where are you gonna find a fairer fucking deal than that?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleGreen_T
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 4,042
Loc: UK Flag
Re: Chaos Erupts Over Prop 19 at California Cannabis Expo [Re: 5-HT2A]
    #13258178 - 09/28/10 09:10 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Here's a thought, mr DEA guy: Why don't we legalize it because what someone chooses to smoke is none of the government's business, instead of some shoddy cost-benefit analysis?

With his argument, if marijuana had a better cost-benefit to society than tobacco, then shouldn't marijuana be made legal and tobacco illegal?

And what exactly are the health costs to society caused by marijuana (see http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/#tobacco)? Lung cancer? nope. Emphysema? nope. Cirrhosis of the liver? nope...


--------------------

"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson

Legalize Meth | Drug War Victims

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblebigmike7104
Stranger
 User Gallery
Registered: 07/12/10
Posts: 1,395
Loc: USA Flag
Re: Chaos Erupts Over Prop 19 at California Cannabis Expo [Re: 5-HT2A]
    #13258183 - 09/28/10 09:12 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I'm not even really sure of the negatives anymore, except for maybe short term memory issues which only happens when your high(at least for me in and in only high amounts), it seems most of it seems to have been disproven, though I'm sure there are still some. Either way what I do to my body doesn't harm others so who cares.


--------------------
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind
Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must
Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAnastomosisJihad
Hominid
Male


Registered: 01/01/08
Posts: 700
Loc: Ohio
Re: Chaos Erupts Over Prop 19 at California Cannabis Expo [Re: bigmike7104]
    #13258255 - 09/28/10 09:30 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

And what exactly are the health costs to society caused by marijuana (see http://www.drugpolicy.org/marijuana/factsmyths/#tobacco)? Lung cancer? nope. Emphysema? nope. Cirrhosis of the liver? nope...




Pot makes you immoral and gay. It turns hard working God fearing Americans into lazy, homosexual, atheist, communists. That is way worser than cancer!


--------------------
come together

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinej0nnyb0y05
IBelieveInBelivin
Male


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2,076
Loc: Going Going, Back Back to
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: Chaos Erupts Over Prop 19 at California Cannabis Expo [Re: AnastomosisJihad]
    #13258414 - 09/28/10 10:19 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

From most of my legalized friends here in cali, their issue is that its pretty much almost legal yet still is a fruitful industry. They are worried for the price of MJ to drop. And that they won't be making as much money. Pretty selfish if you ask me.


--------------------
.....Healing Of People Everywhere.....


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineHappy2fly
The Champ!
Male User Gallery


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 1,287
Loc: The land of many thousand... Flag
Last seen: 10 years, 5 months
Re: Chaos Erupts Over Prop 19 at California Cannabis Expo [Re: j0nnyb0y05]
    #13258536 - 09/28/10 10:50 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

j0nnyb0y05 said:
Pretty selfish if you ask me.




--------------------
The fire has many things to teach.
But so does the human experience.. which is like fire, sometimes you just need to stoke the coals and sometimes you just need to add a log or reposition the log matrix. But a well built fire will be much more self-sustaining than a poorly built one, and they all need love to grow. And don't fuck around or your might burn yourself. Must always respect the fire. - Shroomism

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineNymphaea
Money-less Wanderer
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/16/09
Posts: 2,061
Loc: Mitten Flag
Last seen: 9 days, 13 hours
Re: Chaos Erupts Over Prop 19 at California Cannabis Expo [Re: Happy2fly]
    #13258656 - 09/28/10 11:23 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Stoners dealers against legalization.


--------------------
:huxleyfacepalm:


Plant Trees

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSuperD
Cacti junky
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 6,648
Loc: The bridgesii bridge
Re: Chaos Erupts Over Prop 19 at California Cannabis Expo [Re: Nymphaea]
    #13258819 - 09/28/10 11:56 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

You would think the fact that some herb growers striving to keep marijuana illegal would be a wake-up call to the opponents of Prop 19.  They are keeping 'criminals' in business!


--------------------
:super:D
Manoa said:
I need to stop spending all my money on plants and take up a cheaper hobby, like heroin. :lol:

Looking for Rauhocereus riosaniensis seeds or live specimen(s), :pm: me if you have any for trade

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineReposadoXochipilli
Here, there, inbetween
Male User Gallery


Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 7,501
Loc: Sand and sunshine
Last seen: 1 day, 8 minutes
Re: Chaos Erupts Over Prop 19 at California Cannabis Expo [Re: SuperD]
    #13259139 - 09/28/10 01:12 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

a lot of misconceptions about it, people need to wake up, we are talking about LEGAL marijuana... fucking greed


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1

Shop: Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Bridgetown Botanicals Bridgetown Botanicals   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* California Medical Survey: The Adverse Effects of Marijuana Wronguy 1,246 2 08/27/07 03:56 AM
by elbisivni
* Cannabis in Amsterdam and in San Francisco MikeOLogical 4,910 5 12/04/09 10:58 PM
by sonar
* Cannabis club with 20,000 patients closes veggieM 1,299 1 06/10/05 04:10 PM
by beyondsisxth
* West Hollywood Medical Cannabis Club Busted by LAPD and IRS veggieM 2,356 2 05/13/05 11:15 AM
by CptnGarden
* Cannabis and Tobacco Smoke Are Not Equally Carcinogenic HeavyToilet 2,412 2 10/19/05 06:58 PM
by HeavyToilet
* California war on drugs a 100-year-old bust veggieM 1,745 0 03/04/07 09:02 AM
by veggie
* Cannabis Church Files Complaint Against City of Angels veggieM 1,237 1 02/14/07 07:10 PM
by SuperD
* Dutch children of 12 'addicted to cannabis' veggieM 1,914 9 03/22/06 10:03 AM
by TLG

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: motaman, veggie, Alan Rockefeller, Mostly_Harmless
3,170 topic views. 0 members, 4 guests and 9 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.032 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 14 queries.