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Green_T


Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 4,042
Loc: UK
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Calif measure shows state's conflicted link to pot
#13253355 - 09/27/10 11:49 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Good article, with a couple of opportunities for facepalming. Interesting viewpoint at the end
Calif measure shows state's conflicted link to pot 27 Sept, 2010 - Associated Press
SAN FRANCISCO — California has a long history of defying conventional wisdom on the issue of marijuana, including its embrace of the drug in the 1960s and its landmark medical pot law 14 years ago. So it may not be all that surprising that a November ballot measure to legalize the drug has created some odd alliances and scenarios.
Pot growers have opposed it. Some police have favored it. Polls show the public is deeply divided. Only politicians have lined up as expected: Nearly all major party candidates oppose the measure. And hanging over the whole debate is the fact that marijuana remains illegal under federal law.
As the Nov. 2 election nears, Proposition 19 has become about much more than the pros and cons of the drug itself. The campaigns have framed the vote as a referendum on everything from jobs and taxes to crime and the environment.
The measure gained ground in a Field Poll released Sunday, pulling ahead 49 percent to 42 percent among likely voters. The poll also found that Californians have become steadily more permissive toward the drug since pollsters began quizzing state residents about their attitudes 40 years ago.
Proponents say the measure is a way for the struggling state and its cities to raise badly needed funds. A legal pot industry, they say, would create jobs while undercutting violent criminals who profit off the illegal trade in the drug.
"I think it's a golden opportunity for California voters to strike a real blow against the (Mexican) drug cartels and drug gangs," said Joseph McNamara, who served as San Jose's police chief for about 15 years. "That would be a greater blow than we ever struck during my 35 years in law enforcement."
Supporters, including a group of former and current law enforcement officials, have called attention to the failure of the so-called "War on Drugs" to put a dent in pot production in California, and they say police need to pursue more dangerous crimes.
To pull ahead, opponents will have to convince voters that legalized marijuana will create a greater public safety threat than keeping it illegal.
"If the price drops, more people are going to buy it. Low-income people are going to buy marijuana instead of buying food, which happens with substance abusers," said Pleasant Hill police Chief Pete Dunbar, who also speaks for the California Police Chiefs' Association, one of many law enforcement groups against the measure.
As a result, he said, legalizing marijuana would only encourage the cycle of theft and violence driven by people who need money to buy drugs. Opponents of Proposition 19 argue that the wording of the proposed law would compromise public safety by gutting restrictions on driving and going to work while high.
The state district attorneys' group has come out publicly against Proposition 19, as have many county governments, the editorial boards of the state's biggest newspapers and Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, who said the law would make California a "laughingstock."
Under the proposed law, adults 21 and older could possess up to an ounce of marijuana for personal use and grow gardens up to 25 square feet.
The proposal would allow cities and governments to decide for themselves whether to tax and allow pot sales. Opponents say a vague, disorganized patchwork of regulations would ensue and lead to chaos for police and courts.
There's also the prospect of legal chaos, given the fact that pot will remain illegal under federal law regardless of what happens. Every former Drug Enforcement Administration boss is asking President Barack Obama to sue California if the measure passes on the grounds that federal law trumps state law — the same argument the administration used in suing Arizona over its immigration law.
Proposition 19 is the brainchild of Richard Lee, an Oakland medical marijuana entrepreneur who spent more than $1 million to get the measure on the ballot. Also the founder of a trade school for aspiring marijuana growers and retailers, Lee has pushed legal marijuana as a boon to the state's economy and an important source of tax revenue to help close the state's massive budget deficit. The Service Employees International Union, the state's biggest union, has endorsed the measure as an economic booster.
But analysts have said the economic consequences of a legalized pot trade are difficult to predict. The state Board of Equalization last year said a marijuana legalization measure proposed in the state legislature could have brought California up to $1.4 billion in tax revenue. On Friday, the agency said Proposition 19, which leaves marijuana taxing decisions to local governments, contained too many unknowns for its analysts to estimate how much the measure might generate.
In July, the nonpartisan RAND Drug Policy Research Center forecast that legalizing marijuana could send prices plunging by as much as 90 percent. Lower prices could mean less tax revenue even as pot consumption rose, the group said.
The potential price drop has brought unexpected opposition, or at least suspicion, from rural pot farmers who fear the loss of their traditional, though legally risky, way of life.
Marijuana has become so crucial to rural economies along the state's North Coast that even some local government officials are working on plans for coping with a pot downturn.
The state's medical marijuana economy is thriving as hundreds of retail dispensaries across California sell pot to hundreds of thousands of qualified patients. And some medical marijuana supporters have said Proposition 19 could undermine the credibility of the drug as a medical treatment.
"I'm just against the whole concept of the recreational use of marijuana," said Dennis Peron, the San Francisco activist who was the driving force behind the 1996 ballot measure that legalized medical marijuana.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson Legalize Meth | Drug War Victims
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auronlives69
psychedelic monk



Registered: 04/19/09
Posts: 655
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Re: Calif measure shows state's conflicted link to pot [Re: Green_T]
#13253625 - 09/27/10 12:40 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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~Low-income people are going to buy marijuana instead of buying food~ what do these ignoranuses think pot is some kind of herbal crack, if anything the price drop would leave them with some money to spend on munchies
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Mickalopagus
living in perverty


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Re: Calif measure shows state's conflicted link to pot [Re: auronlives69]
#13253646 - 09/27/10 12:44 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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just wait, this is only the beginning of smear articles to come out against prop 19, its going to get insane over the next 2-4 weeks
-------------------- notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... " ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
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Re: Calif measure shows state's conflicted link to pot [Re: Mickalopagus]
#13254280 - 09/27/10 02:52 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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I think this was a pretty good, unbiased article.
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Scudreloaded
psychonaut



Registered: 03/15/09
Posts: 3,003
Loc: Wonderland
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Re: Calif measure shows state's conflicted link to pot [Re: NetDiver]
#13254448 - 09/27/10 03:29 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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It did have a few biased points i think dude. saying that people will get more violent over pot, spend food money on pot etc... even "making california a laughingstock" was biased. a lot of politicians are against this because they make soo much money off of TOBACCO and ALCOHOL they don't want to have any of the money those people are spending on ALCOHOL and TOBACCO go to weed. alcohol companies don't make money off people who drink one night a week, they make money off people who drink every day.
Though this artivle wasn't horrible.. there was another post on here that listed pot as "creating medical problems"..which is un-true. please provide documentation. people aren't violent on pot. i've never been in a car wreck while stoned... ive never felt the need to steal for pot..
...but with alcohol and a few harder drugs i have... some medical growers may loose buisiness but after a while you won't be able to find many "good quality" natural pot plants..it'll go back to being a weed growing on the side of the road...and the companies that still offer weed will still be making money out of it. This law cuts out the "drug dealer" out of the equation somewhat. i'd rather go buy weed from a walmart than some shadey guy thats a friend of a friend... ...i'm just saying my veiws... i buy pot from a pretty good source but some people don't have this luxury. trust is a very hard thing to come by for some... but hey guys i gotta run to work..i'll ttyl HOPEFULLY THIS 19 PASSES!!!! I'M ROUTIN FOR YA CALI!!!!
-------------------- We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold. - Hunter S. Thompson
- believe what you may but take the internet with a grain of salt
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Rabid Jelly Bean
Stranger



Registered: 01/25/10
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Re: Calif measure shows state's conflicted link to pot [Re: auronlives69]
#13254659 - 09/27/10 04:13 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
auronlives69 said: ~Low-income people are going to buy marijuana instead of buying food~ what do these ignoranuses think pot is some kind of herbal crack, if anything the price drop would leave them with some money to spend on munchies
They already spend it on alcohol. What's one more option going to do?
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I AM SWIM
doin' thangs



Registered: 12/24/08
Posts: 9,999
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Re: Calif measure shows state's conflicted link to pot [Re: Rabid Jelly Bean]
#13254990 - 09/27/10 05:08 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
"If the price drops, more people are going to buy it. Low-income people are going to buy marijuana instead of buying food, which happens with substance abusers," said Pleasant Hill police Chief Pete Dunbar, who also speaks for the California Police Chiefs' Association, one of many law enforcement groups against the measure.
uhhh
if the price of weed drops, more ppl will buy weed.
weed makes ppl hungry
hungry people buy food
if the price of weed drops
ppl will be able to buy more weed and more food
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DrugsRGood
Analytical Anarchist



Registered: 07/10/09
Posts: 689
Loc: Earth
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Re: Calif measure shows state's conflicted link to pot [Re: I AM SWIM]
#13255666 - 09/27/10 07:29 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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"Low-income people are going to buy marijuana instead of buying food"
If the price drops to 20 bucks for a 7(and it would probably drop lower), that's 14 joints and I think that's just about enough for the most extreme daily pot "abuser". 140$ a week is minimal.... If you can't pay that without being able to buy food, get a job.
You'll be allowed to grow your weed too so that quote doesn't make any fuckin sense.
-------------------- Life is an adventure; not knowing what's ahead brings a great sense of anticipation; and meeting women is the reward.
Edited by DrugsRGood (09/27/10 07:30 PM)
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openmind
curious



Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 13,990
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Re: Calif measure shows state's conflicted link to pot [Re: Mickalopagus]
#13255686 - 09/27/10 07:32 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
mick said: just wait, this is only the beginning of smear articles to come out against prop 19, its going to get insane over the next 2-4 weeks
I know!...Me and my buddy were just talking about this the other night.
Gonna be interesting 
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blujay
pass it b*ch!



Registered: 04/01/09
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Re: Calif measure shows state's conflicted link to pot [Re: DrugsRGood]
#13255959 - 09/27/10 08:17 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'll be happy to live to see it legalized, but I wish I could live to see what happens with the inevitable GM superweed.
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  wat man rly
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Green_T


Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 4,042
Loc: UK
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Re: Calif measure shows state's conflicted link to pot [Re: openmind]
#13257506 - 09/28/10 03:15 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
openmind said:
Quote:
mick said: just wait, this is only the beginning of smear articles to come out against prop 19, its going to get insane over the next 2-4 weeks
I know!...Me and my buddy were just talking about this the other night.
Gonna be interesting  .
I wonder what effect the smear advertisements will have. Hopefully it will rile up voters who want an end to all the bullshit!
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"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson Legalize Meth | Drug War Victims
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whatever123
Whatever I did, I'm sorry



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Re: Calif measure shows state's conflicted link to pot [Re: Green_T]
#13262331 - 09/28/10 11:20 PM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Green_T said:
I wonder what effect the smear advertisements will have. Hopefully it will rile up voters who want an end to all the bullshit!
It's mostly gonna consist of scaring people about drugged driving, people being high at work, and a "legal nightmare"; all lies that are easily debunked. People are going to see through it. The fact that this is even a serious issue now that's not just being laughed off is a huge step, and I have no doubt that with some work, this will get passed.
-------------------- Koala Koolio said: there should be a 3 month waiting period between registration and posting.
Edited by whatever123 (09/28/10 11:20 PM)
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Green_T


Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 4,042
Loc: UK
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Re: Calif measure shows state's conflicted link to pot [Re: whatever123]
#13262921 - 09/29/10 04:08 AM (13 years, 7 months ago) |
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^ True.
It is interesting how the opposition is based into two camps:
Those who don't smoke marijuana- Favorite fallacies: drugged driving, people being high at work, businesses losing federal funding, protect teh kids, etc
Those who do smoke marijuana- Favorite fallacies: Prop 215 will be superseded/it takes away rights from 215, it won't allow people to deal on the street anymore, it only allows for an ounce, most people who smoke have a medical card anyway, its only good for the big corporations, etc..
The fact that people who smoke oppose this bill is a quite disheartening, and if you know anyone, i strongly suggest debating them. The least we can do is get those in the marijuana community on or side; those votes are needed!
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"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson Legalize Meth | Drug War Victims
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