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 Evolving
Resident Cynic
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 Re: Human Shields...Genius!!!!  [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#1325026 - 02/21/03 01:49 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Here are a couple of quotes from General George S. Patton that I think are appropriate to this topic...
"Untutored courage is useless in the face of educated bullets."
"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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Innvertigo
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Re: Human Shields...Genius!!!! [Re: Evolving]
#1325342 - 02/21/03 05:49 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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exactly.... 
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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 Baby_Hitler
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Re: Human Shields...Genius!!!! [Re: Evolving]
#1325485 - 02/21/03 07:39 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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I'm all for having an invincible military that can fight a war, and not get our soldiers killed, but hate towards america is our single greatest enemy. When we fight and die people respect that more than when we kill them from 500 miles away from the safety of a controll panel.
In the end I'm afraid it will just make the real enemy stronger, and we will end up killing America ourselves.
"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
Yeah, like we did on 9/11/01.
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Phred
Fred's son
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Re: Human Shields...Genius!!!! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#1325571 - 02/21/03 08:54 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Baby_Hitler
When we fight and die people respect that more than when we kill them from 500 miles away from the safety of a controll panel.
Why does every nation in the world with a military constantly upgrade its weaponry? No soldier (with the possible of exception of Islamic fundamentalists anxious to enter paradise prematurely) would prefer to risk his life if there are less risky ways of accomplishing the same objective, nor would his family, nor would a military commander worth a pinch of coon shit.
As for 500 miles, what's the difference between 500 miles and 40 miles? There have been relatively inexpensive artillery pieces available to just about anyone for decades that have no difficulty dropping a shell within a 3 meter radius from 40 or more miles away, just by pushing a button on a control panel. Hussein has them. Note that there is no way of shooting down an artillery shell.
Face to face combat with hand-held weapons became the last resort in military conflict quite some time ago.
pinky
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Baby_Hitler
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Re: Human Shields...Genius!!!! [Re: Phred]
#1325628 - 02/21/03 10:08 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Like I said:
"I'm all for having an invincible military that can fight a war, and not get our soldiers killed"
It would be stupid not to feel this way, I'm just saying not to discount the cost that comes from it, which is an increase in the rate at which we create new enemies. We can destroy our enemies at a faster rate than ever before, but as a result we create new ones at a faster rate as well.
The ability to kill without consequences creates a higher level of loathing from the enemy, and a stronger desire to deliver consequences via means like the 9/11 attack, and adds to the unrest from which most of our problems arise.
I hope these human shields don't wind up being slaughtered by their own people, but if they do it may actually help buffer some of the resentment coming from our currently passive, but potential future enemies.
It would generate a non-fear based form of respect that we have lost due to consequence free warfare. Fear based respect results in an increase in the loathing that these people feel towards us, a loathing that eliminates any gain we might recieve from the fear itself.
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Phred
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Re: Human Shields...Genius!!!! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#1325643 - 02/21/03 10:27 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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baby_Hitler writes:
I'm just saying not to discount the cost that comes from it, which is an increase in the rate at which we create new enemies.
I disagree that this is an inevitable consequence of hi-tech warfare. New enemies are not created through HOW an opponent is defeated (with the exception of one who uses chemical, biological or atomic means in order to defeat said enemy), they are created by WHO is defeated.
As an example, there was a Marxist terrorist group in Peru who bombed a few Kentucky Fried Chicken outlets there in retaliation for the UN coalition ousting Iraqi forces from Kuwait in 1991. Would those guys have done the same if the Iraqis had been tossed out using artillery and rifles and mortars and grenades? You bet. Would they have done the same if the UN forces had been bombing the crap out of... oh, I don't know...let's say France, with cruise missiles? Not a chance.
Or look at the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Would bin Laden have sent his minions on that mission if the US had been bombing the crap out of Tel Aviv and Riyadh with long distance cruise missiles?
pinky
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist
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Re: Human Shields...Genius!!!! [Re: Phred]
#1325659 - 02/21/03 10:46 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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So then if we defeat no one, then we will be safe!
*WHEW* That was easy! 
A lot fof things factor into it. I think who we don't kill is a MAJOR factor. One I don't think we spend enough resources on.
If we had a weapon that only killed bad guys America might actually succeed in its goal to solve all the worlds problems with explosions.
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Baby_Hitler
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Re: Human Shields...Genius!!!! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#1325660 - 02/21/03 10:48 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Oh, and those Marxist terrorists were already our enemies.
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Phred
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Re: Human Shields...Genius!!!! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#1325664 - 02/21/03 10:58 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Baby_Hitler writes:
So then if we defeat no one, then we will be safe!
That strategy hasn't been too successful for France over the centuries.
Oh, and those Marxist terrorists were already our enemies.
Marxists hate chicken.
pinky
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist
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Re: Human Shields...Genius!!!! [Re: Phred]
#1325682 - 02/21/03 11:20 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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He Hates These Cans!!
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Re: Human Shields...Genius!!!! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#1325946 - 02/22/03 05:11 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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ha ha ha..the jerk, i love that movie.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Evolving
Resident Cynic
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Re: Human Shields...Genius!!!! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#1326068 - 02/22/03 06:37 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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I am not pro-war, U.S. government officials and the people should heed the words of George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Dwight Eisenhower in the matters of foreign policy and the military industrial complex. However, being a so-called 'human shield' is stupid, they are humans, but they certainly aren't shields. Once they're dead they will no longer be able to engage in discourse to convince others of their cause. Many whom they hope to convince in the U.S. will then look upon them as fools (dead fools), where as now they may only disagree with them.
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To call humans 'rational beings' does injustice to the term, 'rational.' Humans are capable of rational thought, but it is not their essence. Humans are animals, beasts with complex brains. Humans, more often than not, utilize their cerebrum to rationalize what their primal instincts, their preconceived notions, and their emotional desires have presented as goals - humans are rationalizing beings.
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Re: Human Shields...Genius!!!! [Re: Evolving]
#1326159 - 02/22/03 07:40 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Once they're dead they will no longer be able to engage in discourse to convince others of their cause
yet another reason to speed up this process...
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist
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Re: Human Shields...Genius!!!! [Re: Evolving]
#1326264 - 02/22/03 09:02 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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No man. They'll be like Obi-Wan, killing them will just make them stronger.
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Re: Human Shields...Genius!!!! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#1326506 - 02/22/03 11:19 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
killing them will just make them stronger
it's worth a try...
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Re: Human Shields...Genius!!!! [Re: Innvertigo]
#1351914 - 03/05/03 06:37 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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why are the human shields leaving? Some didn't think they would actually die..ha ha this is too funny.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Baby_Hitler
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Re: Human Shields...Genius!!!! [Re: Innvertigo]
#1352365 - 03/05/03 10:28 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Some didn't think they would actually die
That's what the soldiers think too.
But they're wrong! Heheheheheheheh
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Innvertigo
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Re: Human Shields...Genius!!!! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#1352428 - 03/05/03 11:02 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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which soldiers?
Human shields do an about-face
LONDON - The human shields have turned into giant chickens.
Some of the peace activists who went to Iraq to serve as shields in the event of war returned home - fearing for their safety, a spokesman said.
The human shields are mostly European activists who drove to Baghdad in two double-decker buses last month, intending to guard civilian sites from a U.S.-led military attack.
"The aim was always a mass migration and if we had had five to ten thousand people here there would never be a war," said spokesman Christiaan Briggs. "We do not have those numbers."
The Sunday Telegraph newspaper reported that nine of the 11 British human shields in the bus convoy had left Baghdad.
Briggs said about a dozen Brits remain in Iraq alongside several dozen from other countries.
U.S. officials have said that it is a war crime to use civilians as human shields and that there's no way of guaranteeing their safety.
On Friday, the head of Sweden's largest peace organization urged human shields to leave Iraq, saying they were being used for propaganda purposes by Saddam Hussein.
About face!!
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
Edited by Innvertigo (03/05/03 11:05 AM)
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Chills420 version2
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Re: Human Shields...Genius!!!! [Re: Innvertigo]
#1352624 - 03/05/03 12:25 PM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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can u say hostage 
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You may say Im a dreamer,
but Im not the only one,
I hope some day you'll join us,
And the world will live as one.
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Sombie
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Re: Human Shields...Genius!!!! [Re: Innvertigo]
#1354434 - 03/06/03 07:56 AM (21 years, 7 months ago) |
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Heh heh, yeah, people are rather stupid to go there and be a human sheild.
I am not saying their cause isnt noble, but don't look at me to show them pity when they get their ass blown up, they went there knowing full well that they went there to stop missiles, its their fault they didn't consider that they might not beable to stop missiles.
And one last thing, Iraq... ehh I think we should stop them eventully, I mean, letting them go would be appeasment, and that caused WW2, however, it is painfully obvious N. Korea is much more urgent. However since Bush is not going into Iraq to enforce the treaty and stopping an agressive dictator and is instead going there to get re-elected, he isn't going to mess with N. Korea, because that would make for a much larger war, and he only wants popularity, not to "defend the national security" like he says.
So in a nut shell: Appeasing Iraq by letting them go would be bad, but Appeasing N. Korea would be much worse, Bush is more worried about popularty then anything so he will attack the weaker one to not risk a hard war that we would face in N. Korea
I am really high, so uh, ill edit it later, but did that make anysense? (not that you agree or disagree, but did you understand?)
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"America... just a nation of two hundred million used car salesmen with all the money we need to buy guns and no qualms about killing anybody else in the world who tries to make us uncomfortable." - Hunter S Thompson
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