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InvisibleGreen_T
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Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 4,042
Loc: UK Flag
Re: DUI with accident legal advice [Re: Seuss]
    #13235676 - 09/23/10 12:24 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
I've always argued that there needs to be some kind of "impairment test" that is given to a driver suspected of being impaired.  Doesn't matter if the impairment is from lack of sleep, smoking cannabis, drinking alcohol, or taking prescription medications... they should all be treated the same.  Film the test and let a jury decide.  No more arbitrary meaningless numbers.




(Cut and paste from an earlier post of mine - suggested a reaction time test)

I also think it may be difficult in any case to measure active chemicals. It may be better to have a portable test to measure reaction time, to measure "level of intoxication". That means if you are high but can still react fine, you do not get punished as severely as someone with a delayed reaction time. Delayed reaction time is the essence of why drinking and driving is a bad idea.

As for how to measure this, I remember the "yardstick" test in grade school. The teacher held a yardstick upright, and we had to place our thumb and forefinger at the 50cm line like we were about to pinch it, but not touch it. Without warning, the teacher would drop it, and we would have to pinch it as soon as we saw it dropping. The distance it fell measured our reaction time.

Perhaps a modification of this test could be used in future - maybe have a box with a button and a light, and you press the button as soon as you see a goes off, then the average out of 5 is measured? The nice thing about measuring reaction time is that it acts like a universal test to cover any substance or state of mind in which someone is not fit to drive.


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"I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man" - Thomas Jefferson

Legalize Meth | Drug War Victims

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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
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Registered: 03/10/07
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Re: DUI with accident legal advice [Re: Green_T]
    #13240388 - 09/24/10 12:29 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
So when he hits an old lady or some little kid, and kills or cripples them, it's OK because it was a scooter?




You could say the same thing about bicycles or jogging while high, or riding a scooter sober, etc.  It is not completely ok, but the risk to others is much less.

The world will never be completly risk free, you need to draw the line somewhere. 

Quote:

Green_T said:
I also think it may be difficult in any case to measure active chemicals. It may be better to have a portable test to measure reaction time, to measure "level of intoxication". That means if you are high but can still react fine, you do not get punished as severely as someone with a delayed reaction time. Delayed reaction time is the essence of why drinking and driving is a bad idea.

As for how to measure this, I remember the "yardstick" test in grade school. The teacher held a yardstick upright, and we had to place our thumb and forefinger at the 50cm line like we were about to pinch it, but not touch it. Without warning, the teacher would drop it, and we would have to pinch it as soon as we saw it dropping. The distance it fell measured our reaction time.

Perhaps a modification of this test could be used in future - maybe have a box with a button and a light, and you press the button as soon as you see a goes off, then the average out of 5 is measured? The nice thing about measuring reaction time is that it acts like a universal test to cover any substance or state of mind in which someone is not fit to drive.




The yardstick test is a cool idea.

Another thing about imparement tests is that old people and people who are just kind of slow would get DUIĀ“s all the time even when they are sober. 

And that is why they will never be used.  Old people vote a lot more often than young people.

A fair way to do it would be to have the DUI laws require a positive chemical/alcohol test and also a slow reaction time.

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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: DUI with accident legal advice [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #13240903 - 09/24/10 02:19 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
So when he hits an old lady or some little kid, and kills or cripples them, it's OK because it was a scooter?




You could say the same thing about bicycles or jogging while high, or riding a scooter sober, etc.  It is not completely ok, but the risk to others is much less.

The world will never be completly risk free, you need to draw the line somewhere.




The problem is where some would draw the line is not the same as where the legal system might draw the line.

From my standpoint, driving a scooter while legally drunk is as bad as driving a car or truck while drunk. Your comment of the risk to others being much less would be of little consolation to the old lady who winds up with a broken hip because some irresponsible dickweed thought it was OK to operate a vehicle while drunk.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: DUI with accident legal advice [Re: Green_T] * 1
    #13251100 - 09/26/10 08:33 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

> I also think it may be difficult in any case to measure active chemicals.

I don't care about some arbitrary amount of active chemicals; I care about a persons ability to safely operate their vehicle.  I've known people that very good drunk drivers, but would blow an "off scale" on a breathalyzer.  I've also known people that would barely register on the breathalyzer, but have trouble keeping their car on the road.  Measure a persons ability to drive, not the amount of intoxicant in their body.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: DUI with accident legal advice [Re: Seuss]
    #13251995 - 09/27/10 12:26 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> I also think it may be difficult in any case to measure active chemicals.

I don't care about some arbitrary amount of active chemicals; I care about a persons ability to safely operate their vehicle.  I've known people that very good drunk drivers, but would blow an "off scale" on a breathalyzer.  I've also known people that would barely register on the breathalyzer, but have trouble keeping their car on the road.  Measure a persons ability to drive, not the amount of intoxicant in their body.




Makes sense. The current system is arbitrary indeed. But it would be difficult to measure inability to drive whilst impaired.

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
Re: DUI with accident legal advice [Re: Le_Canard]
    #13252378 - 09/27/10 05:13 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

> But it would be difficult to measure inability to drive whilst impaired.

That is where a jury, a standardized skills test, and video camera come in to play.


--------------------
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Anonymous #1

Re: DUI with accident legal advice [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #13253316 - 09/27/10 11:42 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
From my standpoint, driving a scooter while legally drunk is as bad as driving a car or truck while drunk. Your comment of the risk to others being much less would be of little consolation to the old lady who winds up with a broken hip because some irresponsible dickweed thought it was OK to operate a vehicle while drunk.




Take some action to rid the possiblility of irresponsible dickweeds from driving drunk.  I believe they also have a donation link.
http://www.madd.org/

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Invisiblejohnm214
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Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
Re: DUI with accident legal advice [Re: Anonymous #1]
    #13254347 - 09/27/10 03:09 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> But it would be difficult to measure inability to drive whilst impaired.

That is where a jury, a standardized skills test, and video camera come in to play.





Yep, just like any other thing in law it will come down to people making a factual determination.

Seuss's idea is a good one.

While voluntary intoxication may counsel for a harsher sentence if convicted than would simply being a shitty driver like my grandpa, I fail to see how the the reason for intoxication should effect the charge and especially not define the minimum sentence.

Quote:

Anonymous said:
Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
From my standpoint, driving a scooter while legally drunk is as bad as driving a car or truck while drunk. Your comment of the risk to others being much less would be of little consolation to the old lady who winds up with a broken hip because some irresponsible dickweed thought it was OK to operate a vehicle while drunk.




Take some action to rid the possiblility of irresponsible dickweeds from driving drunk.  I believe they also have a donation link.
http://www.madd.org/





Please back up your assertion that Madd does jack squat to help this.


From what I've seen their good at inciting fear frenzys and leading populist movements to crucify technical violations of law after the fact and extort money from the justice system and accused through untested 'classes' of dubious efficacy et cet, but I sure haven't seen how they stop people from driving drunk.

Bout the best I can say for them is they give victims of drunk driving something to do with their time and a way to redirect their rage towards the world rather than inward.

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
Re: DUI with accident legal advice [Re: johnm214]
    #13255729 - 09/27/10 07:40 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

> Bout the best I can say for them is they give victims of drunk driving something to do with their time and a way to redirect their rage towards the world rather than inward.

I'd almost rather them redirect their rage inward... I have to share their world, and deal with their rage, even when I am responsible with my driving and intoxication (as in I don't mix the two).  However, why should I not be allowed to walk down the street, or sit in a parked car, with an open container... (Actually, where I live, we have no open container laws... I can drive with a beer in my hand and not get pulled over.  Again, not something that I do, but I have the right. Freedom is nice.)


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Anonymous #1

Re: DUI with accident legal advice [Re: johnm214]
    #13258377 - 09/28/10 10:11 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

http://www.drunkard.com/md_faq.htm

Scroll down after hitting the link and the views expressed are very simular to what you posted.

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