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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Political Cartoons [Re: MagicMush123] * 2
    #27850616 - 07/05/22 03:27 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
Im sure even you dont believe all this crap




I don't consider China to be a threat to anybody. They're simply outplaying the US, because they are investing in infrastructure and their own country instead of bombing everybody else.

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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Re: Political Cartoons [Re: Kryptos]
    #27851192 - 07/05/22 09:03 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
Im sure even you dont believe all this crap




What are you referring to, specifically?

Specifically.




I mean just because the usa shits, it doesn't mean china isnt one of the most evil countries on earth.


Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
Im sure even you dont believe all this crap




I don't consider China to be a threat to anybody. They're simply outplaying the US, because they are investing in infrastructure and their own country instead of bombing everybody else.




You're free to be wrong all you want

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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Political Cartoons [Re: MagicMush123] * 1
    #27855191 - 07/08/22 06:56 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)



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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Political Cartoons [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27855232 - 07/08/22 07:44 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Wait, that's...real?  Like someone got paid for that?


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Offlinemycot
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Re: Political Cartoons [Re: Brian Jones] * 1
    #27855282 - 07/08/22 08:22 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
To us personally, they are different types of threats. We're afraid of Russian nukes, not Chinese. We're afraid China is going to just slowly swallow us.

Europe doesn't think as much about China. Europe can accept not being the top power. They're afraid of Russian expansion, and that the U.S. will lose interest in their defense.




I don't think that Russia is interested in expansion but rather trade.

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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Political Cartoons [Re: ballsalsa] * 4
    #27855308 - 07/08/22 08:41 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

It's real parody - Kelly is The Onion's fictional cartoonist, and they're spot on












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OfflineThe Ecstatic
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Re: Political Cartoons [Re: MagicMush123] * 1
    #27855769 - 07/09/22 08:49 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
Im sure even you dont believe all this crap




What are you referring to, specifically?

Specifically.




I mean just because the usa shits, it doesn't mean china isnt one of the most evil countries on earth.






In what world is “China is evil” specific?


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Political Cartoons [Re: mycot]
    #27856125 - 07/09/22 02:13 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

mycot said:
Quote:

Brian Jones said:
To us personally, they are different types of threats. We're afraid of Russian nukes, not Chinese. We're afraid China is going to just slowly swallow us.

Europe doesn't think as much about China. Europe can accept not being the top power. They're afraid of Russian expansion, and that the U.S. will lose interest in their defense.




I don't think that Russia is interested in expansion but rather trade.




Russia, as in the Russian people? almost certainly.

Russia, as in Putin? Almost certainly not. Wars always fuck up trade routes throughout history, trade depends on stability. Putin isn't stupid enough to believe that starting a war will lead to more trade.

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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Political Cartoons [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27856237 - 07/09/22 04:13 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Those are awesome! :lol: i love the little pun comments on the bottom right :datass:


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Offlinemycot
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Re: Political Cartoons [Re: Kryptos]
    #27856549 - 07/09/22 08:11 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

mycot said:
Quote:

Brian Jones said:
To us personally, they are different types of threats. We're afraid of Russian nukes, not Chinese. We're afraid China is going to just slowly swallow us.

Europe doesn't think as much about China. Europe can accept not being the top power. They're afraid of Russian expansion, and that the U.S. will lose interest in their defense.




I don't think that Russia is interested in expansion but rather trade.




Russia, as in the Russian people? almost certainly.

Russia, as in Putin? Almost certainly not. Wars always fuck up trade routes throughout history, trade depends on stability. Putin isn't stupid enough to believe that starting a war will lead to more trade.




Putin yes too in my opinion. I think he would want good trade relations with Europe because it would be good for his country in many ways.

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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Political Cartoons [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #27856603 - 07/09/22 08:39 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Those Onion cartoons remind me a lot of Al Jaffee's cartoons in Mad Magazine.

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Political Cartoons [Re: mycot]
    #27856709 - 07/09/22 09:38 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

mycot said:
Quote:

Kryptos said:
Quote:

mycot said:
Quote:

Brian Jones said:
To us personally, they are different types of threats. We're afraid of Russian nukes, not Chinese. We're afraid China is going to just slowly swallow us.

Europe doesn't think as much about China. Europe can accept not being the top power. They're afraid of Russian expansion, and that the U.S. will lose interest in their defense.




I don't think that Russia is interested in expansion but rather trade.




Russia, as in the Russian people? almost certainly.

Russia, as in Putin? Almost certainly not. Wars always fuck up trade routes throughout history, trade depends on stability. Putin isn't stupid enough to believe that starting a war will lead to more trade.




Putin yes too in my opinion. I think he would want good trade relations with Europe because it would be good for his country in many ways.




Then he wouldn't have started a war.

Putin is interested in expansion.

China is a good example of expanding trade and economic links, Putin could have done the same. Pick the countries that the US is not interested in, and start funding them. Instead, he started a war.

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Offlinemycot
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Re: Political Cartoons [Re: Kryptos] * 2
    #27856840 - 07/10/22 12:35 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Then he wouldn't have started a war.

Putin is interested in expansion.

China is a good example of expanding trade and economic links, Putin could have done the same. Pick the countries that the US is not interested in, and start funding them. Instead, he started a war.




If Putin was interested in expansion then he would have shown that long before now.
More reasonably, war was started for security concerns. And sanctions haven't helped.

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Political Cartoons [Re: mycot] * 3
    #27856856 - 07/10/22 01:20 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

He did. In 2014.

Putin took power in 2000 as the head of a crumbling nation that had recently been demolished by the Cold War, and had, since then, been ruled by an ineffective leader who was widely (and probably not accurately) considered to be a drunk. Between 2000 and 2010, Putin presided over the expansion of Russian fossil fuel resources. Part of this money went to the people, but the majority of it was taken by the oligarchs that propped up Putin's regime. At the end of the decade, Russian fossil fuels had become less cost competitive, and the cracks were starting to show in the system. So Putin went onto stage two of his plan, which was expansion. In 2014 he annexed Crimea to test the response of the West. The West did not respond with a unified front, as we were, at the time, dealing with hysteria over Ebola and Swine Flu.

Next, the election of Trump further drove a wedge between the US and Europe. This meant that we were even less likely to put up a unified response, and so Putin put together with plans for further expansion. Unfortunately for Putin, Trump was incompetent to the point of losing to Biden. However, the cards were already on the table, and so Putin continued with his plan for expansion. The "patriotic education" had been in place for almost half a decade at this point. The populace was prepared to go to war. Young people had been primed to join the army. War needed to happen, or he would have unrest.

Unfortunately for Putin, Biden was able to unify the Western world against him. And now Putin is stuck in a quagmire of his own making. He needs to be able to save face, and for that to happen, he needs to seize at least a portion of Ukraine to be able to declare victory. That's what he is currently doing.

At this point, Putin needs to run out the clock until 2024, at which point there is a not insignificant chance that the GOP takes control of the presidency once again, and almost certainly cuts off Ukraine. This allows him to continue his expansion relatively unopposed. Of course, by this time, European nations will likely be able to take over the defense of Ukraine.

Prior to Putin's annexation of Crimea in 2014, there were no sanctions. And Russia still doesn't have any "security concerns". Putin has personal "security concerns", because the good times of 2000-2010 have ended, and the oligarchs took the money that he should have invested in infrastructure and trade.

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Offlinemycot
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Re: Political Cartoons [Re: Rono] * 1
    #27856880 - 07/10/22 02:07 AM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Kryptos said:
He did. In 2014.

Putin took power in 2000 as the head of a crumbling nation that had recently been demolished by the Cold War, and had, since then, been ruled by an ineffective leader who was widely (and probably not accurately) considered to be a drunk. Between 2000 and 2010, Putin presided over the expansion of Russian fossil fuel resources. Part of this money went to the people, but the majority of it was taken by the oligarchs that propped up Putin's regime. At the end of the decade, Russian fossil fuels had become less cost competitive, and the cracks were starting to show in the system. So Putin went onto stage two of his plan, which was expansion. In 2014 he annexed Crimea to test the response of the West. The West did not respond with a unified front, as we were, at the time, dealing with hysteria over Ebola and Swine Flu.




Crimea was a complex situation involving what went down in that year.

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Next, the election of Trump further drove a wedge between the US and Europe. This meant that we were even less likely to put up a unified response, and so Putin put together with plans for further expansion. Unfortunately for Putin, Trump was incompetent to the point of losing to Biden. However, the cards were already on the table, and so Putin continued with his plan for expansion. The "patriotic education" had been in place for almost half a decade at this point. The populace was prepared to go to war. Young people had been primed to join the army. War needed to happen, or he would have unrest.




I see little evidence for much of this.

Quote:

Kryptos said:
Unfortunately for Putin, Biden was able to unify the Western world against him. And now Putin is stuck in a quagmire of his own making. He needs to be able to save face, and for that to happen, he needs to seize at least a portion of Ukraine to be able to declare victory. That's what he is currently doing.

At this point, Putin needs to run out the clock until 2024, at which point there is a not insignificant chance that the GOP takes control of the presidency once again, and almost certainly cuts off Ukraine. This allows him to continue his expansion relatively unopposed. Of course, by this time, European nations will likely be able to take over the defense of Ukraine.

Prior to Putin's annexation of Crimea in 2014, there were no sanctions. And Russia still doesn't have any "security concerns". Putin has personal "security concerns", because the good times of 2000-2010 have ended, and the oligarchs took the money that he should have invested in infrastructure and trade.




This is all an interesting historical take and narrative, although one I do not accept.
There are indeed a number of competing narratives and the situation is complex.
Security concerns were in reference to Russian state and people.
This discussion more properly belongs in Ukraine war thread.
And we may have to agree to disagree.

Edited by mycot (07/10/22 03:36 AM)

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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Political Cartoons [Re: mycot] * 2
    #27857339 - 07/10/22 01:01 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

You seem to believe that wars lead to trade and fewer sanctions, so yes, you will have to "agree to disagree", because you are wrong.

And yes the situations is "complex", because the evidence does not fit your narrative.

On the other hand, if you look at it from the point of view of attempted expansion through military conquest, it's not complex at all.

Putin just recently gave a speech comparing himself to Peter the Great. You know what Peter the Great did? He conquered his way to the Baltic Sea.

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Offlinemycot
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Re: Political Cartoons [Re: Rono] * 1
    #27857593 - 07/10/22 04:24 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Your very first sentence is incorrect as I do not believe that at all in the least.
On the contrary I believe that trade is a better option than war.

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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: Political Cartoons [Re: Kryptos]
    #27857765 - 07/10/22 06:10 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

It should be noted that Petey-boy kicked Swedish ass in a time when the Swedish summer sport was absolutely fucking Russians up.  He was an impressive dude who wasn't too proud to learn things from elsewhere and apply them at home


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Political Cartoons [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #27857819 - 07/10/22 07:00 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Those Onion cartoons.. outraged political cartoon vitriol over absolutekly nothing at all, loving it


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OfflineKryptos
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Re: Political Cartoons [Re: ballsalsa]
    #27857821 - 07/10/22 07:02 PM (1 year, 11 months ago)

Oh, I fully recognize Peter the Great as being a great ruler. He did a lot to modernize Russia at the time, as he did, as the saying goes, "chop a window to Europe".

The difference is that Russia, before Peter the Great, had no trade with Europe and no ability to trade with Europe due to a lack of ports that weren't frozen six months out of the year. And a bunch of dumbass orthodox customs that caused massive problems.

Putin, on the other hand, invoked his name for one reason: conquest. Putin is doing the opposite of everything else that Peter the Great did, including leaning hard into the orthodox church.

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