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OfflineCrapula
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Bush Increasing Religious Allusions
    #1320780 - 02/20/03 01:44 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Bush Increasing Religious Allusions

WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Bush, often portrayed as using a strict good-and-evil compass to navigate national issues, has always peppered his speeches with exhortations to moral and civic duty. With war, tragedy and terrorism confronting him now, his allusions to spirituality and morality seem to be increasing.

"I welcome faith to help solve the nation's deepest problems," Bush told a convention of religious broadcasters last week. Referring to the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, he said, "We carried our grief to the Lord Almighty in prayer."

Earlier, in his State of the Union address, he said, "The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity."

Hours after the shuttle Columbia disintegrated, Bush turned to religion and a quote from the book of Isaiah to help console the nation.

"The same Creator who names the stars also knows the names of the seven souls we mourn today. The crew of the shuttle Columbia did not return safely to Earth; yet we can pray that all are safely home," the president said.

Expressions of faith and values are familiar ground for American presidents, and this one, who became a born-again Christian in the 1980s after concluding he was drinking too much, is no exception. Yet lately, Bush has gone beyond his usual broad remarks on the power of faith in general to use language and ideas specific to Christianity.

It is a welcome message for some, particularly the evangelical Christian conservatives whom Bush is courting as he seeks a second term. Some others are uncomfortable.

"This president is using general references and, beyond that, terminology and vocabulary that come straight out of a very particular religious tradition, which is evangelical Christianity," said the Rev. C. Welton Gaddy, a Louisiana pastor and executive director of the Interfaith Alliance Foundation, an umbrella interfaith group.

"I think his rhetoric implies a lack of appreciation for the vast pluralism of religion in this nation," Gaddy said.

Barry Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, said Bush speeches have started sounding "more and more like a sermon in a church" and risk alienating significant chunks of his constituency.

"When presidents start to become theologians on a regular basis, they begin to exclude people from their audience," Lynn said.

White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said Bush is comfortable speaking about religion because of its importance to him personally.

"The president when he speaks, speaks in a very inclusive way, very respectful ... of the fact that we are a nation whose great strengths come from the fact that we have people of so many faiths and people who have chosen not to have any particular religious affiliation," Fleischer said.

In his State of the Union address, Bush reflected on the challenges facing the nation as it prepares for possible war:

"We Americans have faith in ourselves, but not in ourselves alone. We do not claim to know all the ways of providence, yet we can trust in them, placing our confidence in the loving God behind all of life and all of history. May he guide us now, and may God continue to bless the United States of America."

In Nashville, Bush praised Americans' "deep and diverse religious beliefs." But he also singled out a special place for Christianity, calling the gospel that the broadcasters share over the airwaves "words of truth."

More generally, the president has delivered several passion-filled speeches recently on behalf of his proposal to spend billions more to combat AIDS abroad. In Grand Rapids, Mich., the day after his State of the Union address, Bush said the humanitarian crisis is a chance "a moral nation" cannot pass up to use its riches and know-how for good.




This guy gets more scary by the day....


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: Crapula]
    #1320809 - 02/20/03 02:15 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

It's true. Click the .wav button to hear Bush practicing the speech he will give to the world when he officially declares war.



Creepy huh?





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OfflineEllis Dee
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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: Learyfan]
    #1321456 - 02/20/03 08:40 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Reminds me of Pulp Fiction. :smirk:


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,


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Anonymous

Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: Crapula]
    #1321468 - 02/20/03 08:46 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Why does this matter to you at all?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: Anonymous]
    #1321478 - 02/20/03 08:51 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

It won't bother me until he starts using religion as an excuse for war.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: silversoul7]
    #1321481 - 02/20/03 08:52 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

We'll be waiting a while before that happens. A long while.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: Anonymous]
    #1321483 - 02/20/03 08:53 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I sure hope so. Let's just hope John Ashcroft doesn't become any more influential than he already is.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: Anonymous]
    #1321675 - 02/20/03 10:16 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Why does this matter to you at all?

Because the country elected a president not a minister.


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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Offlineflow
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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: Skikid16]
    #1321908 - 02/20/03 11:29 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Why does this matter to you at all?

Because the country elected a president not a minister.



the country elected a born again christian president, what do you think his speeches are going to be about?


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: flow]
    #1321971 - 02/20/03 11:44 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Obviously Religion should have no place in Politics, but the sad fact is that it plays a huge factor. I.E....what do you think the chances are of a Muslim or Hindu president?.


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: flow]
    #1322144 - 02/20/03 01:04 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

The president was also cocaine user, why aren't any of his speeches about that?

Keep your personal life out of Public Affairs.......


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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Anonymous

Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: Skikid16]
    #1322285 - 02/20/03 02:05 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

The country elected a Christian to office, and if he wants to put religious symbolism and whatnot in his speeches, I really don't care. Religion has a place in all of our lives, whether or not we like to admit, and is a big part of politics. And, to my knowledge, Bush hasn't said much or anything about Jesus, his personal God.

Of course, none of this matters, because some people here will bitch about Bush no matter what he does.


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OfflineSkikid16
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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: Anonymous]
    #1322395 - 02/20/03 02:55 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Oh, believe me, his christian references are the least of my concerns, I couldn't give a flying fuck who he prays to. I'm just saying it should be a part of his speeches when they are speeches concerning public policy.


And religion does not have a place in my life.


If Bush repeals the Patriot Act, and settles down on his drive for war, I will commend him, not bitch. But until he does anything worthy of praise, he will get bitching.


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Re-Defeat Bush in '04


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OfflineCrapula
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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: Anonymous]
    #1322590 - 02/20/03 04:14 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

hmmm....why do I care? I just find it pretty scary (Jerry Falwell scary) that he's been talking more and more about god in his speeches. I have personally noticed this before this article even came out. I think he is highly delusional if he thinks god cares about America or is looking out for America in any way above any other country. Albeit an extreme example...we think the terrorists are nutty as hell because of what they do in the name of their god and religion. So whose side is god on...Christian or Muslim??? What if there is no god?? If there is a god...would he/she want us running around killing each other in his/her name?? Who knows? It's just very silly, in my opinion, to bring up god and religion in government. The need of having separation of church and state was our forefathers opinion as well.

On a side note..no I don't really give a rats ass what he or anyone believes in on their own time, that's their business.


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Anonymous

Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: Skikid16]
    #1322605 - 02/20/03 04:19 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Religion is the foundation of society as we know it. This debate has be run over a few times in S&P I believe, so I won't go into it. The fact is, the guy can say whatever he damn well pleases. You know, the president is protected by the First Amendment too.

Nush has done many things I feel are praisworthy, including tax cuts and pay raises for our soldiers. But he is a Republican, and thus probably will never get praise from you.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: Anonymous]
    #1322671 - 02/20/03 04:39 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

There are a few Republicans(albeit very few) whom I find to be praiseworthy. John McCain comes to mind. Also, who was that governor of Arizona that wanted to legalize weed? Also, Tom Campbell(from my own state) seems to have a good head on his shoulders. Until recently I respected Colin Powell(I lost that respect for him when he bent to the pressure of his compatriates to push for war with Iraq). Don't assume that as liberals we automatically hate all Republicans.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Edited by silversoul7 (02/20/03 04:40 PM)


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Anonymous

Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: silversoul7]
    #1322678 - 02/20/03 04:42 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

McCain is the Republican I hate the most. Not a respectable guy at all.


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OfflineCrapula
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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: Anonymous]
    #1322681 - 02/20/03 04:42 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Religious beliefs have been the reason behind many if not most of the wars that have been fought on this globe. Pretty much millions upon millions of death's over whose god has the biggest dick. Religion maybe the foundation of society as we know it, but it may also be its downfall.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: Anonymous]
    #1322685 - 02/20/03 04:45 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

McCain is the Republican I hate the most. Not a respectable guy at all.



And why is that? Not enough of a warmonger?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: silversoul7]
    #1322712 - 02/20/03 04:55 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Actually I thought he was OK until he started pushing for his "gunshow loophole" bill. He did a complete 180 in his stance on guns right at the time he lost the primaries to Bush. And when the 9/11 attacks occured, he used the instance to shamelessly promote this bill, saying terrorists can get guns at gun shows and such. This is the kind of shit I'd expect from a Democrat.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: silversoul7]
    #1322789 - 02/20/03 05:30 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Are you referring to New Mexico Governor Gary Johnson?


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Don't vibe my harsh, bro.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1322798 - 02/20/03 05:33 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Yes. Thank you. I meant New Mexico.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: Crapula]
    #1323002 - 02/20/03 06:41 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Seperation of church and state, who needs it. We're going to have a faith based precedent er, initiative real soon. Religious allusions by a sitting president aren't to uncommon. Actually doing something that could blur the lines between the two instistutions is uncommon. This is scary. No one in D.C. seems to mind that President Bush suggested this faith based initiative, this is scary. On the surface it sound harmless enough, giving money to religious based community groups, but the referee inside my head keeps saying foul direct violation of church and state. Maybe someone can explain why it isn't, I just don't see it.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: falcon]
    #1323478 - 02/20/03 11:43 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Seperation of church and state, who needs it.



Actually, anyone with the most basic of comprehension skills can see there is no separation of church and state as is so commonly tossed around. Here is the related section of the first ammendment:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; "

In simple terms for the simple.....
Government can't promote or start (establish) a religion, nor can it impede or end (prohibit) a religion.

Now if they, for example, said they were going to give 100,000,000 to the moonies but no other religions, or if they were to declare The Church Of Latter Day Saints as the "official" religion, or say they banned the Lutherans, then they would be in violation. The difference is they are "spreading" the bucks around to many.

Still an improper use of government funds in my opinion.





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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinefalcon
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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1323583 - 02/21/03 02:40 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Yes but the money is coming with conditions on how it will be spent. This by itself,I think, is too much legislated influence. I agree that the seperation of church and state is not even possible, people bring they're ideoligies with them to government.


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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1323584 - 02/21/03 02:42 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Yes but the money is coming with conditions on how it will be spent. This by itself,I think, is too much legislated influence. I agree that the seperation of church and state is not even possible, people bring they're ideologies with them to government.


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Offlinesirreal
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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: Crapula]
    #1323622 - 02/21/03 03:23 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

It does not really matter if bush quotes a few passages from the bible. He has obviously never read it. if he had read it he would not be pushing for this war. Read the teachings of christ and tell me if you see any of this in it!

Those of you who claim to be christian and support our government are hypocrites! I know what the church teaches and I know what Jesus taught. They are not the same thing in most instances. Try, if you can, to understand what the man you claim to follow had to say about what is going on in this world.

Wether he was God or man does not matter to me. If you claim to follow him, read what he had to say. The world would be a better place. For everyone.


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I see what everyone is saying. It is so hard to form an opinion when you see both sides so clearly!


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: sirreal]
    #1324538 - 02/21/03 11:29 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Those of you who claim to be christian and support our government are hypocrites! I know what the church teaches and I know what Jesus taught.



So.... dems who support abortion are not hypocrites? (I'm not saying you said that, just asking) How about giving birth control to kids? (Again... just asking)


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1324554 - 02/21/03 11:33 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Well, to be fair, abortion isn't mentioned in the Bible. And birth control didn't even exist when it was written.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Edited by silversoul7 (02/21/03 11:33 AM)


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: silversoul7]
    #1324558 - 02/21/03 11:35 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Ok then, how about homosexuality?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1324562 - 02/21/03 11:36 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Fair enough.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: silversoul7]
    #1324572 - 02/21/03 11:41 AM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

And birth control didn't even exist when it was written.



Really?


The oldest illustration of a condom was found in Egypt and dates back more than 3,000 years. It is difficult to judge from the drawing what the ancient Egyptian wearing the condom had in mind. He may have worn it for sexual or ritual reasons?or both. Some claim that, in later times, the Romans made condoms from the muscle tissue of warriors they defeated in battle.

(url)http://www.plannedparenthood.org/articles/condomhistory.html(/url)
I wasn't aware of this until now. Your post made me curious.

And what of the old "pull it out" method? And I think anal and oral sex can be considered birth control.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (02/21/03 11:42 AM)


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Offlinepimpadelic
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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1324720 - 02/21/03 12:58 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I have one question for Mister George Bush Jr.. What Would Jesus Do???


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: pimpadelic]
    #1324733 - 02/21/03 01:03 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

Who cares?


Edit...

He's not a Jr.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (02/21/03 01:04 PM)


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: pimpadelic]
    #1324735 - 02/21/03 01:05 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

They justify violence by using saying that Jesus chased people away with a whip or something.

luvthemshrooms:
Quote:

Some claim that, in later times, the Romans made condoms from the muscle tissue of warriors they defeated in battle.




That's the ulitmate insult. You kill a guy and fuck somebody with their muscle tissue. Well.....I guess fucking his mother with the muscle tissue would be the ultimate insult.



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Mp3 of the month:  Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish



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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Bush Increasing Religious Allusions [Re: Learyfan]
    #1324739 - 02/21/03 01:06 PM (18 years, 9 months ago)

I didn't say it. Sorry forgot he link. Having too much fun now but it was on the planned parenthood site.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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