Does excess nitrogen 'burn' mycelium? - Advanced Mycology

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lipa

Registered: 07/24/07
Posts: 2,684

Re: Does excess nitrogen 'burn' mycelium?

[Re: pinophile]
#13195341 - 09/14/10 05:02 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I am curious as to why you keep mentioning "Rice Hulls"?

Lipa

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pinophile
Cubensis Inquisitor

Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 195
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months

Re: Does excess nitrogen 'burn' mycelium?

[Re: lipa]
#13195421 - 09/14/10 05:20 PM (13 years, 7 months ago)

i mean to type rice bran, but I have rice hulls on the brain. I have been testing them for making soilless media for horticultural applications. Oh yea, btw, rice hulls (parboiled) suck for cubensis mycelium. I mixed in 10% and 20% parboiled rice hulls to my rye and my WBS spawn before PC'ing. The rice hulls get covered with mold when moist in soil so I thought it might be worthwhile to try it.

The mycelium colonized all the grain but not the rice hulls, the mycelium was not rhizomorphic when normally it is from this clone on rye or WBS; the mycelium was more tomentose. Maybe it's the silica or maybe the rice hulls dried out too much, whatever the reason the rice hulls preformed very poorly. Once I spawned the WBS and rice hulls to bulk the mycelium took off and became rhizomorphic.

I may try them again just to verify that the poor growth is from the rice hulls.

--------------------
What does a ninja drink? WHA-TAH!

"The important thing is not to stop questioning..." Albert Einstein

"What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world remains and is immortal" Albert Pike

Edited by pinophile (09/14/10 05:23 PM)

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pinophile
Cubensis Inquisitor

Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 195
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months

Re: Does excess nitrogen 'burn' mycelium?

[Re: pinophile]
#13198489 - 09/15/10 09:58 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

some more good references, some are older and i assume people have read them before, but for those that havent i thought it best to provide them; some with commentary by me.

Btw, who the hell is Daniel J. Royse!?! I think he is a professor at Penn State and he has authored and/or co-authored at least 10 of the papers I have posted in this thread! Talk about a mushroom geek and prolific researcher and author! lolz

If enough people here want these papers maybe i can upload them somewhere

Inorganic (ionic; N rich) supplements:

Influence of ammonium nitrate and organic supplements on the yield of Pleurotus sajor caju (Fr.) sing
F. Zadražil
Applied Microbiology and Biotechnology, Volume 9, Number 1, 31-35 (1980)

Protein Content of Shiitake Mushroom Grown on Nitrogen Soaked Sweetgum Logs
N.A. Sistani, D.T. Balla, C. Sabot
Journal of Plant Nutrition, Volume 30, Issue 8, pp. 1279-1286 (Aug., 2007)

Timing, Rate, Nutrient and Poultry Litter supplementation to Maximize Shiitake Mushroom Production
Project director: C. Sabota and C. Beyl
Plant & Soil Sciences, Alabama A&M University

Enhancement of biomass production of edible mushroom Pleurotus sajor-caju grown in whey by plant growth hormones
Rupak Mukhopadhyay, Sandipan Chatterjee, Bishnu P. Chatterjee and Arun K. Guha
Process Biochemistry, Volume 40, Issues 3-4, pp. 1241-1244 (March, 2005)

(^^^ this paper is interesting, the reaserachers use diammonium hydrogen phosphate and PGRs (Plant Growth Regulators) such as IAA, GA3 and Kinitn (a synthetic cytokinin). IAA has been found to have synergistic effects upon some fungi mycelial growth and mushroom yield when co-applied with brassinosteroids (not referenced below but i have references). Cytokinins are considered to be FGR (Fungal Growth Regulators) for some edible fungi, and kinitin is a synthetic form of cytokinin. IAA (indole-3-acetic acid) showed the most benefit in this study. I have other studies showing IAA's benefits for some fungi, and brassinosteroids too (not the old Gartz studies).)

Uptake of heavy metals by Azolla pinnata and their translocation into the fruit bodies of Pleurotus sajor-caju
Satynder K. Jain, Gurbinder S. Gujral, Padma Vasudevan and Narendara K. Jha
Journal of Fermentation and Bioengineering, Volume 68, Issue 1, Pages 64-67 (1989)

Heavy metal uptake by Pleurotus sajor-caju from metal-enriched duckweed substrate
S.K. Jaina, G. S. Gujrala, N.K. Jhab and P. Vasudevan
Biological Wastes, Volume 24, Issue 4, Pages 275-282 (1988)

The translocation of mercury and cadmium into the fruiting bodies of six higher fungi
H. Brunnert and F. Zadražil
Applied Microbiology and Biotechnology, Volume 17, Number 6, 358-364 (1983)

Organic (protein-N rich) supplements (not OMRI or NOP; not "organic" as in "organic horticulture"):

Effect of Organic Nitrogen Supplementation of Pleurotus Species
R.C. Upadhyay, R.N. Verma, S.K. Singh and M.C. Yadav
Mushroom Biology and Mushroom Products, Sanchez et al. (eds). 2002 UAEM. ISBN 968-878-105-3

Yield and size of Pleurotus ostreatus and Pleurotus sajor-caju as effected by delayed-release nutrient
Daniel J. Royse and Lee C. Schisler
Applied Microbiology and Biotechnology, Volume 26, Number 2, pp. 191-194 (1987)

The effect of alfalfa hay and delayed-release nutrient on biological efficiency of Pleurotus sajor-caju.
Daniel J. Royse, and B. D. Bahler
Mush. J. Tropics 8:59-65. (1988)

Influence of formaldehyde-treated soybean and commercial nutrient supplementation on mushroom (Pleurotus sajor-caju) yield and in-vitro dry matter digestibility of spent substrate
Daniel J. Royse, S. L. Fales and K. Karunanandaa
Applied Microbiology and Biotechnology, Volume 36, Number 3, 425-429 (1991)

Influence of spawn rate and commercial delayed release nutrient levels on Pleurotus cornucopiae (oyster mushroom) yield, size, and time to production
Daniel J. Royse
Applied Microbiology and Biotechnology, Volume 58, Number 4. (2002)

Yield, mushroom size and time to production of Pleurotus cornucopiae (oyster mushroom) grown on switch grass substrate spawned and supplemented at various rates
Daniel J. Royse, T.W. Rhodes, S. Ohga and J.E. Sanchez
Bioresource Technology, Volume 91, Issue 1, Pages 85-91 (January, 2004)

Edited by pinophile (09/15/10 10:39 AM)

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anonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322

Re: Does excess nitrogen 'burn' mycelium?

[Re: pinophile]
#13198889 - 09/15/10 11:38 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

So it seems you are suggesting that yes, excess nitrogen will inhibit growth.

Can you think of a reason why pasteurizing rather than sterilizing would alleviate the problem?

--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.

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pinophile
Cubensis Inquisitor

Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 195
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months

Re: Does excess nitrogen 'burn' mycelium?

[Re: anonjon]
#13208683 - 09/17/10 09:29 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

anonjon said:
So it seems you are suggesting that yes, excess nitrogen will inhibit growth.

Can you think of a reason why pasteurizing rather than sterilizing would alleviate the problem?

I just noticed your questions, sorry!

Yes, excess N can/does inhibit growth. The only thing I can think of is during sterilization their might be some heat associated chemical reactions which make it less hospitable than pasteurized subs with the same sub.

FWIW, here are some pics of my bulk (1:5 spawn:bulk) after 3 days post spawing to bulk. The sub is cocogrow coir (from botanicare) to which I add (by dry weight of coco) 3% calcitic lime, 3% gypsum, 3% azomite and 4% Pro Mycel Gold (a professional delayed release mushroom supplement/nutrient). The water I use to hydrate the coir I added 0.1 ppm brassinolide which is a natural from of the brassinosteroid Gartz used for cubes; brassinolide is a FGR (fungal growth regulator) according to many studies and my personal experiences over the past year or two.

The N level in my sub is most probably higher than the N level in your sub in your first post. And you can see below that the mcyelium is not burnt or hindered one bit, the mycelium is helped, probably because the N and other nutrients (from Pro Mycel Gold) are delayed release vs. your use of bat guano (which is high in nitrates as ions and also high in non-delayed released organic N).

Here is a thread I wrote yesterday which offers more info, I'm surprised I got zero comments from shroomerites considering, AFAIK, what I am doing no one here (or at other fungi forums) has done before (mixing professional mush nutrients/supplement and brassinolide). I have gotten a few emails and PMs from that thread, but no posts in the forum :shrug:

"Look-see: sub colonization after only 3 days: Brassinosteroids and mush nutrients"
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/13205415

( I use a 2" piece of 1/2" PCV in which I stuff polyfill as the filter for the bags (see pics below); this is my DIY version of filter patch bags. Using the glove box and bags I reduce chance of contaims and I still get GE.)

Edited by pinophile (09/17/10 09:38 AM)

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anonjon
Partially Right

Registered: 11/03/08
Posts: 6,322

Re: Does excess nitrogen 'burn' mycelium?

[Re: pinophile]
#13208732 - 09/17/10 09:51 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Well the other side of the experiment is approaching fruition and it appears I was wrong, the pasteurized substrate does have the same inhibition zone. Doesn't seem to be as much, but it's clear as day.

--------------------
The above post is fictional, hypothetical, or downright nonsensical.

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pinophile
Cubensis Inquisitor

Registered: 09/09/10
Posts: 195
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months

Re: Does excess nitrogen 'burn' mycelium?

[Re: anonjon]
#13208739 - 09/17/10 09:54 AM (13 years, 6 months ago)

Sorry to hear that. If you like, pm me and I can see about sending you some Pro Mycel Gold (maybe a ounce or two; I have like 45 pounds) for free to test if you like. It's much better than using guano, etc.

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