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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
More Nealisms...
    #1317692 - 02/18/03 08:37 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

GOD:
Act as if you are, and you will draw it to you.
What you act as if you are, you become.


Umm, how does one act "as if" one is making love to a beautiful woman? Porno? Masturbation? Rape? Blow-up doll? In my limited observation, internal sexual fantasy keeps one from meeting real potential partners rather than actualizing.

To any Walsh fans, I truly want to see one of you act "as if" you were a world-class weight-lifter and deadlift 800 pounds. Or pick some other out-of-the-ordinary example then demonstrate it.

Words are cheap - well $12.95 anyways...


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSmack31
Stranger

Registered: 06/17/02
Posts: 10,680
Re: More Nealisms... [Re: Swami]
    #1317712 - 02/18/03 08:54 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

maybe try applying it to something slightly less-physical.


and in defense of the statement given, it never made any claims of instant gratification... act as if you are a world-class weight lifter: practice the discipline and routine with all your *cough* soul * :wink: * and being... with the dedication you will become.     


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: More Nealisms... [Re: Smack31]
    #1318119 - 02/19/03 03:20 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Practice is a NEW and METAPHYSICAL method for bringing about a result? Me no think so.

Despite claims of spiritual understanding and growth, most people are desirous of achieving something in the physical plane - job, health, lover, money, etc.

How about you give an example that can be measured.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


Edited by Swami (02/19/03 03:24 AM)


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InvisibleRevelation

 User Gallery

Registered: 08/04/01
Posts: 6,130
Loc: heart cave
Re: More Nealisms... [Re: Swami]
    #1318124 - 02/19/03 03:24 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I agree with what smack said. The statement doesn't say anything about being able to do things instantly. Surely all people who have ever lifted a heavy weight were acting "as if" they could lift the weight.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: More Nealisms... [Re: Revelation]
    #1318130 - 02/19/03 03:31 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Once again, how is this something new and mysterious? Where does it say that it is not instantaneous? Does faith have a timeline?

That reminds me of a Christian friend of mine who hurt his back (pulled a muscle moving) and was out of bed four days later through the "power of prayer". Of course, his body would have healed naturally in that time frame without petitioning any deity, but that takes all the "fun" out of mythology.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: More Nealisms... [Re: Swami]
    #1318155 - 02/19/03 04:00 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Swami: Does faith have a timeline?

Why, yes, Swami... faith DOES have a timeline. And for a limited time, through this special Shroomery offer...


bah!


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineGazzBut
Refraction

Registered: 10/15/02
Posts: 4,733
Loc: London UK
Last seen: 4 months, 4 days
Re: More Nealisms... [Re: Swami]
    #1318207 - 02/19/03 04:58 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Believe you are attractive to the women you desire, then act like you beleive it maybe?


--------------------
Always Smi2le


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: More Nealisms... [Re: Swami]
    #1318212 - 02/19/03 05:10 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Of course, his body would have healed naturally in that time frame without petitioning any deity, but that takes all the "fun" out of mythology.

Why awaken those that are sleepwalking through a world of myth? Let them delude themselves. They live in a world of their choosing.


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Anonymous

Re: More Nealisms... [Re: Swami]
    #1318286 - 02/19/03 06:03 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Put it into a more spiritual context... For example, you yell at someone and make them feel like shit. Deep inside you didn't want to yell and you didn't want to hurt the other person, but you let your anger and hate grab hold of you. If you know deep inside this is not how you want to be, you can change it, and become the person who you really are and want to be. So, if I act like a good person, then i will become one. All hes saying is nothing should hold you back from becoming the person you want to be.



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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: More Nealisms... [Re: ]
    #1318334 - 02/19/03 06:27 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

How many "Nealists" here wish they had more money? If you TRULY believed in the books as something other than mind candy, you would immediately cash out your meager savings account and give it away to street people to show the universe that you are acting "as if" wealth flowed easily to and from you.

Naturally, like EVERY other Swami Challenge, NOT ONE person will do this.

Many people have asked in PMs why I rarely post anymore, it is because of the All Show and No Go nature of many of the posts. As I have stated many times, even the believers do not really believe.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSmack31
Stranger

Registered: 06/17/02
Posts: 10,680
Re: More Nealisms... [Re: Swami]
    #1318585 - 02/19/03 07:46 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Practice is a NEW and METAPHYSICAL method for bringing about a result?




No, but if he can set the pitch up right and appeal to your needs, he might sell you a book or two. Anyone with experience and a little smarts knows that if you want something you have to work at it. But a lot of people don't put themselves into the roles they need to be in to gain what they desire. Instead they go out and buy a book. Nothing wrong with spending some $ to expand on an idea or concept, but if you don't apply it in the real world you are just paying somebody to help you live in a fatansy.

Buying a book won't fix anything for you, but there is always a chance that it could put you in the frame of mind you need to be in to get where you are going.



so going back to the original statement that this thread started on... you either know how and where to apply it, or you don't. tossing an idea out is no better than thinking it is the answer to everything. play with it and make it work for you. and if that doesn't help, put it in a file somewhere. you might figure out what to do with it later.



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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,849
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 15 days, 2 hours
Re: More Nealisms... [Re: Smack31]
    #1318732 - 02/19/03 08:26 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Obviously, you can't believe you can get everything you want and actually get it without working on getting it. But you can't really work at getting something without believing you could get it, either. Don't look at all of this from only one of these two things, look at it from both. You need the spark before you can build a fire. right?


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: More Nealisms... [Re: Revelation]
    #1318776 - 02/19/03 08:41 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Surely all people who have ever lifted a heavy weight were acting "as if" they could lift the weight.

If ALL PEOPLE automatically did this, what is the point of this Nealism?

Of course, Walsch himself, actually pulled this one off by writing a book "as if" he were actually talking to God and sold it to many readers "as if" the underlying premise were true. But duping people is not really the concept behind this Nealism.


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/99
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Re: More Nealisms... [Re: Smack31]
    #1319185 - 02/19/03 12:03 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Smack31: you either know how and where to apply it, or you don't.
Ah... an age-old problem.
You either know how to use "it" or you don't.  The problem is that you can't teach people how to interpret things correctly.  Oh, it can be learned alright... but it can't be taught.

Is that not clear?
Okay... pick up a copy of Plato's Protagoras.  Socrates argues over "virtues" with Protagoras, a sophist.  He comes to the same conclusion (and a few others)---> Virtue cannot be taught, only learned.

This is why rituals exist... they're there to help steer us into the right frame of mind... a frame of mind that the "enlightened" masters/prophets/teachers/whatevers experienced.  Wouldn't it be great if rituals worked for 100% of the people, 100% of the time?  Well, they don't.  They work for some and not for others... and there is no way of knowing for sure who "gets it" and who doesn't.

Going back to the topic...
So what happens when people take what Neal says literally?
Oh... you don't think that could (or does) happen?  Think again.

Ambiguity can only be properly interpreted (almost everytime) by those who already understand it.  Sure, maybe everyone in this thread knows Neal was being metaphorical, but that interpretation wasn't written... it was between the lines.  When you write something that has to be paired up with such an interpretation, you better make the metaphor so unrealistic that people can only understand it as a metaphor and can't take it literally.  You know... like "walking on water"... no one could ever take that literally, right?

:wink: 


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSmack31
Stranger

Registered: 06/17/02
Posts: 10,680
Re: More Nealisms... [Re: Sclorch]
    #1320015 - 02/19/03 05:25 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Ah... an age-old problem.
You either know how to use "it" or you don't. The problem is that you can't teach people how to interpret things correctly. Oh, it can be learned alright... but it can't be taught.


indeed.


kind of like being an artist. you learn a basic form or structure, but then it's up to you to take it somewhere creative.


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Re: More Nealisms... [Re: Smack31]
    #1320509 - 02/19/03 08:39 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

The difference between a craftsman and an artist is greater than most think it is.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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InvisibleSmack31
Stranger

Registered: 06/17/02
Posts: 10,680
Re: More Nealisms... [Re: Sclorch]
    #1320527 - 02/19/03 08:56 PM (13 years, 9 months ago)

explain...


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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
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Re: More Nealisms... [Re: Smack31]
    #1321613 - 02/20/03 09:52 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

Well... both possess skill, but the artist is very interested in conveying a message or feeling. It's a working duality with lots of gray area. It's a duality that parallels idealism vs. strict practicality (no, this is not pragmatism, though often called such). Though I'll admit that aesthetics are relative... to me, the relativity of aesthetics is similar to the intelligence spectrum. Some people are just smarter than others... there are Einsteins and there are Forrest Gumps.

A perfect example: Leonardo da Vinci versus that housewife at the end of your block that sells arts & crafts to other suburban moms. She painted a "real special" miniature Mona Lisa for her Lizzie da Vinci (part of her "artist doll" series).


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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Anonymous

Re: More Nealisms... [Re: Swami]
    #1321651 - 02/20/03 10:08 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

How many "Nealists" here wish they had more money? If you TRULY believed in the books as something other than mind candy, you would immediately cash out your meager savings account and give it away to street people to show the universe that you are acting "as if" wealth flowed easily to and from you.

Well, if you think the philosophy behind conversations with god is going out on the street and throwing money to beggars, I suggest you actually read the book.


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InvisibleSwami
Eggshell Walker

Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
Re: More Nealisms... [Re: ]
    #1321897 - 02/20/03 11:25 AM (13 years, 9 months ago)

I suggest you actually read the book.

I have ACTUALLY read all three books. Instead of making faulty assumptions and weak ad hominems, why not ACTUALLY point out the error in my thinking?

How is my example a misinterpretation of acting "as if" one were wealthy?


--------------------



The proof is in the pudding.


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